Encouraging Comments - DPChallenge Forums

01/21/2005 12:07:40 PM · #1

I have an idea that might really increase the number of comments on the site.

Rather than basing the ribbon on the total average score, why not weight the score by commentors more heavily? Say, a weighted average of commenter and non-commenter scores, 70/30 weighting?

That would encourage people to leave more comments. Sure there would be a lot of "great photos", but sometimes we need those too. Someone leaving any comment at least (likely) looked at the photo for a little longer than someone who didn't (on average).

It will also reduce the impact of "lowball voters" who don't comment for obvious reasons.

01/21/2005 12:10:11 PM · #2

what about people that leave a comment like "nice photo" or "good work" and say nothing contructive???

Ivo

01/21/2005 12:34:10 PM · #3

I'm seeing a greater number of challenge entries as time goes along and I'm guilty of only wanting to vote on the "smaller" challenges because I can maintain my objectivity and provide some meatier comments. Would a solution be to limit the number of entries that you can actually vote on to say......100? This is just an arbitrary number but it may reduce the voter's workload and enable them to comment more often. It may be hard to program or it may not. Has this been tabled bfore?

01/21/2005 12:35:34 PM · #4

Still better than people who leave nothing at all. And as I mentioned, at least they paused on the photo for a moment or two. Some people breeze by so fast they don't have time to "see" the details of the photograph.

01/21/2005 12:37:17 PM · #5

You have rated 91 of 531 images (17%) in this challenge.
You have commented on 91 images (17%) in this challenge.

My stats so far.

To reach the min. 20% mark and commenting is NOT hard. My comments are not always welcome or deserved but at least I try and make it constructive or at the least funny.

01/21/2005 12:37:52 PM · #6

Another aspect of this I didn't point out: the ones that comment usually take time to look at the photo and are better critics. So this should also have a positive effect on the score rankings.

01/21/2005 12:39:44 PM · #7

Originally posted by nshapiro:

Another aspect of this I didn't point out: the ones that comment usually take time to look at the photo and are better critics. So this should also have a positive effect on the score rankings.

obviously you haven't gotten a comment from me then. lol

GoldBerry

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

01/21/2005 12:40:04 PM · #8

Originally posted by nshapiro:

the ones that comment usually take time to look at the photo and are better critics.

How can you tell how long someone looked at a photo by their comment, or lack of a comment? You must have some super excel spreadsheet to figure that out :-)

wkmen

Olympus SP-570 UZ

01/21/2005 12:45:38 PM · #9

I like this idea, Neil. The people that would leave comments that don't provide any insight were likely going to only do that anyway, or leave nothing at all, so it's not a loss. The message that voters would get is that your vote counts more if you take the time to back it up and share your expertise. The net result will be more comments - some of them will be useful, and the folks who were going to leave useful comments anyhow still will.

So, look at it like this: the extra time you invest as a voter-critiquer earns you a weighted advantage over a voter-only.

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

01/21/2005 12:48:44 PM · #10

Originally posted by GoldBerry:

Originally posted by nshapiro:
the ones that comment usually take time to look at the photo and are better critics.

How can you tell how long someone looked at a photo by their comment, or lack of a comment? You must have some super excel spreadsheet to figure that out :-)

I've got spyware on your computer... ;-)

No, I was speaking on average. Some people may certainly look a long time and not comment. But compared to the average voter, someone who comments takes a longer look. Try commenting on all the photos in O4 like notonline appears to be doing!

But of course, there are ways to cheat there--paste the same comment from the clipboard on everyone. I've seen that on other sites, from people who realize that when you comment, you get more comments.

Still, I think on the average, it would be an improvement.

It might be interesting, as an experiment, to see a rank ordering from one of the prior challenges if it were scored this way.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

01/21/2005 12:49:29 PM · #11

In theory this is a lovely idea, but if commenting became a "scored" category in some way, then we'd just have people who do NOT comment now leaving 1-word comments in future; no real change. So we'd have to get code to only "count" comments of 20 words or more... Then voters would have a cut 'n paste, 21-word, generic comment that works like a horoscope: "Your image is interesting and provocative. It could use some work in composition, and sharpness is a bit of a problem."

Not a good idea, I think.

It is possible a more "accurate" scoring system would discard entirely the top 10% and bottom 10% of all votes received by an image. This would diminish the negative effects of trolls, who seem to give high scores to weak images and low scores to good ones. This probably would not change the ribbons much, if at all, but it would perhaps give a more accurate average score...

Robt.

Mick

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

01/21/2005 12:51:58 PM · #12

Originally posted by nshapiro:

Even better, allow people that receive a comment to give the comment a score. The higher the score given to the comment the more weight is given to that commenter's vote. That would give a real incentive for voters to provide polite and helpful comments.

01/21/2005 12:55:40 PM · #13

Originally posted by nshapiro:

Originally posted by GoldBerry:

Originally posted by nshapiro:
the ones that comment usually take time to look at the photo and are better critics.

How can you tell how long someone looked at a photo by their comment, or lack of a comment? You must have some super excel spreadsheet to figure that out :-)

I've got spyware on your computer... ;-)

No, I was speaking on average. Some people may certainly look a long time and not comment. But compared to the average voter, someone who comments takes a longer look. Try commenting on all the photos in O4 like notonline appears to be doing!

But of course, there are ways to cheat there--paste the same comment from the clipboard on everyone. I've seen that on other sites, from people who realize that when you comment, you get more comments.

Still, I think on the average, it would be an improvement.

