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11/19/2004 06:31:45 AM · #1 |
Hi all
Sorry to bring up a subject that has been talked about too many times already but I would like some feedback on what is right for me rather than the results of another debate.
I asked recently about the idea of going for a Leica D2 or dSLR and would like to thank everyone for the informative replies, the purchase of such was invisioned for mid next year. However, things are moving a bit quicker than expected and I'm now in a position where I'm looking to go 'live' as a self proclaimed photographer at the start of the new year.
I have done a couple of magazine assignments and in the future will be looking to do quite a bit of stock work as well as more magazine work, hopefully I will also be looking to get a little product and corporate work. My personal desire is for street photography and I would be looking to cover my own enjoyment too. Additionally I may set-up a small studio for portrait work etc (but this will be on a very small, local basis). I fully appreciate that I'm in no position to take up 'non-replay' assignments such as weddings and similar events at this stage.
Now to the purchase, as a rough budget I'm looking at 2000 CHF (£800/$1200). After displaying an interest in the Minolta A2 a good friend let me borrow his 7i to see if I liked it - I do. My budget would allow me to buy this and an A2, a battery grip and an additional battery, such that I would have the following:
Minolta A2
Minolta 7i (as backup)
2500 (D) Flash unit
256mb Ultra II CF
256mb CF
Battery grip
plenty of battery power
and a case
I see the A2 as being the right solution due to the following strenghs:
1. The A2 is still small enough to be carried around on a daily basis
2. Shutter lag on the A2 is very short 0.2/0.3s
3. Zoom range is good for nearly everything
4. A complete package, further investement can then go to studio kit
But before I commit myself I'd like to hear any good reasons why moving to dSLR would be a better option. I know that at some point in the future I'll outgrow the A2 and move to dSLR anyway, but I'd like to think that after this investment my hobby can become self-funding.
Thanks in advance
Darren |
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11/19/2004 08:08:12 AM · #2 |
Hi Darren. Even with your list of the A2's strengths, including a fairly short shutter lag time, I would still recommend getting an entry-level DSLR. Try one out and you'll see that the difference between 0.05 seconds and 0.2-0.3 seconds can be pretty significant. Also, the DSLR will allow you to start your collection of high-quality lenses and other accessories, which will be an investment over your entire photographic career.
One other factor to consider, though it's by no means the most important criterion, is that if you really do want to make money as a photographer, people will simply take you more seriously if you show up with a camera that can switch lenses. Of course, you will really be pressed to stay within your budget if you pick up a D70 or 300D, but I faced the same decision that you did a few months ago and am so happy that I went with the DSLR. You have played around with the cameras you mentioned and like them, which is great. Why don't you also go to a camera store and play around with their DSLR selection before making your decision. I did and that's what made up my mind for me.
Good luck with your decision and happy shopping! :-)
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11/19/2004 08:17:52 AM · #3 |
My first inclination is to say save the money you'd spend on the 7i and put it toward your eventual dslr. Second idea is that you should think hard about the need for 8mp images for the type of work you are going to be doing in the near future. If you could get by with a 5-6 mp prosumer now you could put a little more toward the dslr. After you get the dslr an A1 would be a less repetitive back-up than the A2. There are some types of shooting that don't need the big image files. You'll save workflow time and storage space by having different alternatives in file size.
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11/19/2004 08:17:58 AM · #4 |
I agree with Phillip. Go to the store and play with a DSLR. I stopped down the other day and messed with the eos 300d and a nikon d70. For professional work, I, personally would stick with the dslr. You can broaden its ranges so much easier than the minolta -- and you have complete control.
Good luck in whatever you decide. |
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11/19/2004 08:24:20 AM · #5 |
Thanks Philip,
Although Switzerland is stupidly expensive in almost every sense, consumer electronics tend to be rather cheap in comparison to many other places:
300D inc 18-55mm = 1350 CHF
D70 inc 28-80mm = 1490 CHF
D70 inc 18-70mm = 1650 CHF
Or if I push it a bit:
20D inc 18-55mm = 2180 CHF
Dynax 7D inc 28-100mm = 2300 CHF |
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11/19/2004 08:26:02 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
My first inclination is to say save the money you'd spend on the 7i and put it toward your eventual dslr. Second idea is that you should think hard about the need for 8mp images for the type of work you are going to be doing in the near future. If you could get by with a 5-6 mp prosumer now you could put a little more toward the dslr. After you get the dslr an A1 would be a less repetitive back-up than the A2. There are some types of shooting that don't need the big image files. You'll save workflow time and storage space by having different alternatives in file size. |
I have thought about just getting the 7i, saving the money and seeing what's around in easter |
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11/19/2004 08:28:59 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by deapee:
I agree with Phillip. Go to the store and play with a DSLR. I stopped down the other day and messed with the eos 300d and a nikon d70. For professional work, I, personally would stick with the dslr. You can broaden its ranges so much easier than the minolta -- and you have complete control.
