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03/11/2005 05:14:00 AM · #1 |
Very often, during the week-end or otherwise, one has the opportunity to make an outstanding photograph. But darn, non of the challenges fit this magnificent picture. I would like to have a regular monthly "best picture of the month" challenge, so that one can show a good photograph outside any preset theme.
Any comments ?? |
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03/11/2005 05:27:04 AM · #2 |
Originally posted by RUEDISCHMUTZ:
Very often, during the week-end or otherwise, one has the opportunity to make an outstanding photograph. But darn, non of the challenges fit this magnificent picture. I would like to have a regular monthly "best picture of the month" challenge, so that one can show a good photograph outside any preset theme.
Any comments ?? |
Really good idea I support this :) |
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03/11/2005 05:47:31 AM · #3 |
Monthly Free Studies have been hashed out before -- with a great deal of enthusiasm -- but unfortunately the SC voted them down.
I found it a shame then, and still do, that the one set of challenges that provided a regular metric of progress was rejected. :(
Here is one of several threads that have discussed it in the past.
David
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03/11/2005 05:57:03 AM · #4 |
| La la la, wow... that sounds like a good idea ;-) |
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03/11/2005 06:14:45 AM · #5 |
Well it has my vote too, I would love to have monthly free studies and actually I have only been able to participate in one so far since I just joined this site last october. Anyway, I can´t see the harm in having a free study every month, they have been very popular so far.
Anyway, it doesn´t neccesarily have to be EVERY month but to have them regularly has got to make more people want to become members. I for one became a meber specifically because of the october free study so I could enter it, don´t get me wrong, I would have become a member eventually but the free study was the incentive for me personally. Let´s say that you have at least 4-6 free studies a year, i.e. every other month or every three months.
Message edited by author 2005-03-11 06:28:37. |
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03/11/2005 07:38:57 AM · #6 |
| This idea gets my vote. I think we would see some really great shots here. It might be difficult to vote because subject matter and techniques would be from one end of the spectrum to the other, but I'd like to see it fly for a couple of months and see how it goes. |
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03/11/2005 10:07:37 AM · #7 |
Last year we had started to develope a pattern of having a month-long Free Study challenge every quarter (Dec, March, June, Oct). But we got away from that pattern. If memory serves, there was some mention of the Free Study becoming predictable. I never understood why that was a problem. If their is opposition to a "best of the month" challenge, maybe going back to the regular quarterly free study would be a reasonable compromise. I thought it worked well last year.
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03/11/2005 11:52:33 AM · #8 |
First let me state for the record that I'm biased, LOL. I always have loved the free studies, and felt they added to the site.
The issue with "predictable but non-adjacent" free studies was that if the dates for a future Free Study are known it's possible to cheat. For example if it's known that a free study would start on January 1, and someone went on vacation in an exotic location in December, they could set their camera date forward to meet the free study dates.
This scenario is also possible with Speed Challenges if they happen when most expected. That's why they happen at odd dates, and also why they usually don't happen if a thread discussing the possibility is started (word to the wise!).
That objection is irrelevant if there is always a free study open for submission, however. There's simply no incentive to cheat. This "monthly free study" scenario was seen as conficting with the "challenge" nature of the site. It was felt that the free study would take voters away from voting the weekly challenges, since voting them all is a big time commitment.
I know that the Free studies have a lot of support in the community. Just thought I'd run thru some of the logic as to why they don't happen regularly.
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03/11/2005 11:56:48 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
First let me state for the record that I'm biased, LOL. I always have loved the free studies, and felt they added to the site.
The issue with "predictable but non-adjacent" free studies was that if the dates for a future Free Study are known it's possible to cheat. For example if it's known that a free study would start on January 1, and someone went on vacation in an exotic location in December, they could set their camera date forward to meet the free study dates.
This scenario is also possible with Speed Challenges if they happen when most expected. That's why they happen at odd dates, and also why they usually don't happen if a thread discussing the possibility is started (word to the wise!).
That objection is irrelevant if there is always a free study open for submission, however. There's simply no incentive to cheat. This "monthly free study" scenario was seen as conficting with the "challenge" nature of the site. It was felt that the free study would take voters away from voting the weekly challenges, since voting them all is a big time commitment.
