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02/25/2005 07:54:15 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by capgal:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Not to let facts get in the way, but please see my post from 7:33:27 PM in this thread regarding selection tools and borders.
-Terry |
So it is legal to use the selection tool, to make a solid border in basic-editing? I assumed it was not after reading the rules, and thought there must be some other way to do so.
Deb |
It is legal, but only for purposes of creating a border.
Expanding the canvas is easier, though.
-Terry
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02/25/2005 07:55:41 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by capgal:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Not to let facts get in the way, but please see my post from 7:33:27 PM in this thread regarding selection tools and borders.
-Terry |
So it is legal to use the selection tool, to make a solid border in basic-editing? I assumed it was not after reading the rules, and thought there must be some other way to do so.
Deb |
It is legal, but only for purposes of creating a border.
Expanding the canvas is easier, though.
-Terry |
Thanks Terry,
I'm a newbie, and the only way I could figure to make a border was with the selection tool. I'll have to try it the "easy way" next time, lol
Deb |
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02/25/2005 08:04:48 PM · #53 |
I just don't get it, to me the rules are very clear..and if you questioned the borders rule then don't do it - a border that makes or breaks an image isn't a good image anyway.
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02/25/2005 08:05:17 PM · #54 |
i leave ya'll with this i baught a digital camera to be able to do more with my images i didn't intruprate a pattern as a clip art since i though clip art would be dragged over the image not add to it in a boarder like manner....my bad......
here is my point digital makes it easer for us to share it makes it easer for us to see eachothers minds eyes....but with this beauty of digital comes it plague and that is in our own sight.....i may see something diffrent from u we are entitled to our diffrences.....i just might have a longing (in a corprate site like this) for some sort of a uniformity to the rules here or things that i see may be rejected and with that rejection comes a small degree but yet a very real hurt...that feeling that is there in your gut and makes u think gosh if only i knew.......
that was the cause of this thread and that is what my goal here was....as crazy as it sounds some others out there will be hurt slightly in the future....
if u are tied to something then u feel it when it fails and u feel as if u fail.......
then let us try to keep this from happening to others and in this comuntiy there are was of doing that to make it more uniform is 1 and to clearly define artistic boundries is another.....
once that is done i think everyone here will have alot better time of it and much more than that come to a greater love of what they can do......if only they know what they are limited to........
jimmi hendrix was not limited he creat a new feeling a new art to guitar and now we all strive to mimic him or be like him as much as possible......
but before him there was not alway a soild body guitar and that would have greatly limited his style.......
if we are to limit more and more let us at least define those limits as clearly as possible and in doing so we all will gain our own feel with in these new limits if we are left to our own devise things will get out of hand and ppl. will be struck deep with pain when something they spent time on and worked hard on is said to be unqoulable..........my image was like that i took it very really and as funny as it is whering a red clown wig i got from holloween made me for 1 moment feel like i was creating something new i was bring back jimmi in the best way i could and at the same time i was bring out a side of my photography that i liked a new thing.....a shadow of things to come.........(if its not too very clishay)
it is with that i leave this thread i put a 3pixel BD on an image that was apart of me and for that to be DQed also took the wind out of apart of me it hurt in a deep way......
IF I HAD ONLY KNOWN
_brando_
Message edited by author 2005-02-25 20:05:51.
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02/25/2005 08:10:00 PM · #55 |
There are many other sites where the things you are wanting to do are allowed.
Barbara
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02/25/2005 08:23:18 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by BAMartin:
There are many other sites where the things you are wanting to do are allowed.
Barbara |
its not that i want to make illegal boarders i just would like to know all the stuff i can't do so i may make better images within the rules.
my only point is please i could not begg more, define the rules more clearly so that next time i go to do anything to an image i may know exactly what i can do.....
don't get me wrong i am a purest i shoot 4x5 for crying out loud.....but digitaly things are so open........
in a darkroom everything u do is an art of sorts but on a computer it is stuff that a 3yearold could do........
so i would just like to know what my 3yearold mind is limited to.....
and i hope it becomes more clear in the future.....
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02/25/2005 08:41:13 PM · #57 |
Turn on your brain and try using your Shift key once in a while. If you think about it for a mere moment, you will see that you were obviously pushing the limits of the rules. If you have to inspect the rules letter-by-letter to make sure you aren't breaking them, then you are pushing it. That's fine, of course, as long as you expect to get DQ'd once in a while. The rules clearly mentioned the "spirit" of the law, and you clearly pushed that limit. The SC thought it was too far; it happens. No, they don't need to be re-written to be clearer. They are quite clear as it is. If you are going to search for a loophole to fit in what is very obviously a stretch on the rules, you can expect to be questioned sometimes. Just use your mind a little.
