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02/20/2005 09:52:55 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by ButterflySis:
[quote=IceRock] if you send raw file, it is same as giving the picture !!!! |
But if you rank in the top 10 of a challenge you have to send the full-size file anyway. [/quote
I will send my raw file if I get 200-500 $ for it, this is just a game here so I really don't care about top 10, it mast be really fool who send his raw file whit out getting payment for his raw file , it mast be different system to find out if picture is correct ! |
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02/20/2005 09:52:57 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by ButterflySis:
I was sort of wondering about the batch processing myself. Even when I batch process my jpeg snapshots (kids' b-day parties, etc.) they don't always come out right. Each image is different and requires different tweaking. It's okay if they are just snapshots but otherwise I'd think working on them individually would be the way to go. |
I agree. If you have a CD full of edited JPG's and you want to get some 4x6's done...you take the CD to walmart for printing. You make sure you tell them that you don't want the 'auto correcting' option, right? Because not every image needs the same tweaking...your files are ready for print as is.
Seriously, anyone who is in question should read ken rockwell's page //www.kenrockwell.com/tech/raw.htm and also ... Petteri Sulonen's thoughts on it (which favors raw) here //194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/How_to/o_RAW_workflow/_RAW_workflow.html
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02/20/2005 09:54:08 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
What about 12 bit stored as 16 bit? |
I'm pretty sure that even stored as 16-bit, images only hold 12-bits of data.
Message edited by author 2005-02-20 09:54:32.
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02/20/2005 10:00:25 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by deapee:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
What about 12 bit stored as 16 bit? |
I'm pretty sure that even stored as 16-bit, images only hold 12-bits of data. |
I still don't see how 8 bits of data can preserve 12 bit precision (as stated in the two articles). I will have to look for more info.
If you never or almost never have to adjust your images then jpeg is the way to go.
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02/20/2005 10:03:01 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by IceRock:
I will send my raw file if I get 200-500 $ for it, this is just a game here so I really don't care about top 10, it mast be really fool who send his raw file whit out getting payment for his raw file , it mast be different system to find out if picture is correct ! |
That's fine that you feel that way. I was just pointing out that you are expected to send the file. As being discussed, there doesn't seem to be a huge difference in JPEG and RAW so it wouldn't matter what you send as proof because both would be usuable if someone wanted to use it. I confess, I don't exactly like having to send anyone my originals - JPEGs or otherwise.
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02/20/2005 10:03:20 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by deapee:
Originally posted by cghubbell:
As for clogging the workflow, you need to use a professional workflow tool to make shooting RAW efficient. I can process a batch of 80 raw images in a few minutes using Bibble. That's much faster than individual JPEG editing in GIMP or Picture Project. |
If you're batch processing your files, and not tweaking each shot one by one, you're defeating the purpose of using RAW and all that memory anyway. The same processing that your RAW converter is doing, you could have saved the time and had the camera do for you! If you're exposing correctly, and if your white balance is correct there's really no need for RAW.
Not to mention, slight color casts are easily fixable from a JPG in PS. You can't really change exposure, although the RAW software makes it seem like you can. You can get the same effect in PS for the most part...the only difference there is that you might be able to restore some highlights in a RAW file that you couldn't in JPG. |
Bibble (and C1, and even photoshop, less conveniently) lets you work with a directory of images, setting the white balance on 80 images is no slower than clicking on a white area of each image without needing a single intervening click beyond selecting the photo (actually, to do 80 individual images takes 160 clicks to be exact--pick image, pick white area, pick image, pick white area...). You can crop, adjust exposure, adjust highlight recovery, color balance, curves, etc., all without opening or saving a single image. You just click on the thumbnail once and you are working with a live preview.
If all the shots were from the same setting and lighting, you can adjust one and copy the settings to the other 79 all at once with a single "copy" and paste.
Then when you are done tweaking, which for color, you can drop all "80" (in this example) to a batch queue for processing, and the settings will be applied, in the background, to the image and saved per the batch queue settings (e.g., into a subfolder called processed).
I have a processed batch queue, a DPC batch queue, which resizes to 640x640 max, a index batch queue which saves a small version of each original and lets me archive and delete the bad ones that I'll never use while keeping a small on-disc record of it in a subfolder.
The workflow in Bibble is the best I've seen. I tried C1 and it was similar, but I didn't take to the interface as easily as I did Bibble.
