| Author | Thread |
|
|
02/17/2005 06:42:35 PM · #26 |
| Understood, Sfboatright, and I agree. But how do you go about just moving on and not vote on it? You basically have to vote to get out of that frame. I am just questioning merits of a "null" vote. Even with the present system. |
|
|
|
02/17/2005 06:50:03 PM · #27 |
I am always interested in a mechanism that promotes a genuinely fair and representative voting process. However since joining this site 5 months ago, I have come to the conclusion that this might be akin to King Canute commanding the tide to recede.
However this does not dissuade on iota from the basic challenge process. We place are images on this site to be judged by our peers. Sometimes we are praised to the havens and at other times we are found wanting.
Sometimes the - Winner- will have a score in the 8̢۪s and at other times the top score will be in the 6̢۪s. What ever the score, they are still the highest rating entry.
I an ideal world the winning entry should always receive a high score, however life is not like that, and reality must be recognised. What ever system you adopt there will people that use the full scoring regime, whilst there will be others who consistently score either higher or lower than the norm.
Whilst I would be the first to covert a high score, I will be the first to admit that I will be the happiest man on earth if I get a ribbon, no matter what the score. A sore of 5 winning a ribbon would receive no complaints from my direction.
There have been debates in the past on whether DPC has a preferred styleâ€Â¦ I do not wish to enter into that debate in this thread, I will say however say that in my own situation, after some 25 entries, the photograph which I feel is my best to date, considering the qualities of -, delivering a technically image; evoking the process of thinking and feeling in others; meeting the challenge; and making me think, YES, I like this, struggled to score in the top half of my photo’s
I am a little disillusioned – Yes.
Was it a surprise – No
Will I do the same again in the future – Yes
I must caveat these comments my stating that I am still on a very steep learning curve, whilst I would love to post high quality competent images every time, I want to learn and are deliberately experimenting within the challengesâ€Â¦
/ steps down of soap box.
|
|
|
|
02/17/2005 06:51:49 PM · #28 |
How about a 10 - 20 scale? That way we have a true middle and everyone will score over a 10 so they should be happy :)
The voting system is fine and all photos end up scored how they should have scored based on our voter population. There is no problem, nothing is wrong, nothing needs to be changed. If you change the voting scale, nothing changes, except the scale. If you change the scale all the averages and scores would be off and would need to be mathematically corrected... SC and D&L have much better things to do.
I don't like that I weigh 215 pounds so I'm going to get a metric scale. Now I only weigh 97kg. Better number, but nothing changed. |
|
|
|
02/17/2005 06:58:20 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by louddog:
I don't like that I weigh 215 pounds so I'm going to get a metric scale. Now I only weigh 97kg. Better number, but nothing changed. |
Good point, well said. how about a 1-10,000 scale without decimal places ;)
|
|
|
|
02/17/2005 07:02:10 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by nshapiro:
I propose
1 / 2 / Scalvert / Jacko / BradP / Heida / Kiwiness. |
Hey! No fair picking on us!
(but am honored to be in their company) |
|
|
|
02/17/2005 07:06:25 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by aguapreta:
I think they just need to put a 5.5 button in there.... |
I agree with this one. With 400 shots to judge, it is nice to have 1-10 to utilize. I would love to see a definite middle 5.5 choice added to even up everyones perceived middle of the road pictures. |
|
|
|
02/17/2005 07:07:54 PM · #32 |
I don't think the problem is which numbers we use....it's that a 5 for one person might be the same as an 8 for another.
215 pounds is 215 pounds anywhere on Earth, but only because we've all agreed on what a pound is.
Message edited by author 2005-02-17 19:08:25. |
|
|
|
02/17/2005 07:09:13 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by sfboatright:
215 pounds is 215 pounds anywhere on Earth, but only because we've all agreed on what a pound is. |
1 pound = 1.85 dollars |
|
|
|
02/17/2005 07:09:31 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by drydoc:
CAPGAL,
Don't you get the same results at the end of voting when the results are tallied. It doesn't take long to realize that page one is perfect, page two almost perfect, middle pagesaverage, and so on.
I do have a different question though: What do you do if you want to "pass" on rating a particular photo? Once it randomly appears for voting, you have to vote on it. Is it possible some of the "1" votes come from people who simply do not know where the image fits in the rating scale and therefore give it a one to get out of a higher vote? Not sure this is really happening, just raising the question. |
I did state that at the end of the challenge, the winner shall prevail, etc. However, it would be more beneficial to have a certain score have a certain meaning, as I had posted earlier.