And your Shift key.
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02/25/2005 09:32:24 PM · #58 |
I have a LOT of experience "writing rules". It's simply not possible to write concise, readable rules that cover in detail every possible situation. It's counteproductive even to try; the more detailed the rules get, the more justified is the claim "It's not forbidden, so it's allowed!"
If more people paid attentiuon to the OBVIOUS spirit of the rules, we'd have a lot fewer problems. If we need a rule change right now, it is to have a prologue to the rules spelling out in straightforward terms the philosophy behind the rules.
It's quite clear that the rules in basic editing will NOT allow any changes to the image that involve altering specific portions of the image. It's really a stretch to say that a border is "not part of the image" and therefore is not covered by the rules. It's clear the intention, or spirit, of the rules does not allow patterned borders.
I fail to see why this is a problem.
But maybe that's just me...
In sailboat racing, we have Rules and we have the Appendix of Decisions. In the law we have the statutes and the precedents and appeals, as another example. We are workign towards something similar here, where DQ'd images will be available for study along with the statement of why they were DQ'd. This would go a long way towards ameliorating this situation.
Robt.
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02/25/2005 09:56:57 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by fotodude:
Originally posted by BAMartin:
There are many other sites where the things you are wanting to do are allowed.
Barbara |
its not that i want to make illegal boarders i just would like to know all the stuff i can't do so i may make better images within the rules.
my only point is please i could not begg more, define the rules more clearly so that next time i go to do anything to an image i may know exactly what i can do.....
don't get me wrong i am a purest i shoot 4x5 for crying out loud.....but digitaly things are so open........
in a darkroom everything u do is an art of sorts but on a computer it is stuff that a 3yearold could do........
so i would just like to know what my 3yearold mind is limited to.....
and i hope it becomes more clear in the future..... |
It doesn't matter if you own a 4X5 or 110, it is the idea of staying within the rules, whether stated or implied. If you want to push the rules you pay the price. Drive down the highway at 15 miles over the speed limit for 1 hour, if you get caught for speeding that is the price you pay for exceeding the rules. Expect to pay the price if your interpretation is different that the law officer's. |
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02/25/2005 11:14:32 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
A "pattern" is created artwork or elements, which is not permitted in the rules. Especially in a Basic Rules challenge, the border should be used to enhance or set off the image from the gray background, not to become a "major" element or component of the piece itself. |
How is the minor colored dots in this image a major element but the artifically created tryptych in this shot:
not a major element? Sorry to bring it up again BradP...
Edited to add: Sorry I didn't read far enough into the discussion to see this already brought up. I do understand that BradP's shot was in advanced editing and the current shot up for discussion is in basic, but the key words herd are major element...
Message edited by author 2005-02-25 23:19:19.
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02/25/2005 11:45:11 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
It is not possible to write the rules in such a way as to cover every possible idea and method someone might use to circumvent their intended goal. |
Definition taken from the NFL "32. Unsportsmanlike Conduct: Any act contrary to the generally understood principles of sportsmanship."
A good comparison imho, for both interpretation and the scope of how the rules are applied. |
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02/26/2005 12:21:13 AM · #62 |
Originally posted by garrywhite2:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
It is not possible to write the rules in such a way as to cover every possible idea and method someone might use to circumvent their intended goal. |
Definition taken from the NFL "32. Unsportsmanlike Conduct: Any act contrary to the generally understood principles of sportsmanship."
A good comparison imho, for both interpretation and the scope of how the rules are applied. |
Good one gary...
I seem to recall one of those catchall phrases too from my working environment...any act or omission unbecoming an officer....
Essentially, if you think you may be pushing the envelope, its best to check before the fact.
Just an opinion...
Ray |
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02/26/2005 01:20:07 AM · #63 |
to reiterate what someone else said earlier in this thread, you can always ask before you submit it if you feel the rules are "unclear". I personally log into DPC Fanatics and ask some of the people that are online. Someone is pretty much around 24/7, website is HERE. My last submission, for the Bridges challenge, I logged in and asked if DuoTone was allowed in Basic editing.
