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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Masters - Scores and was it worth it?
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 10/08/2004 05:34:20 AM · #26
Originally posted by e301:
Does anyone actually think we learned anything from this? ...

I'm sure someone does, but I don't think so if you are referring to the challenge itself. If you are referring the entries I am sure there are several who learned much in creating the entries, voting and in commenting on them -- but no more than would have been available to learn in any other free study.

In short, it succeeded in what it was created to do -- provide a larger than normal number of very well executed images designed to win on DPC.

No surprises.

David
 10/08/2004 05:35:44 AM · #27
I think it helped the scores. All those 7's were pretty unique but I don't think any one photo was far Superior than there usually is.

I think it was all those threads that started saying
'wow best pictures ever man'
'I can't believe any of these will score under a 7'
'Anyone in their right minds will not give a 5 or lower to any of these photographs'

Things like that really effect voting.
10/08/2004 05:43:50 AM · #28
Woo hoo and a 1, 2 to the UK!
Congrats to all 3 ribbon winners!
 10/08/2004 05:55:33 AM · #29
Personally I loved this challenge. The standards were exceptional and I haven't enjoyed voting on a challenge so much for a LONG time.

John
 10/08/2004 05:56:45 AM · #30
And no 10D, 300D or D70 amongst them - in fact a large number of the top shots are now the highest scores submitted with their camera.

E
 10/08/2004 06:41:07 AM · #31
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by Natator:
...With the Master's challenge you get to 28th place before you get below 7.0...


LOL, yup, that's me, number 28. Missed it by that much.


Who'd you call on your shoe phone?

As with all challenges the results are not to the liking of everyone, however I picked number one. My number two finished in the top 10. With so many different styles it's hard to compare and score.
 10/08/2004 07:14:43 AM · #32
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
What the heck happened to "Megalomania" and "Interlude"!!!! Those are the best two photos in there!


I agree, I gave them both 10's (although I thought Peace Please was the best of them all). Unfortunately, what I didn't see was any big strays from the "formula". Still, this was easily my worst finish, but I still improved my overall average :)
 10/08/2004 07:28:05 AM · #33
Originally posted by hopper:

I agree, I gave them both 10's (although I thought Peace Please was the best of them all). Unfortunately, what I didn't see was any big strays from the "formula". Still, this was easily my worst finish, but I still improved my overall average :)


Peace Please was one of my top 3 as well although so was Bobsters. I learned alot from the 107 comments I recieved and I plan on going through every shot and read the "What Was Done" and the comments to learn further. That and the fact that this caused such a buzz on DPC are the overiding factors in my mind as to why this was worth it.
 10/08/2004 08:54:08 AM · #34
From a statistical standpoint, this challenge is a huge "outlier", and almost any statistician who was analyzing DPC would ignore this challenge so as not to skew their findings.

It was a significant change from any other challenge on DPC (even marked as "experimental" in the description), and having the results "intermingled" with the rest of "DPC normalcy" will have long-lasting implications.

Some simple examples:
BobsterLobster beat his old "personal best score" by nearly a full point (0.960) -- even though he has participated in a whopping 95 challenges already! The highest-rated photo for the Nikon D100 has a red ribbon, followed by 6 blue ribbons. The highest-rated photo for the Olympus E-10 has a yellow ribbon, followed by 4 blue ribbons, and the score difference between the highest and second-highest is 0.3407; prior to these challenge results the difference was 0.0344 -- that is an increase of 10X! The Canon 10D shows a page full of ribbons, with a single non-ribbon shot from this challenge.

There are tons of other statistics that could be cited (a new highest "lowest score" of 5.631, a huge difference from the previous "highest lowest" of 4.425 from back in February 2003; 72 average comments per entry vs. 38 from back in 2002, etc.), but the point is that there are a huge number of statistical anomalies as a result of this challenge and they have now permanently changed the future of the DPC.

Message edited by author 2004-10-08 09:04:25.
 10/08/2004 08:57:31 AM · #35
Some observations/comments

Exactly what I expected. In one place, there is an incredible collection of images to peruse and learn from.

Yeah, the votes were inflated, and there are some statistical implications, but do they really matter? It was still a competition, and nobody had a lock.

Comments reign supreme! This is where you can really learn. Has there ever been a challenge where the images on the next to last page averaged 50+ comments? And finding so many more meaty comments that go beyond 'wow' and 'nice photo'?

A tutorial-response to the 'Why did my shot finish so low?' threads Every challenge spawns these threads. Well, if you've ever wondered, here is a perfect case study as to what it takes to score well, produced by the people who have scored well, and commented by the ones who give out the scores. If you have questions about your entries in other challenges, simply refer back to this one and compare your work against these. This challenge was a fairly exact encapsulation of how DPC works.

All in all, I think we'll all be able to come away from this better off than had this challenge not been run.

Thanks to all involved, those who put it together (and endured all the teeth-gnashing that followed its announcement), to those who entered, to those who voted, and commented! I sincerely appreciate the effort!!

Skip

btw: The only interesting twist I would suggest would be to offer a scoring system the way the college teams are ranked: You get to pick a first place image, then a second place, on down the line. Voters would have to be a lot more judicial having only one first place vote to give, rather than being able to throw out a bunch of 10s or 1s...
10/08/2004 09:11:17 AM · #36
Originally posted by EddyG:
...there are a huge number of statistical anomalies as a result of this challenge and they have now permanently changed the future of the DPC.


Absotively! I only managed 21% placement (my worst showing by a HUGE margin), but that score will actually improve my overall average, as it will for probably everyone who entered. I think it's funny that an over-6 score can be so close to last place.
 10/08/2004 09:17:36 AM · #37
i thought it was great its so much fun when all the entries are great
10/08/2004 09:29:38 AM · #38
I think this challenge was a very good idea and it definitely worked for me as an observer and may have even helped me. As I see it, my biggest problem as a photographer is finding inspiration. Seeing all of these fantastic photos really makes me want to get out there and find something to shoot.

I would like to see a similar challenge but using the basic editing rules. A number of the entries in this first challenge seemed a little over photoshopped for my tastes.
 10/08/2004 09:56:42 AM · #39
Originally posted by sailracer_98:
A number of the entries in this first challenge seemed a little over photoshopped for my tastes.


'Over-photoshopping' scores well, that's all there is to that. Otherwise we not all have done it.

I ponder on whether this is merely the application of old black and white techniques to colour shots, enabled by the digital realm; or whether we are now producing something closer to graphic imagery than photography. Or is that what people were always doing with black and white shots anyway? No answers ...

E
 10/08/2004 10:34:53 AM · #40
Originally posted by e301:

I ponder on whether this is merely the application of old black and white techniques to colour shots, enabled by the digital realm; or whether we are now producing something closer to graphic imagery than photography. Or is that what people were always doing with black and white shots anyway? No answers ...


There probably are no answers- just opinions and tastes. I am a fan of the dodge/burn techniques for creating a surreal feel, both in PS and the dark room, but there have been so many images lately featuring this technique that I think it has begun to wear on me.
 10/08/2004 07:36:20 PM · #41
Originally posted by sailracer_98:
I would like to see a similar challenge but using the basic editing rules. A number of the entries in this first challenge seemed a little over photoshopped for my tastes.


Neat idea, I second that. Not immediately, but maybe when they have the next Masters Challenge.
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