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05/17/2016 09:09:19 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by pixelpig:
I'm thinking of the DNMC voters. |
You! Since when? LOL |
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05/17/2016 10:05:22 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Hmmm ... if we're strictly following the "rules" ... it doesn't say anything about camera choices. Only that "your image as entered must be identical to the original image as it came out of the camera."
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Requirements (Minimal Editing Rules)
You must...
create your entry in JPG format from a single capture. (RAW images may not be used in Minimal Editing).
You may...
rotate your image in 90-degree increments (90, 180, or 270 degrees).
resize your image.
sharpen your image using any global, non-selective sharpening tool.
fully desaturate your image using your editing software's "desaturate," "convert to grayscale" or equivalent function. Customizable tools are not allowed.
use a tool to remove sensor dust, etc from your finished image.
You may not...
make any other adjustments to your image than those listed above. This includes, but is not limited to, cropping, adjusting brightness, hue/saturation, levels, curves, etc. Except as provided above, your image as entered must be identical to the original image as it came out of the camera.
add a border to your image.
add text (including copyright notices) to your image. |
+1
I added the bold...I thought as long as it is done in camera, it's cool. Are we allowed to add physical filters to the fronts of our lenses, do monotone in camera, double exposures by covering the front of the lens during a long exposure, etc?. I thought it was all legal as long as the image entered matches the jpeg that the camera records.
Message edited by author 2016-05-17 22:05:57. |
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05/17/2016 10:22:50 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by RKT:
I thought as long as it is done in camera, it's cool. Are we allowed to add physical filters to the fronts of our lenses, do monotone in camera, double exposures by covering the front of the lens during a long exposure, etc?. I thought it was all legal as long as the image entered matches the jpeg that the camera records. |
You can do any or all of that, yes. The issue is going to be how far overboard shooters *and* voters go in interpreting these streamlined rulesets. If things get out of hand, we'll have to put more explicit restrictions in.
Bottom line, for minimal: ANYTHING you do to alter the light coming into the camera is OK, including the black-card single-shot double exposures, and including putting whatever kind of filters or other junk on or in front of the lens while shooting. For the rest of it, if you just stick to contrast, saturation, ISO, sharpness and such adjustments made before exposure you are going to be fine. It's NOT the intent of the minimal rules to allow after-effects like grunge, fog, whatever post-processing magic the camera's capable of doing that would not otherwise be allowed in Photoshop. I know this seems ambiguous, since we don't allow you to change any of those first set of parameters in Photoshop, but it's devilish hard to find a way to draw the line in an actual rule.
The easiest thing would be for everyone to approach the rule in the spirit it's intended... |
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05/18/2016 01:25:32 AM · #29 |
| I'd kinda forgotten the new rule wordings.... Interesting and useful discussion. |
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05/18/2016 06:22:11 AM · #30 |
| The camera is our tool - using that tool to best effect, with a single push of the shutter button, should be applauded and encouraged. Yes, even in "minimal" ... how much more minimal can you get, especially when you don't even crop. Set up your camera, compose your subject effectively, and resize your image for challenge entry. Can't get much simpler than that. |
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05/18/2016 08:03:35 AM · #31 |
Just for clarification, the special rule on this states, "This is a straight-from-camera challenge: NO CROPPING is allowed and you may only rotate your image in 90-degree increments."
How does this impact the "You may" aspects concerning desaturation and/or sharpening, or does it? If I read the first part strictly then everything (aside from rotating and resizing) must be done in camera. If I read the second part the only additional restriction is that you cannot crop. Which is it? |
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05/18/2016 12:07:33 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by JakeKurdsjuk:
Just for clarification, the special rule on this states, "This is a straight-from-camera challenge: NO CROPPING is allowed and you may only rotate your image in 90-degree increments."
