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 12/01/2004 09:38:24 PM · #26
Please take time to read
I want to thank everyone that took the time to read and comment on my post. I know it was long and Iâm sorry. Iâm a person that likes thinking ahead towards the future and I guess that drives me to think of alternative ways of advancing things; such as I did in this site suggestion. Not to say that my suggestion was good or the right thing to do. But my post and others comments did open my eyes up to a few things and I would like to say;
1. Thank you Drew and Langdon for putting together a site using your time and money with little or no profit so that we can have a place to call our second home.
2. Thanks to all the administrators that share there time to keep this site up and running so we are not locked out of our second home.
3. Thanks to all the Site Council members for keeping all of us in check and keeping things running smoothly.
4. Thanks to all the critique club members for offering comments so that we can learn from your experience.
5. And, Thanks to all of the DPC community, whether its your first day or if you have been here since the first day, for a great place to come together and share photographs and ideas.

DPC is truly a site that I am proud to be a member. If you are a registered user I would highly suggest becoming a member. You would be rewarded in ways you would never dream. Thanks to everyone for the debate on this subject, I respect each and every one of you whether you agreed or not with the changes I proposed.
Scott W.

Message edited by author 2004-12-01 21:39:28.
 12/01/2004 09:44:44 PM · #27
SDW65 - Thank you for taking the time and thought you do with everything you do here. And always with class.
 12/01/2004 09:56:56 PM · #28
Originally posted by alansfreed:
I appreciate the thought that went into this, but I have to admit that I'm perfectly happy with the way things are now... it's simple and to the point.

With the exception of a couple recent anomolies with the Macro & B&W challenges, there really haven't been huge and unreasonable numbers of photos in challenges, and the numbers of submissions haven't been jumping in leaps and bounds over the course of time.

I just don't see the sense in adding so much criteria in to who can enter what... it's much more fun for me to have one big pool of photos of all different skill levels. I learn just as much from those at the lower end as I do from the ribbons...


i agree with alansfreed on this 1. in all my time here the only big-big challenges have been B&W and macro w/o bugs or flows.

also instead of putting us all through this long tedious prosses of catogorizing us all into levels.
The challenges could be made more and more detailed so as to cut down entries that are just thrown in and may not apply to the challenge subject if full. also this way voting would be made easer since there would be no confused submitions.

_brando_
 12/02/2004 08:37:12 AM · #29
Originally posted by SDW65:
...
Beginners Level Challenge:
1. Basic Editing Rules
2. Cannot have participated in more than 5 challenges
3. This challenge is for beginners only [registered users or members]
4. Participants are not allowed to vote on this challenge

I believe that DPC is the best photography learning website on the net today. With that said why donât we make it an even better learning site at the same time attracting more users. I believe this can be achieved by having a beginners challenge. The beginnerâs challenge is only open to new users that have participated in < 5 challenges. This would be a learning experience for them for several reasons. 1] The only users able to vote would be the ones that are not at the beginners level. 2] DPC would highly recommend that all users that vote comment on each entry, since there would not be as many each week as seen in other challenges, offering constructive criticism or advice to help the new user make the best of his or her first 5 entries to grow and learn. 3] Once a beginner has completed his or her 5 entries then they would advance to amateur or novice depending upon there average score. Since there would be a limited number of entries in this challenge DPC would award only one ribbon per challenge. The ribbon can be of a different color or overlaid with the letter âBâ to identify it as a beginnerâs ribbon. Beginnerâs ribbons do not qualify as a ribbon to put them in the âAdvanced Level Challengeâ

re:
2. (3 is redundant) I don't like limiting the participants in this manner. I don't have the stats to know how many would be eligible to enter, but I doubt it would be all that many. In the case of a member, you end up with someone who paid to be a part of the site and are still limited to only this challenge. 5 entries requires more than a month of being restricted to sub-user status (without even the right of representation by vote); that is a long time to expect anyone to put up with to become a full user of the site.

4. (1] is redundant) One of the biggest advantages of DPC is that winners are not selected by a panel; but by the users themselves -- remove this and you remove the feel of DPC. The vast amount of learning is done by actively comparing the images with each other. More learning is done by writing comments than by receiving them. Why do you feel those new to the site are not capable of voting? After all, the only requirement for voting is an opinion.

Ribbons: I don't like the idea of a special ribbon for the winner. Why not change the graphic to add training wheels? A ribbon is a ribbon -- if the challenge is worth having, the ribbon(s!) must be worth winning and have full status amoung all other ribbons on the site. Also, why would the second and third place winners be less worthy of notice?