Bibble, unlike my old friend Breezebrowser, saves the adjustments you make in a sidecar file next to your RAW file, so you can archive them together, or go back later and change them without having to start over (which Breezebrowser makes you do). C1 and PS CS do this as well. I know PS CS has batch operations too, but no interface I've seen does this as smoothly as Bibble. (Disclaimer: Bibble has bugs though. Not 100% stable, crashes more than any software I own. But they'll get there. There's a free trial if you want to try it.)
Message edited by author 2005-02-20 10:05:19. |
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02/20/2005 10:04:10 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by IceRock:
Originally posted by ButterflySis:
[quote=IceRock] if you send raw file, it is same as giving the picture !!!! |
But if you rank in the top 10 of a challenge you have to send the full-size file anyway. [/quote
I will send my raw file if I get 200-500 $ for it, this is just a game here so I really don't care about top 10, it mast be really fool who send his raw file whit out getting payment for his raw file , it mast be different system to find out if picture is correct ! |
If you finish in the top 5 of any challenge, or your entry is otherwise called into question, you may be asked to submit your original straight from camera file and list any editing steps used to create your submission. Note that every time you enter a challenge, you are checking a box that says you agree to this. If you do not agree to this, then you should not be entering.
That original is only used by Site Council to verify that your entry was created legally. We do not use it for any other purpose.
-Terry
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02/20/2005 10:04:51 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by deapee:
I agree. If you have a CD full of edited JPG's and you want to get some 4x6's done...you take the CD to walmart for printing. You make sure you tell them that you don't want the 'auto correcting' option, right? Because not every image needs the same tweaking...your files are ready for print as is.
Seriously, anyone who is in question should read ken rockwell's page //www.kenrockwell.com/tech/raw.htm and also ... Petteri Sulonen's thoughts on it (which favors raw) here //194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/How_to/o_RAW_workflow/_RAW_workflow.html |
Well, not Walmart, but yes, you are correct. ;-) I don't want any "correcting" done because I've got them how I like them.
I've skimmed both links. Interesting read. Thanks.
Jen
P.S. Sorry, Mike, for hijacking a bit. :-)
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02/20/2005 10:06:17 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
If you finish in the top 5 of any challenge, or your entry is otherwise called into question, you may be asked to submit your original straight from camera file and list any editing steps used to create your submission. Note that every time you enter a challenge, you are checking a box that says you agree to this. If you do not agree to this, then you should not be entering.
That original is only used by Site Council to verify that your entry was created legally. We do not use it for any other purpose.
-Terry |
Oops, Top 5...I was thinking 10. Whatever.
Just curious, (getting off track again) what do you do with the files after you've verified them?
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02/20/2005 10:16:53 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by ButterflySis:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
If you finish in the top 5 of any challenge, or your entry is otherwise called into question, you may be asked to submit your original straight from camera file and list any editing steps used to create your submission. Note that every time you enter a challenge, you are checking a box that says you agree to this. If you do not agree to this, then you should not be entering.
That original is only used by Site Council to verify that your entry was created legally. We do not use it for any other purpose.
-Terry |
Oops, Top 5...I was thinking 10. Whatever.
Just curious, (getting off track again) what do you do with the files after you've verified them? |
They remain on file as a reference. Many times we need to review historical DQs and validations when we are working on current challenges.
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02/20/2005 10:18:50 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by nshapiro:
If all the shots were from the same setting and lighting, you can adjust one and copy the settings to the other 79 all at once with a single "copy" and paste. |
You're missing my point. Sure, you could tweak the white balance and process the whole batch...or you could just set your white balance in the first place and be done with it and use up a lot less space.
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02/20/2005 10:21:11 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by deapee:
Originally posted by nshapiro:
If all the shots were from the same setting and lighting, you can adjust one and copy the settings to the other 79 all at once with a single "copy" and paste. |
You're missing my point. Sure, you could tweak the white balance and process the whole batch...or you could just set your white balance in the first place and be done with it and use up a lot less space. |
For studio shots where the lighting is under your control I tend to agree, however when your dealing with mixed lighting or changing conditions RAW gives you the control after the fact to compensate.
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02/20/2005 10:24:13 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
They remain on file as a reference. Many times we need to review historical DQs and validations when we are working on current challenges. |
:-(
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02/20/2005 10:24:22 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
For studio shots where the lighting is under your control I tend to agree, however when your dealing with mixed lighting or changing conditions RAW gives you the control after the fact to compensate. |
Like I said earlier, if you can properly set your white balance, I see no advantage to shooting raw...in a case such as this, however, you might be better off shooting raw.
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02/20/2005 10:25:43 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by nshapiro:
Bibble, unlike my old friend Breezebrowser, saves the adjustments you make in a sidecar file next to your RAW file, so you can archive them together, or go back later and change them without having to start over (which Breezebrowser makes you do). C1 and PS CS do this as well. |
PS CS saves the adjustments?