It might be interesting, as an experiment, to see a rank ordering from one of the prior challenges if it were scored this way.

I'm not saying you said I was copying and pasting but I assure you I have not. I do however wish everybody I comment on best of luck in 2005 even if I don't like the picture. I would however like to comment on all of then since I find that challenge to be one of the best that I personally have seen AND entered. Besides my score and 10 comments piss me off cuz I'm sitting around 5.1 and I know (or at least in my opinion) should deserve more.

mpalitang

Canon EF 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 II USM

01/21/2005 12:57:48 PM · #14

I think this is a bad idea! I usually only comment on the ones that I think are just awesome or that I could see where there could be improvement! That means that the pretty good photos wouldn't be weighted as high! I have a hard enough time meeting the 20% on some of these! Adding comment requirements just means that I'd be wasting my time! Sometimes when I do have the time and finish the voting, I'll go back and start commenting on those that I didn't get a chance to! I'm sure most people do this...

01/21/2005 12:58:27 PM · #15

Originally posted by notonline:

Yes, as you say, I was not talking about you in terms of cut-and-paste. I was actually using you as a positive example and commending your efforts. Even though i haven't received your comment yet, I look forward to it, pro or con for my photo.

Ivo

01/21/2005 12:59:07 PM · #16

Originally posted by micknewton:

Good idea but the only way I can see that working is to make all voting anonomys otherwise it may ruffle some feathers. For example, If "Heida" gave a two word comment vs a "Newbie" would you judge her comment as harshly because of her "standing" on this site? Then we get back onto the anonymity when voting issue.

01/21/2005 12:59:31 PM · #17

Originally posted by mpalitang:

So all this means is that if you really love a photo and want it to win, then you will make sure to comment on those as well.

The real benefits come to the photographer who gets all the comments.

Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS

01/21/2005 01:01:08 PM · #18

Originally posted by nshapiro:

Originally posted by notonline:

I'm not saying you said I was copying and pasting but I assure you I have not. I do however wish everybody I comment on best of luck in 2005 even if I don't like the picture. I would however like to comment on all of then since I find that challenge to be one of the best that I personally have seen AND entered. Besides my score and 10 comments piss me off cuz I'm sitting around 5.1 and I know (or at least in my opinion) should deserve more.

If on the chance that I do not get to vote on YOUR photo and you still want a comment ( besides me saying that I can't cook) then Let me know after the voting and I would be more then happy to. I am working on getting them all done but the teacher won't give me an extension and the lovely Goldberry is very distracting :D. lol
Yes, as you say, I was not talking about you in terms of cut-and-paste. I was actually using you as a positive example and commending your efforts. Even though i haven't received your comment yet, I look forward to it, pro or con for my photo.

Azrifel

Fujifilm X100VI

01/21/2005 01:01:43 PM · #19

When is a comment worthy enough to make the commenters vote weigh more?
- xx number of comments
- xx% of comments
- xx number of helpful comments
- xx% of helpful comments
- xx/xx% of comments with more than 10 words
- xx number of comments on a photo scored lower than a 5

I like DPC as it is. I don't have time to leave comments on every challenge and suddenly my vote is worth less? Better not vote at all than if it is only worth 30%, it would be a waste of time.

Azrifel

Fujifilm X100VI

01/21/2005 01:06:11 PM · #20

Originally posted by micknewton:

I doubt it would.

What is the aim of all this. To get your score up or to receive more comments?

tolovemoon

Canon EOS Rebel SL1

01/21/2005 01:10:17 PM · #21

No no dont change a thing... I have barely been able to make time for voting 20% on the challenges I have been entering lately...

But then thats just me :) good concept :) I dont try to vote all images anymore, I did when I first started though. Its not fair really if you arent taking time to really look.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

01/21/2005 01:11:55 PM · #22

Originally posted by Azrifel:

Originally posted by micknewton:

Even better, allow people that receive a comment to give the comment a score. The higher the score given to the comment the more weight is given to that commenter's vote. That would give a real incentive for voters to provide polite and helpful comments.

I doubt it would.

What is the aim of all this. To get your score up or to receive more comments?

The aim is to get more comments, and to make sure that people who take time to look at images have more impact on the final score. Of course, no system is perfect, not the proposed one, and certainly not the current one. I simply think it would be a tilt in the right direction.

Mick

Canon EOS-5D

01/21/2005 01:19:31 PM · #23

Originally posted by Azrifel:

When is a comment worthy enough to make the commenters vote weigh more?

That would be up to the person receiving the comment.

Originally posted by Azrifel:

I like DPC as it is. I don't have time to leave comments on every challenge and suddenly my vote is worth less? Better not vote at all than if it is only worth 30%, it would be a waste of time.

If you don't have time to leave comments, especially when handing out very low or very high scores, then you probably don't have time to give the photos a decent appraisal either. In that case you should come back later when you have more time. The problem is that a lot of people "don't have time" so they either don't vote at all or they just blast through 20% of the photos without even really looking at them.

I think they should do away with the 20% rule and make everyone vote on every entry before any of their votes are counted. After all, it's supposed to be a contest between a set number of entries, and if you only vote on 100 entries out of 500 then there's a good chance that you won't even see the best entries in the competition.

Azrifel

Fujifilm X100VI

01/21/2005 01:21:16 PM · #24

Wouldn't people who don't get many comments (and I think there will be plenty) sink even deeper?
Perhaps that could be a way to encourage people to enter higher quality photos.
On the other hand, someone who enters some artsy stuff or something controversial could suddenly end up with a lot of heavy weighing low votes.

Just adding some thoughts.