In order to pass on a photo... why don;t you just shut down your browser, or refresh thehomepage of DPC, rather than punish the photographer for your lack of enthusiasm??
From the tone of your post, it seems you missed the object of my ideas... I do not wish that the voting were different to change who wins, etc... I wish that the voting was more consistent between challenges, and could be used to rate whether your photos are getting better... more continuity, thats all...
Signed,
the often misunderstood Deb
|
|
|
|
02/17/2005 07:11:40 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Artan:
Originally posted by sfboatright:
215 pounds is 215 pounds anywhere on Earth, but only because we've all agreed on what a pound is. |
1 pound = 1.85 dollars |
:-P |
|
|
|
02/17/2005 07:12:34 PM · #36 |
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it! But if it were brokeâ€Â¦Ã¢€Â¦ I think the problem would be that we look at it as a VOTE when we should look at it as an evaluation. If the entries were evaluated in several different areas, even on a scale of 1-10 on each category and then averaged to give a final evaluation, it would give the participant a fairly clear view of what evaluators thought of the entry. I know this is a dead horse but still a valid suggestion, at least IMO.
|
|
|
|
02/17/2005 07:15:24 PM · #37 |
Linear rating is just that, just like all the other "Rate my (insert noun)" sites. Digital Photos + challenge = a whole different animal.
We should be rating each photograph on their own merit (several different elements)...not where they fall in the pack. Stuff like "I like this one better so I better move this up to 7 and that down to 4" it happens I do it myself with this system.
Look at an entry; Composition 1-7, Lighting 1-7, Appeal 1-7, Fits Challenge 1-7, Combined elements average will be how viewers see your photo based on components of your photo.
The photo owner would be able to see 1-7 how he see did in each of the individual components.
To get better or learn you have to either have comments or visually see why the majority did not rate you higher. In a matrix style voting system, if your lighting was bad the majority would give you lower scores and you would be able to see that. Does not replace comments but it is better than no comments at all.
"Rate my girlfriend" style voting is the norm for most photo sites on the net now...as viewers always are always in a hurry to move on. "I like that one 6", "ew...yuck 3", "Ah...sorta...5" etc. etc. etc...
Now with 400+ entries it might get hard to vote with that style system because we would have to slow down and actually look at the Composition, Lighting, appeal... for each and vote accordinglingly.
With a linear system we know where we stand but not really why. |
|
|
|
02/17/2005 07:17:50 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by awpollard:
Linear rating is just that, just like all the other "Rate my (insert noun)" sites. Digital Photos + challenge = a whole different animal.
We should be rating each photograph on their own merit (several different elements)...not where they fall in the pack. Stuff like "I like this one better so I better move this up to 7 and that down to 4" it happens I do it myself with this system.
Look at an entry; Composition 1-7, Lighting 1-7, Appeal 1-7, Fits Challenge 1-7, Combined elements average will be how viewers see your photo based on components of your photo.
The photo owner would be able to see 1-7 how he see did in each of the individual components.
To get better or learn you have to either have comments or visually see why the majority did not rate you higher. In a matrix style voting system, if your lighting was bad the majority would give you lower scores and you would be able to see that. Does not replace comments but it is better than no comments at all.
"Rate my girlfriend" style voting is the norm for most photo sites on the net now...as viewers always are always in a hurry to move on. "I like that one 6", "ew...yuck 3", "Ah...sorta...5" etc. etc. etc...
Now with 400+ entries it might get hard to vote with that style system because we would have to slow down and actually look at the Composition, Lighting, appeal... for each and vote accordinglingly.
With a linear system we know where we stand but not really why. |
Yes,Yes,Yes!
|
|
|
|
02/17/2005 07:21:52 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by sfboatright:
Originally posted by Artan:
Originally posted by sfboatright:
215 pounds is 215 pounds anywhere on Earth, but only because we've all agreed on what a pound is. |
1 pound = 1.85 dollars |
:-P |
My perception is your reality.... or is it the other way round
I say towmartow, you say tomaytow
you say powtaytow , I say powtaytow
Powtaytow, powtarto , towmaytow, tomartow
lets call the whole thing ...... odd |
|
|
|
02/17/2005 07:26:21 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by Artan:
I say towmartow, you say tomaytow
you say powtaytow , I say powtaytow
Powtaytow, powtarto , towmaytow, tomartow
lets call the whole thing ...... odd |
You don't want to start that debate with a Rhode Islander... we forget our R's and put 'em where they shouldn't be, lol (not me though, I'm a sophisticate, haha)
Deb |
|
|
|
02/17/2005 07:28:26 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by capgal:
for example, this is the definition of a "7" at another website. I don't want to post the entire thing, so as not to plagiarize...