Good luck in whatever you decide. |
My biggest fear with this approach is that I'll get my hands on a 1Ds MkII or similar and then find myself contemplating selling my kids into slavery :) |
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11/19/2004 08:49:11 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by colda:
Originally posted by deapee:
I agree with Phillip. Go to the store and play with a DSLR. I stopped down the other day and messed with the eos 300d and a nikon d70. For professional work, I, personally would stick with the dslr. You can broaden its ranges so much easier than the minolta -- and you have complete control.
Good luck in whatever you decide. |
My biggest fear with this approach is that I'll get my hands on a 1Ds MkII or similar and then find myself contemplating selling my kids into slavery :) |
Not to be opportunistic but I have a Canon package for sale that would set you up quite nicely. See my sig :-) Otherwise, good luck in your search and in your future business endeavor!
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11/19/2004 09:15:30 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by digistoune:
Originally posted by colda:
Originally posted by deapee:
I agree with Phillip. Go to the store and play with a DSLR. I stopped down the other day and messed with the eos 300d and a nikon d70. For professional work, I, personally would stick with the dslr. You can broaden its ranges so much easier than the minolta -- and you have complete control.
Good luck in whatever you decide. |
My biggest fear with this approach is that I'll get my hands on a 1Ds MkII or similar and then find myself contemplating selling my kids into slavery :) |
Not to be opportunistic but I have a Canon package for sale that would set you up quite nicely. See my sig :-) Otherwise, good luck in your search and in your future business endeavor! |
Thanks Ellen but I don't think that it would work for me.
I can buy the 300D inc 18-55mm and a 55-200mm II USM for 1750 CHF (approx $1100) so with the cost of shipping it's not too practical (tempting though). |
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11/19/2004 09:16:17 AM · #10 |
I would recommend a base level dSLR and one or two lenses carefully selected to meet your needs. The advantages are very long battery life, fast shutter response, less noise from larger sensor, ability to limit depth of field if necessary. Do not buy fancy telezooms unless you are shooting wildlife or sports. A pro shooting medium format for editorial or portrait work could get by with a couple of prime lenses, so there is no reason you couldn't. A big kit doesn't get you great results, but a camera capable of delivering very high quality images and your skill can delivery great results even with a minimal kit.
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11/19/2004 09:22:33 AM · #11 |
| go dslr, i made the mistake you are hinting at doing. dont do it, it is so much more expensive eventually. |
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11/19/2004 09:31:59 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by colda:
Originally posted by deapee:
I agree with Phillip. Go to the store and play with a DSLR. I stopped down the other day and messed with the eos 300d and a nikon d70. For professional work, I, personally would stick with the dslr. You can broaden its ranges so much easier than the minolta -- and you have complete control.
Good luck in whatever you decide. |
My biggest fear with this approach is that I'll get my hands on a 1Ds MkII or similar and then find myself contemplating selling my kids into slavery :) |
LMAOO! I've considered that, the problem is I don't have any kids! LMAOOOOOOOOOO
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11/19/2004 10:05:59 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by colda:
My biggest fear with this approach is that I'll get my hands on a 1Ds MkII or similar and then find myself contemplating selling my kids into slavery :) |
Thus freeing up way more time for your photography. ;-)
If it helps stay within your budget, many people I know would recommend not buying a DSLR with the kit lens so that you can apply the cost difference to the lens(es) that you really want. I like my 18-55 kit lens for the 300D, but L glass, while more expensive, is noticeably better. Good luck, and please pass my apologies on to your kids. :-)
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11/19/2004 10:21:50 AM · #14 |
Hi Darren,
Is there a problem with buying over the internet being in Europe.
At the moment Canon is offering a 100 euro rebate on the 300D.
Look at this deal
At Digital Pear
It is the Black edition 300D, with Battery grip, and USM 18-55 lens for 999 Euro, Minus 100 = 899. (I think the rebate is still on).
The reason this is interesting for you is the company is based in D-79774 Albbruck, on the border between Germany & Switzerland. I think it is less then 50 KM from where you live. So you could drive over, pick it up, and drive back to avoid customs etc.
They have sweat prices on all DSLR's & lenses etc.
Anyway, just a thought.
Peter
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11/19/2004 11:05:51 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by PhilipDyer:
Originally posted by colda:
My biggest fear with this approach is that I'll get my hands on a 1Ds MkII or similar and then find myself contemplating selling my kids into slavery :) |
Thus freeing up way more time for your photography. ;-)
If it helps stay within your budget, many people I know would recommend not buying a DSLR with the kit lens so that you can apply the cost difference to the lens(es) that you really want. I like my 18-55 kit lens for the 300D, but L glass, while more expensive, is noticeably better. Good luck, and please pass my apologies on to your kids. :-) |
I agree! I bought a Canon 24-85 zoom as the first lens for my 10D, which was as close as you could get to a kit lens for that body when it was introduced. I haven't purchased any L glass yet, but I have a handful of primes that I enjoy much more than the consumer level zoom because of their speed and quality. Buy what you need, not what the general public seems to think is a good general purpose lens.
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12/02/2004 08:26:23 AM · #16 |
Aaarrrrgggghhhh!!!!
More confusion!
I've been putting off the decision (my heart still craves the A2) and the attraction of the link given by aKiwi (thanks Peter) made me think a little more about the 300D. I just about managed to ignore the pull to the 300D based on the fact that the price is still higher than the A2.
