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02/28/2003 03:14:01 PM · #26 |
Interesting posts, for me it is more about the lenses then the camera, With DSLR's there are not stabalization features at least not on Canon. I get better sharpness on my hand held L lens with Stabalization at 600 mm then i do with an older canon lens at much shorter range without stabalization.
so I put my money in the IS lenses and am keeping my D60. just my thoughts |
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03/01/2003 07:16:03 AM · #27 |
Bump! Who's thinking of getting one? I think I may pre-order it today.
Message edited by author 2003-03-01 07:16:24.
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03/01/2003 07:57:18 AM · #28 |
| I got in early at Ritz. They assure me that my camera'll be in the first batch sent out, and that I'll have it at the end of March. |
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03/01/2003 08:46:38 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by Jacko:
Man I've been looking at this camera and drooling big time. My only hope is that Nikon is going to make a big announcement at the PMA show in March of something similar ... or at least get the rumours going. They have to, because they'll be left behind by alot of Nikon users ... me included. Shows my loyalty doesn't it? Heck I've only been committed to Nikon since last Christmas when my wife bought a N80 35mm film camera ... she asked me which brand I preferred because she knew I'd be getting a DSLR and I could use the same lenses.
To top if all off our Canadian dollar can buy a US dollar for $1.50 ... was $1.59. This would make it $2550 with taxes included (close to the Price of a Fuji S2 in US dollars and without sales taxes).
Must ... resist ... the ... temptation ...
My income tax refund will be coming in April. I'll give Nikon until May ... :). My wife is expecting a baby in September ... might be my last big toy in a while. lol |
Jacques,
I have been travelling in the USA these past two weeks and happened to meet a well-known photographer in Washington, DC. He was sporting four Nikon digital cameras (2x D1 and 2x D1x) cameras around his neck at the same time. I cannot even imagine how he was able to move around â call a chiropractor âstatâ!
He told me that Nikon USA had already advised him of two new Nikons due out for later in the year - a low end SLR to compete with the Canon and a new high-end 12-megapixel model for the professionals. He was already preparing to trade-up and was negotiating his trade-ins.
I decided to go to Las Vegas on Monday to attend the PMA show and see what is new. So, if I learn anything or I am able to confirm these rumours, I will let you know.
Cheers,
Michael
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03/01/2003 08:54:59 AM · #30 |
I am going to go for the 10D. I just prefer order it from Penn Camera, they might start to take order next week. They are the serious photo shop in my area so I prefere 'build' with them.
But true I am thinking about preorder on Ritz. |
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03/01/2003 11:34:50 AM · #31 |
I'm personally waiting for DSLR bodies to come down to the $1000 (new) price range before I get anything. I'd also like to have a minimum of 10 megapixels resolution, though something in the 15 range would be nice, but I realize a $1000 camera with a 15MP sensor is probably a long way off. Basically, after I buy my DSLR, I dont want to feel like I have a reason to upgrade for many years.
Brian |
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03/01/2003 11:39:33 AM · #32 |
$1500 for a DSLR is exactly what I was looking for, since I don't mind dishing out another $1500 or so in two years time for a shiny new model, and selling the old one for $500. That's what I've been doing for my computers.
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03/01/2003 12:51:18 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by bdshort:
I'm personally waiting for DSLR bodies to come down to the $1000 (new) price range before I get anything. I'd also like to have a minimum of 10 megapixels resolution, though something in the 15 range would be nice, but I realize a $1000 camera with a 15MP sensor is probably a long way off. Basically, after I buy my DSLR, I dont want to feel like I have a reason to upgrade for many years.
Brian |
At 15mp on a full frame sensor they currently run into serious noise issues and high iso/dynamic range problems. That is probably also the reason that the 10D is 'only' 6mp for its APS size.
Canon was right to go for 12mp with the EOS-1Ds. Look at the lousy performance of the Kodak 14n, even at ISO80 there is too much noise in the shadow areas and much of its ISO range can't be used at full res, because the image quality is too low. They hope to fix it with a post-launch firmware update, but are not sure if they will ever succeed.
Clean high ISO's are so nice, because you can use a cheaper F4 lens instead of a F2.8 / F2 one, with the 'same' results.
Do keep in mind that the 1Ds has enough resolving power at 12mp to push high quality lenses to their optical limits. You need very good glass with that camera, it is not the ccd that might let you down, but the lens you put on it. In that respect there is no reason to go any further with the mp race or the resolution race, else you would need to buy very expensive still non-existent lenses.