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02/20/2005 10:28:20 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by ButterflySis:
PS CS saves the adjustments? |
It saves how you adjusted the file, yes. It won't over-write the original RAW file, just the adjustments you've made to it. You can always revert back to "as shot" though.
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02/20/2005 10:28:32 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by ButterflySis:
PS CS saves the adjustments? |
Yes. The next time you open the RAW file it will show the adjustments you made the last time. If you want to start over just select 'Camera Default' from the dropdown. The default can be changed as well.
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02/20/2005 10:29:49 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by ButterflySis:
PS CS saves the adjustments? |
Yes. The next time you open the RAW file it will show the adjustments you made the last time. If you want to start over just select 'Camera Default' from the dropdown. The default can be changed as well. |
Ahh, okay. Cool. Thanks, Colette.
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02/20/2005 10:30:21 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by ButterflySis:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
If you finish in the top 5 of any challenge, or your entry is otherwise called into question, you may be asked to submit your original straight from camera file and list any editing steps used to create your submission. Note that every time you enter a challenge, you are checking a box that says you agree to this. If you do not agree to this, then you should not be entering.
That original is only used by Site Council to verify that your entry was created legally. We do not use it for any other purpose.
-Terry |
Oops, Top 5...I was thinking 10. Whatever.
Just curious, (getting off track again) what do you do with the files after you've verified them? |
Site Council or what ever, who ask you or me to send raw file are asking me to give it. As long 3 person have your raw file this 3 person can use your file as he wants what ever, "so it have to chance", just think if this company goes bankrupted and new owner get the company, or they just sell the company or accident happens to the key person wake up guys or !!!! I know it is no bad thinking of asking to send raw file and to day it is done by good will, but it can be different next day, I think we need better system to find out about picture or chance the rule
I am just pointing this out because, many have lost there picture by sending raw file to people they trust ! this can be solved if they add in altering contest I know many will love it. |
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02/20/2005 10:32:20 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by ButterflySis:
Originally posted by kirbic:
They remain on file as a reference. Many times we need to review historical DQs and validations when we are working on current challenges. |
:-( |
Just curious, why the frowny face? Is there any question as to the site's use of unedited originals?
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02/20/2005 10:41:27 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by ButterflySis:
Originally posted by kirbic:
They remain on file as a reference. Many times we need to review historical DQs and validations when we are working on current challenges. |
:-( |
Just curious, why the frowny face? Is there any question as to the site's use of unedited originals? |
I PM'd you.
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02/20/2005 10:42:39 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by ButterflySis:
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by ButterflySis:
Originally posted by kirbic:
They remain on file as a reference. Many times we need to review historical DQs and validations when we are working on current challenges. |
:-( |
Just curious, why the frowny face? Is there any question as to the site's use of unedited originals? |
I PM'd you. |
This was just getting entertaining. No secrets. I'm curious to hear the answers as well.
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02/20/2005 12:51:37 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by deapee:
Originally posted by marbo:
I believe all the ps cs raw settings are all legal under the basic rules as they all effect the whole of the image at once. |
Setting the vignetting amount affects only the corners. Is that legal?
Post-shot Adjustments may be made to your image in a photo editing program, so long as the modification is applied to the whole image. |
Seems this thread got sidetracked to RAW vs JPG from the original intent, is RAW proccessing legal in Basic challenges? Nobody answered deapee's question above. |
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02/20/2005 01:07:49 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by jbsmithana:
Originally posted by deapee:
Originally posted by marbo:
I believe all the ps cs raw settings are all legal under the basic rules as they all effect the whole of the image at once. |
Setting the vignetting amount affects only the corners. Is that legal?
Post-shot Adjustments may be made to your image in a photo editing program, so long as the modification is applied to the whole image. |
Seems this thread got sidetracked to RAW vs JPG from the original intent, is RAW proccessing legal in Basic challenges? Nobody answered deapee's question above. |
Several people responded to the original question:
Originally posted by faidoi:
RAW is legal, but it depends on what you do to the image for it to be basic legal or not |
Originally posted by marbo:
I believe all the ps cs raw settings are all legal under the basic rules as they all effect the whole of the image at once. |
Originally posted by cghubbell:
Totally legal. It's philosophocally the same as tweaking your in-camera settings. |
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02/20/2005 01:09:25 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by ButterflySis:
Several people responded to the original question:
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So then is it legal to change vignetting, which clearly violates the rules for basic editing as it doesn't effect the whole image, only the corners?
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