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03/18/2005 03:01:03 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
What a shame that in a community of photographers, beauty appreciators and nature lovers of all types; it has to be pushed into a category called "Rant" |
Political discussion goes to Rant because it's the only place where people don't have to see the discussion. I do not need to see yet another "Bush is evil, no he's not, yes he is, Bill Clintion is scum" discussion. I live in DC, I get this stuff every day for hours on end. I don't need to see it when I come home.
I have very strong views on the opening of the Alaskan Wildlife Refuge. Those opinions have no relevence or place here. I chose to channel my energy into forums and methodologies that actually stand a chance of making a difference.
Clara
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03/18/2005 03:04:58 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Everyone pick a number, 1 or 2. All those that picked 2, kill those that picked 1.
Now burn the bodies.
Is that the idea? |
Hmmm, I picked 6 ... what am I meant to do now?
What I hate with all this is that sure, back in the 40's, 50's etc people were less wise to the environment. Now we look at all the damage that was done then that can't be undone.
Now we are, supposedly, wiser ..... we still go ahead and do it.
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03/18/2005 05:26:36 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
What a shame that in a community of photographers, beauty appreciators and nature lovers of all types; it has to be pushed into a category called "Rant" (per dictionary.com: "To speak or write in an angry or violent manner; rave.") serious discussion about our wonderful and beautiful biosphere and the current news that it is further being exploited and contaminated, especially after 20 years of purposeful protection.
This, on a smaller level, is whatΓ’s happening in the bigger picture and all around us that creates these problems in the first place. |
Threads about political issues are to be opened in the Rant folder. You've been here long enough, and opened enough political threads, to know this by now. What I think is a shame is that you continue to ignore this relatively simple rule.
-Terry
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03/18/2005 06:46:24 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by moodville:
The article I read about this issue had a quote from someone, I think Bush, that said it was a matter of national security to drill for oil in the refuge. It seems that if you scare people enough you can get pretty much anything approved. It truly is a shame. :( |
Ditto.
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03/18/2005 06:51:16 AM · #30 |
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03/18/2005 07:58:17 AM · #31 |
I heard that if this is approved it will take 10 years for any new Alaskan oil to reach us.
Now if we could just get Chysler to hurry up!
Hydrogen Car
As for all the talk about Bush, scare tactics, money mongers, etc... I think this is a great opportunity for all the Democrats to sling a little mud. You had your chance and we're still sucking up gasoline/oil like it's an unlimited supply. I think both parties have dropped the ball on this one - everyone is scared (politically) to "rock the boat" or make the effort needed to get us moving in the right direction (away from oil consumption).
At least the Hybrids are making some progress...
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03/18/2005 10:56:37 AM · #32 |
Rather then bicker about should we or shouldn't we drill in Alaska, blast SUV owners, and slam Bush for not taking the proper steps (which would probably cripple us economically if he did), why not use this forum to give some good ideas to conserve energy and help solve the problem? We waste so much energy in places where we actually save our selves $$$ to do things just a little smarter.
I will say that anyone that has incandescent light bulbs through out their house/apartment is part of the problem and needs to go to Home Depot today, fork out $50 and replace all the bulbs in your house with those spiral florescent bulbs. Besides lasting about 3 times as long as a standard bulb, they do not get as hot and use about 1/5th the electricity. They put out more light too! In the long run this will save you $$$.
Be sure your house is properly insulated and your windows seal so itΓ’s easier to heat and cool your home. This is as simple as rolling some insulation in your attic and caulking and installing weather stripping around your windows. One $.99 tube of caulk can save you a fortune.
Get a programmable thermostat and set it so the heat/AC does not come on when you are not home or sleeping. This alone will save you big $$$ on your bills considering you are probably sleeping or gone 2/3s of the day. They are as cheap as $30 and will easily pay for themselves in a few months.
Put your outdoor lights on timers or motion detectors rather then leave them on all day and night.