I know that the Free studies have a lot of support in the community. Just thought I'd run thru some of the logic as to why they don't happen regularly. |
so watch out Guys and Galls, there is one on its way soon, and will be appearing at a screen near you..... |
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03/11/2005 12:04:44 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
First let me state for the record that I'm biased, LOL. I always have loved the free studies, and felt they added to the site.
The issue with "predictable but non-adjacent" free studies was that if the dates for a future Free Study are known it's possible to cheat. For example if it's known that a free study would start on January 1, and someone went on vacation in an exotic location in December, they could set their camera date forward to meet the free study dates.
This scenario is also possible with Speed Challenges if they happen when most expected. That's why they happen at odd dates, and also why they usually don't happen if a thread discussing the possibility is started (word to the wise!).
That objection is irrelevant if there is always a free study open for submission, however. There's simply no incentive to cheat. This "monthly free study" scenario was seen as conficting with the "challenge" nature of the site. It was felt that the free study would take voters away from voting the weekly challenges, since voting them all is a big time commitment.
I know that the Free studies have a lot of support in the community. Just thought I'd run thru some of the logic as to why they don't happen regularly. |
I understand that reasoning, but you could also argue that having monthly free study challenges would KEEP more involved members who tend to split their energies between DPC and another site that allows freer rein to the creative impulse. Personally, I'd like to see 3 challenges every week; the two we already have PLUS a free study.
Robt.
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03/11/2005 12:45:48 PM · #11 |
@ bear_music:
Personally, I agree wholeheartedly. And since this community continues to grow, "losing votes" to a free study isn't as big a deal. In the days when we only got 120-150 votes per image, it was a big deal.
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03/11/2005 01:12:12 PM · #12 |
I, too, think the Free Studies are the perfect vehicle for better pictures. Re-introducing it and making it a regular feature would provide a much needed focus on quality and inherent appeal instead of on the dreaded, overriding topical criteria, which can divert from this.
I would welcome the balance.
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03/11/2005 01:19:15 PM · #13 |
I too, would like to see some Open Challenges, however I find that Themed Challenges firstly help channel my mind to a problem, and secondly try to stimulate creativity as I try a be different.
My fear of an Open Challenge is that I would have a tendency to stick with the familiar rather than pushing the metaphorical boat out.
Message edited by author 2005-03-11 13:35:58. |
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03/11/2005 01:48:42 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Artan:
I too, would like to see some Open Challenges, however I find that Themed Challenges firstly help channel my mind to a problem, and secondly try to stimulate creativity as I try a be different.
My fear of an Open Challenge is that I would have a tendency to stick with the familiar rather than pushing the metaphorical boat out. |
Oddly enough, I feel the exact opposite; for me, the themed challenges are perhaps technically somewhat more demanding but they do not stimulate me artistically for the most part. They are exercises is creative problem solving, not in "creation". Free studies, for me, allow me to go off on any tangent that strikes my fancy, and they "free" the artist in me.
Robt.
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03/11/2005 02:02:30 PM · #15 |
If there were monthly free studies, I would become a paying member.
Mostly so I could vote on the other free studies, which I love looking at. Because there are no constraints I see great photos that use a variety of different techniques - the variety is refreshing after going through a regular challenge and trying to rate the same subject and framing over and over again.
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03/11/2005 02:37:47 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
... the themed challenges are perhaps technically somewhat more demanding but they do not stimulate me artistically for the most part. |
Which is going to be more helpful as a learning tool for beginner and intermediate level photogs-- technically demanding or artistically stimulateing?
Originally posted by bear_music:
... Free studies, for me, allow me to go off on any tangent that strikes my fancy, and they "free" the artist in me. |
There are many, many sites on the internet that offer free study type competitions, and even more that are very loosely themed around general categories. The narrower themes, and the ever-changing variety of themes, here are what set dpc apart from the others places where you can enter digital images.
If you want a "playground for artists with cameras" have your fill from the smorgasboard that are out there waiting for you. But please don't try to make this place like the rest of them.
Message edited by author 2005-03-11 14:40:30.
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03/11/2005 02:46:42 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by bear_music:
... the themed challenges are perhaps technically somewhat more demanding but they do not stimulate me artistically for the most part. |
Which is going to be more helpful as a learning tool for beginner and intermediate level photogs-- technically demanding or artistically stimulateing?