Originally posted by SDW65:
Novice Level Challenge
1. Basic Editing rules
2. Must have participated in 5 or more challenges
3. Challenge is open to registered users or members with an average vote received < 5.000 with no ribbons [other than beginner ribbon] won
4. Participants and all users are allowed to vote

The âNovice Level Challengeâ is for users with an average vote received < 5.000. It will give them an extra incentive to get to the 5.000 level and be able to participate in the âAmateur levelâ before or at the same time being able to achieve a ribbon.


3. Average vote is relatively meaningless; even when considered over a small number of previous challenges. The distribution of votes vary (sometimes considerably) from one challenge to the next, throwing the averages off. Just consider the votes within a challenge are all based around the same challenge theme, but the votes from one challenge to the next have nothing to do with each other. The point system Eddy suggested in the previous thread does take care of this.

Originally posted by SDW65:
Amateur Challenge
1. Advanced editing rules
2. Must have participated in 5 or more challenges
3. Challenge is open to registered users or members with an average vote received > 5.000 with no ribbons [other than beginner ribbon] won
4. Participants and all users are allowed to vote

The âAmateur Level Challengeâ is for users that has achieved an average vote received >5.000 with no ribbons [other than beginner ribbon] won. It would give them opportunity to participate in a challenge with âadvanced editingâ rules at the same time still giving them the goal of achieving there first ribbon.


1. Why did a score above a 5.000 suddenly qualify them as better photoshop users? Are you implying the more PS the better the chance to score well? ... or are the advanced rules simply a bonus for scoring well?

3. Same as above; averages scores across challenges are without statistical significance.

Originally posted by SDW65:
Members Challenge
1. Advance editing rules
2. Must have participated in more than 5 challenges
3. Challenge open to all members
4. Participants and Members are allowed to vote.

The memberâs challenge is exactly as it is today. You have to be a member to participate.


2. and 3.: These are contridictory for new members -- again you have members who are not allowed to participate in a site they paid to do be able to do so.

Originally posted by SDW65:
Advanced Level Challenge
1. Advanced editing rules
2. Must have participated in 5 or more challenges
3. Challenge is open to registered users or members with an average vote received > 5.000 and at least 1 ribbon.
4. Participants and Members are allowed to vote


3. Same as above. However, also consider the challenges are just that -- challenges. They are varied in theme to stretch the experience of those participating. Just winning a ribbon (or even 3) is little indication of general ability -- particularly when the challenge could be on a topic the ribbon winner is not experienced with. <-- to restate; that is the purpose of the challenges.

David

Message edited by author 2004-12-02 08:39:29.
 12/02/2004 09:33:42 AM · #30
i'm a new member. but i have learned much over the past few weeks. stop this line of chat and anything that remotely challenges the status quo. you are wasting your time. in this community the rc factor exceeds anything i've ever encountered. stop wasting your time. stop wasting your breath. go with the flow. when you come back from'going with the flow' in a years time, you will see the same issues being discussed to no avail, the only difference is that there will be new names attached to those time wasting inputs.

Message edited by author 2004-12-02 09:35:30.
 12/02/2004 09:52:58 AM · #31
I agree with many posting here that the system is fine now. I would, however, like to make a couple of points.

First, if the proposed level system would be adopted the imposed the editing rules are reversed from what I think is logical. An advanced photographer should be "challenged" by limited computer manipulation not more, forcing the photographer to come up with more creative set ups. The beginner is the one who really needs the advanced editing ability.

Second, if the main problem is the large entries (I donât think they are a problem. I enjoyed looking thru all the entries) then the challenges should be less broad. Many photographers, myself included, skip challenges that just donât appeal to them. One such challenge for me was lucky 7. The more specific the challenges, the more likely those not into it will opt out.

12/02/2004 11:51:21 AM · #32
Originally posted by hyperfocal:
I agree with many posting here that the system is fine now. I would, however, like to make a couple of points.

First, if the proposed level system would be adopted the imposed the editing rules are reversed from what I think is logical. An advanced photographer should be "challenged" by limited computer manipulation not more, forcing the photographer to come up with more creative set ups. The beginner is the one who really needs the advanced editing ability.

Second, if the main problem is the large entries (I donât think they are a problem. I enjoyed looking thru all the entries) then the challenges should be less broad. Many photographers, myself included, skip challenges that just donât appeal to them. One such challenge for me was lucky 7. The more specific the challenges, the more likely those not into it will opt out.


I fully agree with these two statements. Even with the existing setup, if challenges would be more specific, the number of entries would be less. And one would still have the freedom to choose between basic and advanced editing challenges. In the proposed system any so called "advanced" member would only have access to advanced editing. I personally don't like that limitation.
 12/03/2004 12:43:09 AM · #33
Originally posted by Digital Quixote:
Originally posted by e301:
Where's the Math Guy when you need him?


51 seconds before you hit Post. LOL

Err, don't you mean 49 secs? :)

David
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