If it makes sense for you, buy a hybrid or electric car. Not only are you saving gas personally, you are also encouraging the auto makers to build more and research other alternatives. I think the Ford Escape hybrid is great and would love to see more cars made with hybrid options, such as the luxury cars and larger trucks.
On your car, make sure your tires are properly inflated. Under inflated tires have a big effect on gas usage. Note that when the weather cooled off, your air pressure probably dropped in your tires. for a few dollars at your locval auto parts store you can buy caps for your tires so you can tell at a glance if they are low.
Spend $30 on an aftermarket washable air filter for your car, and clean it regularly. YouΓ’ll never need to buy an air filter again plus they improve gas mileage and horsepower. After a year it pays for itself.
Synthetic oil doesnΓ’t need to be changed nearly as often as regular oil and might be a good option for your car. Also, modern cars and oils of today last much longer then they use to. If you change your oil every 2500 miles, as your oil shop (who happen to make bigger profits the more often people change their oil) suggests, you are using at least twice as much oil as needed. Most modern cars recommend every 5,000 miles, some even more. Check under your hood or in your owners manual. My mother in-law was changing the oil every 2500 miles on her Infinity until I told her to stop. Right under the hood it said change the oil every 7,500 miles! How much money can you save yourself?
Common sense stuff, run errands on your way home from work rather then make another trip. Carpool, bike, walk, public transportation when you can.
More?
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03/18/2005 03:11:30 PM · #33 |
Those are some very solid and straight forward suggestions louddog. If our government pushed those things you mentioned and people took action, it would help alot.
But itΓ’s going to require a full change in perspective and life style in all industrial nations to avoid the oil catastrophe were looking down the barrel of.
Also, am I the only person who thinks this topic should not be chalked up to "political discussion" and then thrown into "Rant" where probably well over half of DPC cant see it? This is important to everyone. |
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03/18/2005 03:31:49 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Natator:
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Everyone pick a number, 1 or 2. All those that picked 2, kill those that picked 1.
Now burn the bodies.
Is that the idea? |
Hmmm, I picked 6 ... what am I meant to do now?
What I hate with all this is that sure, back in the 40's, 50's etc people were less wise to the environment. Now we look at all the damage that was done then that can't be undone.
Now we are, supposedly, wiser ..... we still go ahead and do it. |
You did not pick a 1 or 2. We must see why...
-you choose not to follow directions, you are a subversive, you die
-you cannot follow directions, you are an idiot, you are chosen to lead
-you can discuss for hours how 6 is a valid option, you are an artist.
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03/18/2005 03:39:02 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by louddog:
Rather then bicker about should we or shouldn't we drill in Alaska, blast SUV owners, and slam Bush for not taking the proper steps (which would probably cripple us economically if he did), why not use this forum to give some good ideas to conserve energy and help solve the problem? We waste so much energy in places where we actually save our selves $$$ to do things just a little smarter.
I will say that anyone that has incandescent light bulbs through out their house/apartment is part of the problem and needs to go to Home Depot today, fork out $50 and replace all the bulbs in your house with those spiral florescent bulbs. Besides lasting about 3 times as long as a standard bulb, they do not get as hot and use about 1/5th the electricity. They put out more light too! In the long run this will save you $$$. |
already done.
Originally posted by louddog:
Be sure your house is properly insulated and your windows seal so itΓ’s easier to heat and cool your home. This is as simple as rolling some insulation in your attic and caulking and installing weather stripping around your windows. One $.99 tube of caulk can save you a fortune. |
Not gonna happen. Most of that i have done. I have a 70 year old uninsulated house. Unless the government or ?? makes changes, it is cheaper for me to burn more enrgy that to insulate my house. (estimates are $6000-8,000).
Originally posted by louddog:
Get a programmable thermostat and set it so the heat/AC does not come on when you are not home or sleeping. This alone will save you big $$$ on your bills considering you are probably sleeping or gone 2/3s of the day. They are as cheap as $30 and will easily pay for themselves in a few months. |
Did that for the furnace. Don't have A/C, so want an energy credit for that!
