Wedding Photography - I need help!

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

03/17/2005 05:12:37 PM · #1

Hi Everyone,

I photographed a wedding back in October and the mother of the bride is driving me crazy! The photographs came out beautiful and she does not have any complaints about them. However, she said she noticed I was photographing more than what I posted as proofs online. I told her that I did, however, some did not come out and I took duplicates of many images in case someones eyes were closed, etc. She kept insisting that I post online ALL of the proofs so I did. There were 612- which I before had 362. Now she is upset that I will not put some of the ones I did not post online into her album. I told her that I will only put my best work in an album, however, that is not satifying her.

PLEASE let me know what you would do? And is having 250 useless pictures a normal number for a wedding with about 10 hrs of coverage?

THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP!

Carrieanne

rblanton

Canon EOS-10D

03/17/2005 05:18:02 PM · #2

How does your contract read?

03/17/2005 05:19:42 PM · #3

They purchased a contract for unlimited time and photographs. There is nothing in the contract about number of exposures, however, I did write that the average number of photographs are 200-300.

03/17/2005 05:20:16 PM · #4

Tell this lady to go screw. She dosent own the photos you do. Legally they are your property, she has just paid for a bunch of copies. I would never give them any photos that I dint want out there. I too had a simular problem, I simply told them that my shots that didnt turn out are not nescessary. It is true that the lay person probably wouldnt be as critical as the person who shot them, but its our work and there are alot of shots that I throw out. And trhey stay thrown out.... TIM

ccraft

Nikon D200

03/17/2005 05:21:25 PM · #5

I can completely understand why this is driving you nuts. Unfortunately, there's a bit of a psychology when the bride and her mother are "the boss" of something for the first time and that something is a wedding. It can turn some people into bridezilla or mother-of-the-bridezilla. Weddings are the one thing I've avoided because I'm afraid to work for someone with no management skills who is spending money out of their own pocket and may have unrealistic expectations.

I hate to say this, because I'm totally on your side about wanting to include your best work,... but giving her what she wants may shut her up.

Maybe you can put together some sort of estimate/statement in your contract agreement in the future about choosing XX amount of photos in an album. If the bride and her mother sign it, then they know what to expect and won't complain in the future. I'm sure this is easier said than done though.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

03/17/2005 05:24:15 PM · #6

I would love to tell her that =) However, she did pay $1895 for my services (of course she does get a 28 page Zookbinders flush album and two duplicate parent albums with this). So what is the nicest way I can tell her that I refuse to let her select from these images? She's one of those overpowering people that try to nickel and dime. . . I am one of those who try to avoid confrontations.

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

03/17/2005 05:25:15 PM · #7

My advice: Find several dozen pictures of the Bride's mother, take them into Photoshop, add blemishes, age spots and wrinkles to her face, then use Liquify to make her look heavier than she is. Print these photos out and distribute them randomly throughout the album and tell her you went ahead and included the ones she insisted on. :-P

Seriously, timmotyka is right and you should not have caved in to her demands that you post the others as well. Even if you don't specifiy in the contract, you can dictate terms through what you tell her your policy is.

Good luck.

gwphoto

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

03/17/2005 05:25:38 PM · #8

Welcome to the Fun World of Weddings.. You will never please everyone. You should have not posted the bad ones, but told her that they did not come out. YOu have to remember that the CUSTOMER is ALWAYS RIGHT. If you want to stay in business you have to make her happy somehow. If the album is already complete, sellher another one with the photos she wants. Next time Put a limit on the photos. That is to say that you will provide 200 photos for them to choose from. If they want more charge more..

03/17/2005 05:32:00 PM · #9

She wants you to print 250 more images? You specified 200-300 in your contract & provided more than that. Tell her to ante up the additional cash & you'll give her what she wants. Otherwise, she can download & print whatever she wants. If she's willing to pay, take the money & run. Lesson learned. If she won't pay, but continues to harrass you, get a lawyer.

ps I'd be putting everything in writing between you & her from this point on.

03/17/2005 05:33:35 PM · #10

This was the first time a customer has demanded to view all of the proofs, and I only did it to make her happy. I also designed her entire 28 page flush album to later find out that they do not like the groom's mother and had me redesign 80% of it. I even asked her ahead of time to let me know if there are any photographs she do not want in the album. So I just find myself at a point where it feels like there is nothing I can do to please this woman and I do not know how to be kind to her anymore. I have been photographing weddings for quite some time now and have yet to ever have any complaints. I know I do not want to sell those proofs, which is the only way to make her happy, so how do I tell her nicely that I will not do it? How would you tell someone like this?

03/17/2005 05:35:33 PM · #11

"She wants you to print 250 more images? You specified 200-300 in your contract"

No, she just wants them to be available to put in her album. I already designed and redesigned her album and now she wants me to redesign it again, but to include pictures from my "throw-away" pile.

03/17/2005 05:37:28 PM · #12

Did you provide her with nice shots? If so then tell her to go to wal mart photo next time. :)

gwphoto

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

03/17/2005 05:37:35 PM · #13

[quote=clarmore] This was the first time a customer has demanded to view all of the proofs, and I only did it to make her happy. I also designed her entire 28 page flush album to later find out that they do not like the groom's mother and had me redesign 80% of it. I even asked her ahead of time to let me know if there are any photographs she do not want in the album. So I just find myself at a point where it feels like there is nothing I can do to please this woman and I do not know how to be kind to her anymore. I have been photographing weddings for quite some time now and have yet to ever have any complaints. I know I do not want to sell those proofs, which is the only way to make her happy, so how do I tell her nicely that I will not do it? How would you tell someone like this? [/quote

Have you already been paid? If so, then charge her and do what she wants but make sure you make a huge profit.. Just tell her what it will cost... Don't be rude, but be firm.