Until now.
Now I have found an offer in Switerland for the 300D (inc 18-55 and 256mb) for CHF 1000. The full package going the Minolta route would end up being twice as much, which means that if I choose the 300D I will still have another CHF 1000 ($700?) for extras.
This makes the 300D impossible to ignore - now I'm confused.
In addition the guy I'm borrowing the 7i from needs it back for the weekend, so to be fair to him I have to give him an answer tonight.
Sooooo confused - please help!
Also, can anyone give me some practical advice on living with a 300D, how big an issue is sensor dust?, what (if any) are the bad points of a 300D?
Thanks in advance
Darren
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12/02/2004 08:44:44 AM · #17 |
| Hi Darren, I'm kind of in the same boat as you are. I own the minolta a1 now and thinking of moving up to the dslr. I was really considering the canon 20d until I started reading about the olympus evolt e-300 due out any day now. The price I've read is going to be 999.00 U.S. with a lens included. Another thing with the e-300 is that they make digital specefic lenses that are very highly rated and some what cheaper then the canon lens. So for now I'm going to wait and see what the reviews are going to be on the olympus e-300 before I make any decisions. Good luck, Randy |
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12/02/2004 08:56:32 AM · #18 |
| It all depends on what you want to do with it... if I wasn't wanting to turn professional in the near future, I would still carry on using my Panasonic FZ10 for a LONG time. For photos up to 12x8, it really does handle everything very well, and with it's 35-440mm F2.8 stabilised lens, it's versatile enough for almost anything. When I get my DSLR, I'll still carry on using my FZ10 for loads of stuff. And it's a FUN camera to use. The DSLR is to make sure I can give better quality photos for professional occasions. |
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12/02/2004 09:08:40 AM · #19 |
I just re-read your original post, and you'd be crazy to go with anything other than a DSLR. You'll probably find that at ISO800, the quality will still be better than a prosumer at ISO100, and the quality in general will knock spots off the smaller sensored camera.
You'll also be able to produce much larger prints, and you must allow for this if you're going to advertise as a pro. Also, you'll get taken more seriously. In general, the quality will look so much more professional. |
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12/02/2004 09:18:18 AM · #20 |
| One more post! Don't get rushed into buying into an SLR system just because of the cost of the body. I almost got a Rebel back at the beginning of the year, but am glad I waited until Minolta entered into the available DSLRs. There are loads of budget DSLRs about to come out now... Olympus, Pentax, Sigma are all worth looking at as well. The Rebel will be superceeded by a new model in the next couple of months, so it may be worth holding on if you can... then either buying a reduced Rebel or a second hand one. But make sure you understand the pros and cons for the whole lens system of whatever you decide to buy, against the other competitors. |
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12/02/2004 09:20:42 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
I just re-read your original post, and you'd be crazy to go with anything other than a DSLR. You'll probably find that at ISO800, the quality will still be better than a prosumer at ISO100, and the quality in general will knock spots off the smaller sensored camera.
You'll also be able to produce much larger prints, and you must allow for this if you're going to advertise as a pro. Also, you'll get taken more seriously. In general, the quality will look so much more professional. |
Or with an extra CHF 200 I can get the battery grip and go 'black' :)
300D offer
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12/02/2004 09:31:12 AM · #22 |
| I agree with everything Bobster said. As for your questions... I took 18,000+ shots with a 300D before sensor dust annoyed me enough to clean it, and even then there were only a few spots. To me, the ONLY significant drawback to the 300D was the lack of flash exposure compensation, but bounced flash strategies, the 550ex flash, strobe lights and/or the firmware hack can all eliminate that problem. As I've pointed out in other threads, the 300D is a very capable camera- you can start off with that body and a good lens or two, then sell it later for a slight loss (think of it as a rental fee) and upgrade to the 20D. |
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12/02/2004 09:48:08 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
I agree with everything Bobster said. As for your questions... I took 18,000+ shots with a 300D before sensor dust annoyed me enough to clean it, and even then there were only a few spots. To me, the ONLY significant drawback to the 300D was the lack of flash exposure compensation, but bounced flash strategies, the 550ex flash, strobe lights and/or the firmware hack can all eliminate that problem. As I've pointed out in other threads, the 300D is a very capable camera- you can start off with that body and a good lens or two, then sell it later for a slight loss (think of it as a rental fee) and upgrade to the 20D. |
Yup, he's giving good advice. I had an A1 and moved to the 300D. I'm so glad I did because at that time, a 10D might have been overwhelming. The 300D is a gentle beast that will allow you lots of freedom to grow. Good luck!
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12/02/2004 10:13:34 AM · #24 |
Also remember that Bodies come and go...Good Lenses stay with you for a long time...:D
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12/02/2004 11:25:37 AM · #25 |
ok, I'm going turn down the offer of the 7i, then I'm going to wait till the end of Jan (when I believe the offer ends) and unless something wonderful appears then I'll almost certainly get the 300D.
This means that I'm having to give up a nice camera and flash unit for the next 2 months - ouch.
Thanks everyone for your help :)
Darren
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