Originally posted by louddog:
Put your outdoor lights on timers or motion detectors rather then leave them on all day and night. |
already done.
Originally posted by louddog:
If it makes sense for you, buy a hybrid or electric car. Not only are you saving gas personally, you are also encouraging the auto makers to build more and research other alternatives. I think the Ford Escape hybrid is great and would love to see more cars made with hybrid options, such as the luxury cars and larger trucks. |
Again, there are other issues (batteries and the environment for one). The other is economic - the additional purchase price of a hybrid compared to the fule savings (in $) is not justified economically, on a 'my wallet' level.
Originally posted by louddog:
On your car, make sure your tires are properly inflated. Under inflated tires have a big effect on gas usage. Note that when the weather cooled off, your air pressure probably dropped in your tires. for a few dollars at your locval auto parts store you can buy caps for your tires so you can tell at a glance if they are low.
Spend $30 on an aftermarket washable air filter for your car, and clean it regularly. YouΓ’ll never need to buy an air filter again plus they improve gas mileage and horsepower. After a year it pays for itself.
Synthetic oil doesnΓ’t need to be changed nearly as often as regular oil and might be a good option for your car. Also, modern cars and oils of today last much longer then they use to. If you change your oil every 2500 miles, as your oil shop (who happen to make bigger profits the more often people change their oil) suggests, you are using at least twice as much oil as needed. Most modern cars recommend every 5,000 miles, some even more. Check under your hood or in your owners manual. My mother in-law was changing the oil every 2500 miles on her Infinity until I told her to stop. Right under the hood it said change the oil every 7,500 miles! How much money can you save yourself?
Common sense stuff, run errands on your way home from work rather then make another trip. Carpool, bike, walk, public transportation when you can. |
Good ideas all that. Don't idle you car more than absulutely necessary - i see people all the time waiting to pick up their kids at school etc idlling for 10 or 15 minutes...wasted gas, wasted money.
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03/18/2005 09:03:20 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by jbsmithana:
Originally posted by David Ey:
By the way, how are the Alaskan caribou doing since we put in that nasty old pipeline? |
That is an interesting question. The latest research shows that the caribou and polar bears are adversely affected by pipelines and associated roads that connect current drill sites. The "small" area referred to in this legislation is non-contiguous. In fact it lays out wells throughout the entire coastal plain. These wells would then be interconnected by pipelines and roads. The pipelines and roads interrupt caribou migration routes and they will not calve in the vicinity of a drill site. Unfortunately under this administration all scientific data presented by government agencies is Γ’editedΓ’ by admin hacks. Read the data. Do a Google search. |
OK
Caribou Population histories
Central Arctic herd Γ’
1970 Γ’ 3,000
1980 Γ’ 9,000
1983 Γ’ 12,500
1984 Γ’ 13,000
1986 Γ’ 16,000
1988 Γ’ 15,000 (est.)11
1990 Γ’ 25,000 (est.)11
1992 Γ’ 23,400 (est.)11
1995 Γ’ 18,100 (est.)12
Nelchina herd Γ’
1967-68 Γ’ 48,000
1972-73 Γ’ 10,000 4
1981 Γ’ 20,730, (increasing) 5
1984 Γ’ 25,000 7
1986 Γ’ 29,000 9
1987 Γ’ 30,200 10
1990 Γ’ 37,500 (est)11
1993 Γ’ 40,360 (est)11
1996 Γ’ 50,000 (est)13
Wildlife Footnotes
(1) K. Child, 1973: "The reaction of barren ground caribou to simulated pipeline and pipeline crossing structures at Prudhoe Bay, Alaska."
(2) K.R. Witten and R.D. Cameron, 1983:"Population Dynamics of the Central Arctic Herd, 1975-81."
(3) G.N. Bos, 1975: "A partial analysis of the current population status of the Nelchina caribou herd."