7 (Good): Image is strong enough to draw attention, it is done well, with the exception of some minor flaws.
Gives you a better idea than, "well, I got a 5.6 in a member challenge, which is scored somewhat differently than an open challenge, and people were harsh this time around because the subject matter was difficult..."
I think you get the idea....
Deb |
This does seem like a good idea, I know my work isn't a ribbon winner but I think I could learn more if I knew what people saw wrong with my image. I think maybe even having a scale of flaws...maybe every pictures starts at the top and as you click problems you see, the score goes down. I think this would help more people vote to cause if you don't vote for someone they get a 10. Just another idea. |
|
|
|
02/17/2005 07:29:47 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by capgal:
....You don't want to start that debate with a Rhode Islander... we forget our R's and put 'em where they shouldn't be.... |
some of just sit on them ;) |
|
|
|
02/17/2005 07:31:01 PM · #43 |
I think we should have a scoring scale that goes up to 11.
'cause, like, most scoring system's go up to 10. And 11 is, like, 1 better.
John
|
|
|
|
02/17/2005 07:42:33 PM · #44 |
Well, responses so far are about as expected, and like I said up front, I knew off the bat that change is unlikely. About the only reason given so far, though, is "if it ain't broke don't fix it", which really isn't a reason. There's a difference in suggesting a potential improvement and claiming that the system is broken. Note that I posted this under the section called WEB SITE SUGGESTIONS. Seems like D&L are willing to consider suggestions, to their credit.
And where did the idea to change the system to generate higher scores in order to stroke egos come from? I suggested 1-7, which will lower scores. Anyway, thanks for the responses. The subject of scoring will always be a touchy one, but I doubt it will change anytime soon. |
|
|
|
02/17/2005 10:29:42 PM · #45 |
Being a science guy by training, I tend to think in numbers - and none of this argument really seems to make sense to me. The voting on this site is all about finding the average of a group of votes. It doesn't really matter that there is no middle. Some people will go one way, and some will go another - they will statistically offset each other. If the system were to go to a 1-7 or some sort of smaller scale like that, it would limit the amount of input people could make in their judgments. The distributions would be tighter and the results would mean even less. The only changes that should be made for better voting, would be to add more numbers, but that is complicated - WAY more complicated than 1-10. (I have trouble voting between a 5 and a 6 sometimes let alone a 53 and a 54 on a 1-100 scale.) Numerically speaking, the 1-10 scale is solid and it is why it has been used for so long in so many places without contest.
That being said, I don't think anyone would say that the voting is flawed as it is now. People place highly because they take good pictures. Yes, I am from the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" school. |
|
|
|
02/17/2005 10:42:46 PM · #46 |
I 100% agree with the "if it ain't broken don't try to fix it" theory...
However, I do think we could improve on the system that is in place now, by making the measurements mean something, rather than a subjective "yeah, i like it, or, nah, not my thing"
Deb |
|
|
|
02/17/2005 10:47:23 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by floyd:
I think we should have a scoring scale that goes up to 11.
'cause, like, most scoring system's go up to 10. And 11 is, like, 1 better.
John |
"Why don't you just make ten louder and let that be the highest?"
"But...........but...these go to eleven." |
|
|
|
02/17/2005 10:49:12 PM · #48 |
Even since I have joined the entries are getting larger and larger on average. I have a hard time voting on half of them as it is, with this hamster running my kentucky dialup. I really dont think its the votes, this site is just getting alot more traffic. I can see in a year having 1000 pics to vote on. I am not complaining, but I think the scale should stay the same, its just that we won't get as many "good votes" from honest people. It just gets diluted after a while? It will only get more diluted as time goes on, but hopefully people will still see the GREAT shots, and not he average ones. Like most of mine! I just have a hard time voting on 100, much less 500.
I still love y'all, and every vote and comment I get. Its such a place to expand and develop! B
|
|