How does this impact the "You may" aspects concerning desaturation and/or sharpening, or does it? If I read the first part strictly then everything (aside from rotating and resizing) must be done in camera. If I read the second part the only additional restriction is that you cannot crop. Which is it? |
It'll be mentioned every time because we had a split membership when we polled crop vs np crop for minimal. We promised to runb them both ways. Accordingly we'll f;ag every minimal for a while at least so people can be alerted as to which version we're using. Cropping/rotating is the only issue addressed with this flag. |
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05/18/2016 09:52:27 PM · #33 |
So no sharpening of the resized entry?
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05/18/2016 11:53:30 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by riot:
So no sharpening of the resized entry? |
Global sharpening is allowed by the rules. The rules for this challenge are exactly as written with a reminder that there is no cropping allowed, and you can only rotate in 90 degree increments. |
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05/19/2016 02:01:23 AM · #35 |
Hmmm...
SC[Langdon] will have to remember that any future minimal challenge may be a person's first. So they will not know about the split vote on cropping, or the way forward decided by SC.
It will be best to approach the wording of "Extra Rules" from that viewpoint.
In the current Minimal challenge, the "Extra rule" as it is written meant to be understood is superfluous, as the extra rules are the normal rules.
What about changing it to "A reminder that this challenge follows the rules, so no cropping allowed."
The "straight from the camera" wording is creating further confusion for some, as it may be taken as an extra rule, and then no sharpening etc would be available. SC meant it to be "as far as cropping goes, it's a straight-from-the-camera challenge".
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05/19/2016 09:06:19 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by tnun:
why not indeed. that is my favourite question. |
the answer is better |
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05/19/2016 01:31:16 PM · #37 |
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05/19/2016 03:06:54 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by tnun:
why not? why not!? |
That's the broad answer.
To see what it would look like, is the narrow one.
To do it is the way forward. |
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05/19/2016 04:28:02 PM · #39 |
I have some questions about minimal editing. If I choose the black and white setting on my sony prior to taking the photo is that legal?
Also, when i am using my iphone (or ipad) to take a photo i first have to pick an app to use as the camera interface. I am using the 645 Pro app which also has the option to pick a film type (including black and white). Would that be legal? Technology is changing so fast that it is difficult to sort it all out. Thanks. |
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05/19/2016 04:36:43 PM · #40 |
good question. that "you may desaturate" without tweaks seems to mean that I may not use any number of my cunning in-camera black and white (jpeg) settings. yea or nay?
Message edited by author 2016-05-19 16:37:03. |
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05/20/2016 10:03:38 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by 2mccs:
I have some questions about minimal editing. If I choose the black and white setting on my sony prior to taking the photo is that legal?
Also, when i am using my iphone (or ipad) to take a photo i first have to pick an app to use as the camera interface. I am using the 645 Pro app which also has the option to pick a film type (including black and white). Would that be legal? Technology is changing so fast that it is difficult to sort it all out. Thanks. |
I was about to ask the same. I'm using a BW photo app that shows the preview in bw and produces proper EXIF. |
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05/20/2016 10:14:27 AM · #42 |
Proper EXIF will be the important factor. For the most part, camera filters used prior-to / during the shot are considered legal.
For me, it adds a bit of drama that might be otherwise absemt in minimal. At the same time, it does take out a bit of challenge - but I, for one, have used pre-shot filters in minimal:
However, I think apps that flip/duplicate/warp/mirror the content of images during the shot might be up for debate.
The topic has been discussed by SC and I will bring it up once again. As for now, as long as the EXIF has been good, the image has been allowed. However, to keep this site more about the photographer rather than the technology, we will need to clarify what is / is not too far at some point.
Originally posted by tome:
Originally posted by 2mccs:
I have some questions about minimal editing. If I choose the black and white setting on my sony prior to taking the photo is that legal?
Also, when i am using my iphone (or ipad) to take a photo i first have to pick an app to use as the camera interface. I am using the 645 Pro app which also has the option to pick a film type (including black and white). Would that be legal? Technology is changing so fast that it is difficult to sort it all out. Thanks. |
I was about to ask the same. I'm using a BW photo app that shows the preview in bw and produces proper EXIF. |
Message edited by author 2016-05-20 10:22:02. |
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