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02/26/2005 12:10:11 PM · #64 |
I resolve not to edit a single picture i take for a challenge at all i will be happy as i have been in the past with my low scores if the shot is not how i took it then i will not even bother to submit it....
I think it actualy might help me to become a better photog.
my resolve is as follows (and posting after this will NOT change my mind)--
-I have made up my mind to not edit even in the least any image that i am to submit to a challenge here at DPC, if it needs brightness or contrast tough i am a bad photographer for not having shot it perfact the frist time if it need a boarder then it shall not have 1.
I do not want to be DQed again so i will only downsize (resample) the images so they are sutitble for the site restrictions.
Under my rule the only adjustments to be made to my image are a simple B&W convertion.
NO other adjustments what so ever are allowed.
If i in anyway stray from MY OWN statement here then i will not submit to a challenge for 1 mounth after.-
end of statement
(its not like i've got a hope of winning anyway all i ask for is alittle respect as a photographer as goofy as that is at 16)
by doing this i will at least preserve my photographic integrety............
no need to post here further
(this applies to me only [no duh] and applies to both basic and advanced)
_bran(back to the basics)do_
note since i shoot alot in raw: any conversions to be made before opening the raw file will not be done, i will not change the white balence and i will not aulter the fstop taken at.
Message edited by author 2005-02-26 12:15:15.
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02/26/2005 12:18:46 PM · #65 |
Way to be a drama queen fotodude. This is like "if I can't win I am taking my ball and going home". You are sounding more and more like a spoiled child with every post. I thought my 10 year old was pouty.....
Just saying
Barbara
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02/26/2005 12:26:38 PM · #66 |
| I guess you'll show us, then. |
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02/26/2005 12:31:17 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by mk:
I guess you'll show us, then. |
not really but i won't get DQed..........
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02/26/2005 12:35:21 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by fotodude:
Originally posted by mk:
I guess you'll show us, then. |
not really but i won't get DQed.......... |
You still need to make sure your camera clock is accurate! The date is important, of course, but so is the clock, especially if you are photographing and submitting in the 11th hour. |
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02/26/2005 12:36:40 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by fotodude:
Originally posted by mk:
I guess you'll show us, then. |
not really but i won't get DQed.......... |
You state that your intention is to become a better photographer, correct? You got DQ'd for this challenge. Many people have said your photo was great, and given you positive feedback. Regardless of the DQ or the stupid border issue, it was a great photo, and you put a lot of thought and heart into it. If you are not out to win a ribbon, then this DQ should not be a huge issue to you.
Keep doing what you've been doing, and don't let this tiny, miniscule issue get you down. Worse things can, and will happen as you go through life. Use this experience as a stepping stone, not a barrier in your path.
Deb |
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02/26/2005 12:41:48 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by capgal:
Originally posted by fotodude:
Originally posted by mk:
I guess you'll show us, then. |
not really but i won't get DQed.......... |
You state that your intention is to become a better photographer, correct? You got DQ'd for this challenge. Many people have said your photo was great, and given you positive feedback. Regardless of the DQ or the stupid border issue, it was a great photo, and you put a lot of thought and heart into it. If you are not out to win a ribbon, then this DQ should not be a huge issue to you.
Keep doing what you've been doing, and don't let this tiny, miniscule issue get you down. Worse things can, and will happen as you go through life. Use this experience as a stepping stone, not a barrier in your path.
Deb |
my intention is to become a better photg.......i gess but that would be by not relying on any editing otherwise i can stay right where i am at all day and be perfactly confortable
what i have been doing is aperiantly enough to get me dqed so if i keep doing that then i will keep getting dqed.....?
worse things already have happened and life is by no means fun or entertaining........this just hurts on top of all of that
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02/26/2005 12:44:44 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by nshapiro:
Originally posted by fotodude:
Originally posted by mk:
I guess you'll show us, then. |
not really but i won't get DQed.......... |
You still need to make sure your camera clock is accurate! The date is important, of course, but so is the clock, especially if you are photographing and submitting in the 11th hour. |
lol, i really should.....forgot i'm setting up for that now......
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02/26/2005 02:21:19 PM · #72 |
Hey fotodude, don't stress about this, its not THAT big of a deal... part of being a good photographer is the editing. With film the editing was done in the darkroom, with digital its done in photoshop. Just do like I mentioned earlier, check with DPC fanatics if you have a question or post a question here and someone would be more than happy to help you. You are just 16, you have years and years to become cynical, don't start now :o)
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