Originally posted by bear_music:
... Free studies, for me, allow me to go off on any tangent that strikes my fancy, and they "free" the artist in me. |
There are many, many sites on the internet that offer free study type competitions, and even more that are very loosely themed around general categories. The narrower themes, and the ever-changing variety of themes, here are what set dpc apart from the others places where you can enter digital images.
If you want a "playground for artists with cameras" have your fill from the smorgasboard that are out there waiting for you. But please don't try to make this place like the rest of them. |
Cool, you really, really seem to have it in for me lately. I've explained before, very patiently, that I'm happy with the site as it is. I quite agree with you that themed challenges are a great learning tool. I've said so before. So would free studies be a great learnimg tool, given the limitations of our rules. The main thing that sets us apart from the other sites, really, is the rulesets we are limited to.
As I explained below, it's possible the inclusion of more free studies would focus people MORE on DPC. If I want to do "real" photography (not digital manipulation) this is the best place I have found to practice it. Why would it be so contrary to the spirit of this place to include more challenges that incorporate the same rulesets but free up the creative eye to whatever happens to come along in the challenge timeframe? It's not as if we'd ELIMINATE the other challenges, just add a different element to the mix.
It's beginning to bug me that you're painting me as some sort of agent-for-change, because I'm NOT; I'm just one more viewpoint, and a person who has come to love the DPC community. And, based on the thread here, I'm not alone anyway.
Sheesh.
Robt.
Message edited by author 2005-03-11 14:48:09.
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03/11/2005 03:08:51 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
... The issue with "predictable but non-adjacent" free studies was that if the dates for a future Free Study are known it's possible to cheat. For example if it's known that a free study would start on January 1, and someone went on vacation in an exotic location in December, they could set their camera date forward to meet the free study dates.
This scenario is also possible with Speed Challenges if they happen when most expected. That's why they happen at odd dates, and also why they usually don't happen if a thread discussing the possibility is started (word to the wise!). ... |
Am I the only one that resents being treated as I am going to start cheating if the powers that be don't keep a watchful eye on me? Yes there is a hypothetical situation in which someone with a distinct lack of ethics could possibly cheat -- but that is alwasy the case, and no set or rules, guidelines or policies is going to change that. Putting everyone into the same policy prison is not the answer.
Originally posted by kirbic:
... That objection is irrelevant if there is always a free study open for submission, however. There's simply no incentive to cheat. This "monthly free study" scenario was seen as conficting with the "challenge" nature of the site. ... |
I am one of those that feels adjacent free studies would not be overly beneficial to the community. Why? Because it would pull a lot of talent from participating in the challenges -- both with submitting and voting. However, a regular metric of progress is essential to growth -- and the regularly scheduled, but unpredictably themed challenges just do not offer that.
Originally posted by kirbic:
... It was felt that the free study would take voters away from voting the weekly challenges, since voting them all is a big time commitment. ... |
I think the plethera of Master's and Invitational challenges we had previously showed this to not be the case -- if anything, the participation of the long-term members was increased. Although I don't have access to the stats to see if my observations are completely accurate or just my perspective of the events.
Originally posted by kirbic:
... I know that the Free studies have a lot of support in the community. Just thought I'd run thru some of the logic as to why they don't happen regularly. |
Thank you for your support of the idea, you have argued quite well for them in previous threads and I assume the SC private threads -- it is appreciated.
I realize you were merely listing the logic and not laying claim to holding that reasoning as your own -- I hope you don't mind my responding to each as if my responses were directly to you.
David
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03/11/2005 03:59:51 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
Cool, you really, really seem to have it in for me lately. |
Don't feel like the lone stranger on that point. I "have it in for" anyone who has not been here very long but thinks that because they are a more accomplished photographer than most of us, that they know what's best for the site. That is my perception of you from what I have seen of your forum posts, the ones I've read at least. I also pick on the one's who want to move us away from photography and into the field of digital art. There have been others that I've "had it in for", come and gone before you. And don't take it all too personally. My pontificating is not just aimed at you. There is a constant flow of new users to this site. I feel it is important to let them know that this is not just another everyphotosite.com. It's unique. I can't say from first hand experience but I am forming a pretty firm opinion that it is very, very difficult for people with an extensive background in photography, and perhaps a successful career under their belt, to come here and not feel like they "know it all" about what's best for the site because the rest us are not on their level technically or experience wise.
