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11/19/2004 12:17:53 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
You've obviously read the same review as me... but you've been a bit selective because he then goes on to review the good points and concludes that it IS serious competition to the Canon and Nikon. |
I was pointing out the things that would prevent me from considering that as a usable camera for the type of photography I do. There could be hundreds of "good points", but all it takes is one or two (or 12) "issues" to say "the deal's off". Although it may be competition to Canon or Nikon in terms of image quality (i.e., once the picture has been taken and processed), just looking at an image ignores the usability issues that you have to deal with to actually take the picture. Sluggish performance, noisy focusing, invisible anti-shake, slow cross-sync speed, poor battery life, no top-panel LCD all factor in to the equation -- not just how good the end result is.
Like I said in my post, if those are "no big deal" to you and you don't mind waiting 12 seconds to write a 6MP photo to CF (for example), by all means, buy the camera. However, those might be bigger problems for somebody else, which is why I took the time to summarize the issues that I personally would have...
Message edited by author 2004-11-19 12:18:49. |
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11/19/2004 12:31:00 PM · #27 |
I had the 300D for a few months before upgrading. the D70 is on par with the 10D, so if you don't want to go to the 20D, then my recommendation is to get the D70. It's more comparable (and versatile) to a higher end camera.
:-)
Either way, you're spending the same on accessories, it's just whether or not you have Nikon/Canon preference. |
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11/19/2004 12:32:25 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by Anni:
Cool Thanks for all your comments. Still not sure though, Oh decisions decisions!! |
Note: the 10D is discontinued. |
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11/19/2004 12:52:46 PM · #29 |
Dont forget to check out the Pentax *st D
I was going to get the Rebel, but I think the D70 has more features and better flash capability.
I am not shooting much right now though so I put both off. |
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11/19/2004 02:49:37 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
Originally posted by Anni:
Cool Thanks for all your comments. Still not sure though, Oh decisions decisions!! |
Note: the 10D is discontinued. |
True - but you can still pick them up for a good price now, and they are excellent cameras. Also quite a few of the 'must have new technology' people are selling.
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11/20/2004 08:33:07 AM · #31 |
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11/21/2004 10:34:02 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
I tried it in my local camera store yesterday, and I way prefer it to the Canon and Nikon competition. What is people's reasoning in this thread for ignoring this superb camera? |
Well, since you asked... the preliminary reviews I've read list a number of serious issues that would prevent me from even considering this camera:
1) 6MP; the 20D is 8MP and offers the same image quality, along with an ISO 3200 option
2) Canon's IS lenses function better than the built-in "anti-shake" feature, and can be set to operate in a single-axis mode when doing panning work. (Think about this: in Canon IS lenses, the motion sensors are located in the lens, which moves significantly more than the body, making detection of even slight movement faster and more accurate. Take a pencil and hold the writing end in your hand. Look at it sideways and barely try to tilt it up and down. Notice how much more the eraser-end moves compared to the writing end in your hand...)
3) Konica-Minolta's anti-shake technology is not visibile in the viewfinder, making it basically "guesswork" to know what effect AS is having. With Canon IS lenses, as soon as I depress the focus button, the viewfinder fluidly stabilizes, as if by magic. It has to be experienced on a long lens to be truly appreciated.
4) The focus motor is built in to the camera instead of the lenses. That means there is a noisy, slow, mechanical linkage between the camera and the lens. The Canon EF mount is completely electronic. And many of their lenses utilize USM (Ultrasonic Motors) for focusing, a technology which is nearly inaudible and incredibly fast.
5) The manual focus ring rotates during auto-focus because of the mechanical linkage to the focus motor in the camera. So how you balance the lens with your left hand becomes an issue. Canon's USM lenses do not move the focus ring during AF, yet they are always full-time manual ready... just grab the focus ring and twist. On the 7D, if you want to switch to manual focus, you have to push and hold a special "Manual Focus" button on the back of the camera.
6) Poor battery life. Only 400 shots per charge is way too few -- and that is with brand-new batteries. As batteries age, the number of shots you get per charge will become even lower.
7) No top-panel LCD display to show your critical camera settings (aperture, shutter speed, shots remaining, ISO, etc.) You have to activate the display on the back (further contributing to excess battery usage and slowing you down if you need to double-check your settings before a shot).
8) Slow turn-on time.
9) Slow buffering / CF write performance ("the Maxxum 7D needs to wait a full 10 seconds or so until space in the buffer has been cleared for the next shot. A single frame takes about 12 seconds to write to the card on the Maxxum 7D, while the 20D takes less than 2 seconds to write a frame to the same card.") And remember, the 20D is writing out more data because it is an 8MP camera!
10) Very slow cross-sync speed (1/125sec when Anti-Shake is turned on, and just 1/160 sec when it's turned off)
11) Sluggish performance ("I found that the Maxxum 7D was not as responsive as I would have liked. I have no hard figures to back this up, but the camera always seemed to be about 1/8th of a second behind what I wanted it to be doing. Usually with a new camera I find after a few hundred frames that I become familiar with the amount of "lag" between when my brain tells my finger to press the shutter release, and when it actually happens. I never could quite get the measure of the Maxxum 7D."). One of the primary reasons to move to a DSLR is responsiveness.