03/17/2005 05:37:50 PM · #14

You cannot tell someone like that 'nicely'. That's the problem. You'll have to be blunt. Intimidation is how she goes thru life & it's what she understands. If you can't do it, you need a lawyer. It's time to cover your butt. Things like this can blow up easily. Take steps to protect yourself NOW.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

03/17/2005 05:38:21 PM · #15

This is why I shoot on cd and let them post process the lot. :)

deapee

Kodak V803

03/17/2005 05:40:19 PM · #16

I am doing two weddings this summer so far and have been taking tips from a semi-pro, retired veteran that I work with. One of his tips was not to show too many in the end. He said on average 100-150 is just right -- any more and you just end up confusing the bride and her family.

So I think that you should have never shown her the throw-aways in the first place...now she's confused. She starts thinking "well this one is the same, but in this one, her head is this way and in this one it's this way..." etc. You should have just said they were just that, throw-aways and the lighting/focus or whatever was off.

What to do now, I don't know. How much does it affect your future business if she's unhappy?

03/17/2005 05:44:36 PM · #17

wow, as soon as I finished replying to a reply then there is another reply =) thanks everyone!

timmotyka: She has no complaints about my pictures, however, I think she is thinking I am a bad photographer since I am telling her that I have 250 useless photographs.

gwphoto: I have already been paid in full. I did tell her that if she wants me to redesign a page that I already redid for her then I will charge her extra, she has not said anything about that yet. But I have a feeling that she is just getting warmed up.

timmotyka: I would do that, however, my customers love my albums and packages that I offer. Everything is stressfree and easy for them so that there are no worries. They do not have to worry if I take more than the agreed # of photos, if my time is running up, etc. I just do not know how to handle people like this.

03/17/2005 05:51:18 PM · #18

I have found a good way of dealing with people like them. I sit down with bride and groom/ mom and feel them out. I never take a job with people I dont like I have to have a good repore with them. But what hell do I know Im still starting out. :)

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

03/17/2005 05:53:17 PM · #19

I have yet to hear anything from the bride and groom- it's just the mother. I only met with the bride when I took on this job and she was a sweetheart. Just my luck! Now the bride and groom moved to Texas while I am stuck here in Florida with her mother.

rblanton

Canon EOS-10D

03/17/2005 06:01:43 PM · #20

Who signed the contract, the bride or the mother?...

In the end, if anyone has to arbitrate, I would imagine the decision will be made solely on what the contract stipulates. Try to determine what you have agreed to as if you were a neutral party looking at this. It is hard to say which way to go without seeing the entire agreement. Do you specify access to all proofs and thier ability to choose or do you stipulate you will provide access to proofs which meet your artistic standards. If nothing along these lines is stated or implied it would be hard for any mediator to deny them accesss to those photos which were shot under an agreement for unlimited photos.

Message edited by author 2005-03-17 18:02:58.

crabappl3

03/17/2005 06:05:57 PM · #21

Tell the mother that the images that did not make the proof list went to the recycle bin. You do not keep shots that aren't up to your standards on your harddrive. Although it may have appeared that you were taking a lot of photos, many times a split second difference between shots can mean the difference between a blurred body part, closed eyes, akward pose, etc. You only have limited amount of time to work up the images for proof/printing, so those that are not 'A-list' get trashed. You then spend the remainder of your post processing time working up only those images you know will best represent the wedding day. After all the time and money they have put into the wedding, it is your job to best represent all their hard work and effort. Don't appologize, just state it as though it is part of your standard work flow, and that if questioned, no where in the contract does it say anything about providing all images as proofs.

-danny

alanbataar

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Lensbaby 1.0 (The Original)

03/17/2005 06:22:36 PM · #22

I tend to think that a successful path won't include telling the mother anything less than truthful: folks like this probably get lied to all the time (because they're so toxic), and are pretty good at detecting it. Besides, such a thing will do more damage to your reputation than having a word with the customers, who are the bride and groom. Would you rather be known as the "Wedding Photographer That Lies" or the "Photographer That Sticks To The Contract"?

I get the vibe that this family is maybe a little passive agressive, since they're cutting the grooms mother out of the album, which, I think, should have been explicit from the beginning: they owe you that much.

Anyway, I think getting the B&G to rein in Mom is the best bet. Wave the contract under their noses, proclaim yourself a nice person for accomodating their baggage once, and say that any further work by Mom will be billed TO THEM at an outrageous rate.

Definitely consider apending your contract with some verbiage about just this type of behavior.

Good Luck!

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

03/17/2005 06:47:12 PM · #23

Originally posted by alanbataar:

Would you rather be known as the "Wedding Photographer That Lies" or the "Photographer That Sticks To The Contract"?

At this point, my money says you are on Mom's s*%t list, regardless of what you do, but I think the suggestion of getting the bride to deal with Mom is a good one. The poor groom likely has a dark future ahead of him...

mrorange002

Canon EOS-5D

03/17/2005 06:50:39 PM · #24

I think it's best to bend over and take it. So what's your cost? $.29-$.59 each? whatever! Better to be able to use them as a recomendation in the future, than to save a few bucks right now. I give my clients the CD's with the full res images on them, and have had 2 past customers call recently because they scratched their CD's. They insisted they pay for copies, but whatever! I wouldn't charge them for something like that. it cost me less than a dollar to burn and send a new CD to them, and what did i get in return for my $2 investment? Happier customers that will recommend me, and i know i can give potential clients their numbers for references!

So the gist of my blab is:
Print the photos for her, let her know you usually just print the good ones, and tell her your sorry that you didn't provide the ones she wanted.

That's what i would do.

edit: next time someone asks to see ALL of the photos, just tell them you delete the bad ones!

Message edited by author 2005-03-17 18:51:53.