The next step is made by Fuji, who made a 20mp SCCD back for their top medium format camera and the Hasselblad H1. That thing is twice as big as a full frame 35mm sensor and given that the SCCD resolves better when the mp's go up, it might be a medium format film killer.
10mp FF might come very soon (cut the 20mp SCCD in half), but don't expect it on an APS size sensor.
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03/01/2003 01:44:45 PM · #34 |
| Its now just a waiting game as I pre-ordered yesterday from Ritz. I'm sticking with Canon but Jacko if your not sure whether to go with Canon/Nikon see what happens at the PMA. You already have the Nikon lenses. Why you may have to wait longer for Nikon equivalent it might be a better investment. Either way you are going to get a good camera. |
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03/01/2003 02:14:42 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by jimmyn4:
Its now just a waiting game as I pre-ordered yesterday from Ritz. I'm sticking with Canon but Jacko if your not sure whether to go with Canon/Nikon see what happens at the PMA. You already have the Nikon lenses. Why you may have to wait longer for Nikon equivalent it might be a better investment. Either way you are going to get a good camera. |
Exactly! (getting a good camera). That's why I love manufacturer competiton. Before I got my 602z I had really wanted to get a DSLR and start collecting high quality lenses but was always torn between pros and cons of Canon v. Nikon. I love the image quality and colors of the Canon D30/60 and now the 10D but I also like Nikon's range of lenses and some of the features of the D100. With Canon's new release being at such a low price point I really can't wait to see what Nikon is going to come out with. Since I've only had the 602 for about 8 months and it performs better than I need it to I won't be upgrading to a DSLR until at least later this year so I'm in no hurry to buy now. But at least when I do finally get one I know that it will be an incredible little camera, regardless of the manufacturer.
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03/01/2003 03:31:39 PM · #36 |
The Canon / Nikon squabble has been a longstanding quandary in the minds of consumers. My personal view is that both are great brands. They both offer superior products and most consumers will be delighted and successful with either product line. But, do you not think that it would be silly to place any "irrevocable" orders or deposits with the PMA starting this very week?
It may be a much better decision to simply wait at least a week or two until the dust settles. Remember, most reviews are biased by the need to sell advertising in the magazines or perhaps on the web sites. I have found that nothing tells the true story as well as holding the product in your hands and shooting with it.
As the saying goes, "lead, follow, or get out of the way". But, sometimes, being an early adopter can be very expensive too. So, caution is wise regardless of which brand is your favourite. I will be happy to post anything meaningful that I can learn from the PMA show once I tour the booths next week.
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03/01/2003 04:16:27 PM · #37 |
Morgan, that's exactly what I plan on doing. I'm going to let the dust settle and see what shakes out in the next few months. However, I was already lining myself up to purchase a DSLR for the summer seaon either way (Nikon D100), so Canon will be the winner for being the leader once again, if Nikon doesn't unvail their plans soon.
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03/01/2003 04:20:16 PM · #38 |
Here is a list of criteria that may be helpful to anyone considering the purchase of a new DSLR.
//www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp
DP Review Criteria Page
Message edited by author 2003-03-01 16:21:39. |
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03/01/2003 05:28:00 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Jacko:
I was already lining myself up to purchase a DSLR for the summer seaon either way (Nikon D100), so Canon will be the winner for being the leader once again, if Nikon doesn't unvail their plans soon. |
I want a set of good zoom lenses. For a Nikon body it will be the AF-S VR 24-120 3.5-5.6 G ED and the AF-S VR 70-200 2.8 G IF ED. The price difference with the equivalent Canon Lenses (for example EF 70-200 2.8 IS USM) still favours the D100 over the 10D.
I hope Nikon will present a good 10D like update of the D100 and I am sold. :)
The VR/IS feature of a lens is a must have for me, because I am an official medal of honour camera shake artist. ;)
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03/01/2003 05:50:37 PM · #40 |
I had the impression opposite, when I looked at the prices (but not for those one) I had the impression that canon had IS on more lenses that nikon had VR and that they were a little cheaper. But I did not checked specirfic lenses or prices.
one thing is that you should check the noise, if noise at 400ISO on the D100 is like 800ISO on the 10D then you gain one stop. not saying it is the case, just something to have in mind.
Message edited by author 2003-03-01 17:51:58. |
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03/01/2003 07:23:54 PM · #41 |
Nikon has less choice when it comes to image stabilization. I have my eyes on the Canon 75-300mm IS USM for approx. $400-500 and the same price for a 28mm - 135mm USM IS. The Nikon 80-400mm VR (vibration reduction) is $1400, however Nikon is coming out with their second VR lens a 24-120mm lens; I don't know the price.