12) Softer images out-of-camera compared to the 20D (requiring more post-processing)
That's quite a "laundry list" of issues IMHO. I didn't even cover some of the other performance issues like 5 frames/second instead of 3, etc. Perhaps you can "justify" them away and make yourself feel "good" about buying into that "superb camera", and that's great. I just don't see it as serious competition to Canon or Nikon. |
Okay, I have some time to address these issues. Firstly, you really need to read a review of a Minolta that has been written on a proper model, this review was based on a pre-production camera... this was made quite clear. Also, the reviewer is a Canon user (which was made clear), and a lot of his gripes are because he is used to owning a Canon, which is not a problem I will have.
I think the most important thing to bear in mind when choosing a new DSLR is to buy according to which lens system you want to buy into. The body itself will probably be in the bin/on EBay within 2 years. Minolta glass is excellent, and although it doesn't have the critical acclaim of the Canon system, it is much better value for money, and will give me the results I'm after. I'm not made of money, and may not be for some time so this is a big consideration. Image stabilisation is a huge consideration for me, as I'm specialising in low-light photography and the fact that the IS is based in the body is a big selling point. Canon have committed themselves to a very expensive IS system which is based in the lens itself, putting the lenses way out of my financial means.
Right, issue by issue...
1) The difference in printing size between 6MP and 8MP is really not that big, about 15% I think? I forget the exact figures, but if you look at the actual prints that these megapixel amounts produce, the difference is very small. The Minolta does in fact have ISO 3200... you really should read more than one review (which was of a pre-production model). The Minolta at high ISOs is arguably less noisy than the Canon 20D... big selling point to me.
2) Your argument is deeply flawed... when you hold a camera, the inevitable shake does not result in the body staying absolutely still while the lens shakes about an axis. Because the shake originates in the hands, I'd have thought that an IS based in the body would actually be better at detecting and correcting shake. You only have to look at this technology in the A1 and A2 cameras to see that it works, and compares very well to the IS I'm currently using in my FZ10 which is based in the lens system. Nowhere I've read does it actually say that Canon's IS works better... your review stated a self-confessed bias on a pre-production model at that. As to single panning, I don't really see this as a great feature... and think that this results in unimaginative compositions which only show motion blur in one axis. This photo wouldn't be possible with single panning:
3) I currently use IS on my FZ10, and the best way of using it is only when the shutter is depressed. If it's on all the time so you can see the effects before you press the shutter, you're actually cutting down on how effectively it can do it's job when the shutter operates. When the IS system is dead-centre, it has the potential to correct the most amount of shake in any direction. So, I'm used to not seeing the results of IS until I've taken the picture. But on the Minolta, I get the added benefit of bars showing me in real time how much the IS is actually working... superb!
4) This point had me almost reconsidering my decision, as focusing noise is an important issue to me. However, the Minolta's shutter is FAR quieter than Canon's and this is far more important than the odd bit of noise when focusing. The Canon gives quite a 'clack' when taking a photo.
5) Again, a poor review. Not all lenses have rotating front elements, just like Canon's lenses of which some have rotating front elements. You can change the settings in the camera, which would allow you to manually focus as long as the auto-focus mechanism is not in operation at that time, without pressing any additional buttons.
6) Get a battery grip, or more spare batteries. This is so not a serious issue.
7) This is only an issue if you're used to looking at an LCD on top of the camera. I'm not. Actually, it makes far more sense to just pull your eye back a tad which will automatically activate the LCD display so I can instantly see what my settings are. The route back to the viewfinder is then much shorter.
8) Turn on time may not be as instantaneous as the 20D, but from what I can gather, by the time you're looking through the viewfinder, it's ready to go.
9) This is only the case when you've filled the buffer, probably by using the 3fps for 9 shots. Probably one of the weakest points of this particular camera, but I don't see this affecting me very often, as I don't use burst mode a lot. If you shoot sports, the Minolta is not the camera for you. Most of the time, the buffer will prevent this from happening, and if I wanted to use burst mode, I'd use JPG instead of RAW which would get round this problem anyway.
10) I can't see this really affecting me. My shots are going to be using available light, or studio strobes. When would this become an issue for people, I genuinely would like to know?
11) Again, it was made clear in the review that he couldn't swear to this... it was just a feeling. And he had a HUGE Canon bias. And it was a pre-production model. I didn't get any of this when I gave it a go, and that's the most important thing... how it feels to you personally.
12) I'm much happier having control over the sharpness, rather than Canon's slightly more aggressive approach. Besides, you can change these things in camera if you want good out of the camera results.
I'm not even going to talk about all the features of this camera that none of the competition have, which is mentioned in the rest of this particular review. But I thought I'd bring some balance back in the forums about this particular camera.
Bob |
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11/21/2004 10:39:28 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by doctornick:
The Minolta is also more expensive than the 20D... |
It's actually cheaper... at least in the UK it is. |
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11/21/2004 01:47:11 PM · #34 |
The minolta looks interesting if a bit ugly :)
If i were buying a camera today it would be a canon 20D.
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11/21/2004 01:56:47 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by marbo:
The minolta looks interesting if a bit ugly :)
If i were buying a camera today it would be a canon 20D. |
Don't know if the Jessops photo really does it justice... it really is a thing of beauty. Can't wait! |
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11/22/2004 04:01:13 PM · #36 |
Looks good from behind.
Like an old tank from the front :)
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