Originally posted by bear_music:
It's beginning to bug me that you're painting me as some sort of agent-for-change, because I'm NOT; I'm just one more viewpoint, and a person who has come to love the DPC community. And, based on the thread here, I'm not alone anyway. |
Don't let it bug you too much. Remember, it's not real life, just the internet. And if you love this site, please help fight to preserve it. That would tickle me no end.
Originally posted by bear_music:
... The main thing that sets us apart from the other sites, really, is the rulesets we are limited to. ... |
Anonmyity is another key element of the challenges here, and it seems that it is always under attack. Some people don't really appreciate how important maintaining anonymity is to keeping the challenges the way they are. I "have it in" for them too.
If you look back to an earlier post you'll see that I am not totally opposed to Free Study challenges either, but I will admit I feel a stronger desire to keep what we have than to add a more artistically stimulating experience to it.
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03/11/2005 04:08:47 PM · #20 |
I would also like to back the idea of regular free studies. I often have images that I'm proud of but that don't fit the challenges and I'd like to see how they rate.
In general I don't have the time to go out specially to shoot something for a challenge so I submit when I have something appropriate. Free studies would make it easier for me to take part more regularly.
John
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03/11/2005 07:12:06 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by bear_music:
Cool, you really, really seem to have it in for me lately. |
Don't feel like the lone stranger on that point. I "have it in for" anyone who has not been here very long but thinks that because they are a more accomplished photographer than most of us, that they know what's best for the site. |
That's where I take exception to your tone, cool. I have never claimed I "know what's best for the site", nor even implied it. I am at pains to state that mine is only one voice. And is my opinion somehow worth less because I have only been here about 3 months? I have posted and commented a little over 2,000 times, I have entered nearly all the challenges, I have unsparingly contributed my own personal perspective and experience to the site, and I believe I deserve more respect than you are granting me. I repeat, I'M ONLY ONE VOICE; I am not a threat to you, nor to "your" site, which is now "my" site as well...
Robt.
Message edited by author 2005-03-11 19:14:23.
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03/11/2005 07:14:27 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
@ bear_music:
Personally, I agree wholeheartedly. And since this community continues to grow, "losing votes" to a free study isn't as big a deal. In the days when we only got 120-150 votes per image, it was a big deal. |
...but losing comments is, and we have seen that comments per image runs inversely to number of entries up for voting, especially during Free Studies.
EDITED TO ADD: I want to make it clear that I very much like Free Studies, and I want them to continue -- but my opinion is they should continue to be an occasional and somewhat randomly occuring treat, not a regularly-scheduled occurrence.
-Terry
Message edited by author 2005-03-11 19:19:11.
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03/11/2005 09:26:33 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
Oddly enough, I feel the exact opposite; for me, the themed challenges are perhaps technically somewhat more demanding but they do not stimulate me artistically for the most part. They are exercises is creative problem solving, not in "creation". Free studies, for me, allow me to go off on any tangent that strikes my fancy, and they "free" the artist in me. |
Doesn't this post place a higher value on "artistically stimulating" over the more instructive "technically demanding"? Aren't you saying that what is proposed in the thread, and which stikres your fancy, is more desirable than what we already have in the normal weekly challenges? My perception is that if such a valuation became the norm, we would lose something from what dpc has been in the past. That's not a threat to me, but to the site, the ongoing community.
It is precisely because you have so "unsparingly" immersed yourself into the community that I have no trouble at all in taking you at your word when you say you love the site. Don't get hung up on my tone, which you take exception to, or any perceived disrespect to you as a person. Anyone who enters into a marriage with the intent of changing a spouse into something they are not will eventually fail. You must understand and accept your partner for what it is to succeed. As I said before- "if you love this site, please help fight to preserve it."
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03/11/2005 09:38:18 PM · #24 |
Nevertheless your tone is disrespectful and chiding, and I find it consistently so. I could accept your message a lot more easily if it weren' couched in "us or them" terms.
Robt.
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03/11/2005 09:57:24 PM · #25 |
Not sure what people might think of this but what about a free study month. The site would start a month off at random and each week of that month people would submit a free study photo. It might help clear our heads of thinking in specific topics and let us do our own thing for a month.
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