(4) Ibid. (Heavy harvest cited as cause of decline.)
(5) K.W Pitcher, 1982: "Big Game Studies, Vol. IV, Caribou, Alaska Department of Fish and Game, Susitna Hydroelectric Project, Phase 1, final report."
(6) R.D Jakimchuk, 1984: "Relationship Between the Central Arctic Caribou Herd and The Trans Alaska Pipeline."
(7) D.R. Carruthers, 1984: "Spring and Fall Movement of The Nelchina Caribou In Relation to The Trans Alaska Pipeline."
(8) L.G. Sopuck and R.D. Jakimchuk, 1986: "Caribou monitoring studies in the Central/ Arctic Region of Alaska, Final Report."
(9) J. Sexton, 1987 Alaska Dept. Fish and Game Personal Communication.
(10) Alaska Department of Fish and Game survey.
(11) Alaska Department of Fish and Game.
(12) P. Valkenburg, Pers. Comm., In Cronin, M.A., et al; "Northern Alaska Oil Fields and Caribou: A Commentary"
(13) Alaska Department of Fish and Game Nelchina Caribou Management and Hunting Opportunity, 1996-97 Flyer.
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03/18/2005 11:46:26 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
OK
Caribou Population histories
Central Arctic herd Γ’
1970 Γ’ 3,000
1980 Γ’ 9,000
1983 Γ’ 12,500
1984 Γ’ 13,000
1986 Γ’ 16,000
1988 Γ’ 15,000 (est.)11
1990 Γ’ 25,000 (est.)11
1992 Γ’ 23,400 (est.)11
1995 Γ’ 18,100 (est.)12
Nelchina herd Γ’
1967-68 Γ’ 48,000
1972-73 Γ’ 10,000 4
1981 Γ’ 20,730, (increasing) 5
1984 Γ’ 25,000 7
1986 Γ’ 29,000 9
1987 Γ’ 30,200 10
1990 Γ’ 37,500 (est)11
1993 Γ’ 40,360 (est)11
1996 Γ’ 50,000 (est)13
Wildlife Footnotes
(1) K. Child, 1973: "The reaction of barren ground caribou to simulated pipeline and pipeline crossing structures at Prudhoe Bay, Alaska."
(2) K.R. Witten and R.D. Cameron, 1983:"Population Dynamics of the Central Arctic Herd, 1975-81."
(3) G.N. Bos, 1975: "A partial analysis of the current population status of the Nelchina caribou herd."
(4) Ibid. (Heavy harvest cited as cause of decline.)
(5) K.W Pitcher, 1982: "Big Game Studies, Vol. IV, Caribou, Alaska Department of Fish and Game, Susitna Hydroelectric Project, Phase 1, final report."
(6) R.D Jakimchuk, 1984: "Relationship Between the Central Arctic Caribou Herd and The Trans Alaska Pipeline."
(7) D.R. Carruthers, 1984: "Spring and Fall Movement of The Nelchina Caribou In Relation to The Trans Alaska Pipeline."
(8) L.G. Sopuck and R.D. Jakimchuk, 1986: "Caribou monitoring studies in the Central/ Arctic Region of Alaska, Final Report."
(9) J. Sexton, 1987 Alaska Dept. Fish and Game Personal Communication.
(10) Alaska Department of Fish and Game survey.
(11) Alaska Department of Fish and Game.
(12) P. Valkenburg, Pers. Comm., In Cronin, M.A., et al; "Northern Alaska Oil Fields and Caribou: A Commentary"
(13) Alaska Department of Fish and Game Nelchina Caribou Management and Hunting Opportunity, 1996-97 Flyer. |
I'm taking Clara's reccomendation and taking this discussion to other forums that have a better chance of actually doing something about the problem. My parting comment is to be careful when most of your data comes from the Alaska F&W. They are a State agency and the State has a horse in this race. Good luck to all in your quest for knowledge.
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