Of course Canon has their IS "L" lenses which will cost you $1000 and up (way up).
Message edited by author 2003-03-01 19:27:16.
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03/01/2003 08:02:59 PM · #42 |
that's what I remembered Jacques and was one of the reason , I am not having any lens right now, I wanted Canon. I globally thought that the lenses were less expensive and with ta larger choice in my range of prices.
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03/01/2003 08:13:20 PM · #43 |
That's why I'm tending towards the Canon too. I have a 28-80mm lens for my Nikon N80 (came with the camera) and 70-300mm lens which cost me $220, so I haven't invested heavily in Nikon yet. I'm going to continue studying the issue (wait a bit to see what Nikon comes out with to counter the 10D). I will dish out about $1000 initially in lenses, then I'll add on as I go.
Originally posted by lionelm:
that's what I remembered Jacques and was one of the reason , I am not having any lens right now, I wanted Canon. I globally thought that the lenses were less expensive and with ta larger choice in my range of prices. |
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03/02/2003 04:17:15 AM · #44 |
I'll quote some prices (including VAT) from my dealer, maybe it is a ripoff in comparisson to US prices;
The Nikkor AF-S VR70-200 2.8 G IF ED is currently listed for 1.949 euro.
I asked the Canon SLR forum what the Canon equivalent could be, they came up with the Canon EF 70-200 2.8 L USM IS, currently listed for 2.455 euro.
I simply want the 2.8 max aperture and need the IS/VR function.
I could not find the Canon equivalent of the VR 24-120 3.5-5.6 G ED, but perhaps I could do with a couple of primes.
In Europe we are generally ripped off by the stores and by the government (19% value added tax).
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03/02/2003 07:21:12 AM · #45 |
I really don't think Nikon makes VR (vibration reduction) with F2.8.
You should contact our good friend Morgan (Michael Morgan) here at DPC. He's da man when it comes to Nikon stuff.
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03/02/2003 07:39:55 AM · #46 |
You mean Morgan (Michael Martin)? :P
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03/02/2003 07:53:52 AM · #47 |
lol, yeah that guy. Okie dokie ... need coffee.
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03/02/2003 08:39:47 AM · #48 |
The 70-200 2.8 VR is a new Nikkor, shipping only for a week now. Ron Reznick has one for tests. And it comes out very good, for a reasonable price. According to him (discussions in the Nikon SLR forum) it also does a good job at AF auto subject tracking.
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03/02/2003 12:05:21 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Jacko:
I really don't think Nikon makes VR (vibration reduction) with F2.8.
You should contact our good friend Morgan (Michael Morgan) here at DPC. He's da man when it comes to Nikon stuff. |
Hi Jacques,
Azrifel is correct. Nikon has introduced several new lenses in the past month or so. They include:
- 70-200mm f/2.8G ED-IF AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor
- 28-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF Zoom-Nikkor
- 12-24mm f/4G ED-IF AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor
- 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor
You will note that two of the models are VR or vibration reduction models. I believe that this now brings the count to three or four Nikkor lenses that are of the VR flavour. There may be more tomorrow at the PMA show.
The model that Azrifel mention is indeed a f2.8, as well as being a AF-S series, which means that it is equipped with the advanced silent wave motors. Its only perceived downfall is that it is a G-series lens, which means that it does not offer a manual aperture ring on the lens barrel. The iris can only be adjusted from the camera body's rotary dials. Finally, others feel that the G-series are of lower optical quality and construction when compared to the D-series AF-S models. I own all of the D-series AF-S models and can attest to there superior quality. I have not seen these new models yet, so I hesitate to draw any conclusions.
Once I fly to Las Vegas tomorrow, I will make a beeline to the Nikon booth and check them out. I hope to be able to make a post or two from my hotel room late tomorrow evening. So, stay tuned.
Cheers, Michael
Nikon USA - What's New Page
For Nikon Canada, including a French language PDF |
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03/02/2003 03:28:11 PM · #50 |
Assuming they did improve the autofocus issues of the D60, then the 10D camera is looking very good indeed. The noise level on dpreview.com shows that at higher ISO, the 10D has a significant improvement over the D60. Considering that D60 sells for $2200 when it was out, this is certainly a very good deal at $1500 ($1999 list price).
Ritz has it listed now for $1500. The problem? You may be on a very long waiting list before you can get the camera.
As far as the electronics go, this is basically a Elan/Rebel camera built on a digital platform, feature wise. So that's about a $500-600 film camera, add a sensor, and charge $1500 :-) Similar to the Canon 1Ds (Canon 1v is a about $1500, add a 12 megapixel sensor, increase the price to $8000)
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