Frames is kinda unique isn't it?

12/13/2015 10:09:25 AM · #53

Originally posted by Neat:

Ok so now all frames count, after the challenge specifically stated,
You must prominently feature at least one actual, physical frame (such as would be used to frame art or a mirror) It's pretty specific to me, so i don't get the rule change, i entered a frame but I really shouldn't of bothered. I would of preferred more of an open interpretation.

From Paul
" DQs will happen where physical frames are not present in the scene. That is one of the parameters of the rules for this challenge "

That doesn't change the rule. The only issue I see is that many interpreted the "such as would be used to frame art or a mirror" as "must be used to frame art or a mirror". There are many other types of physical frame that would meet this challenge. I would assume from the points Paul made, that those that have no physical frame will still be DQ'ed. I think the mistake in this challenge was not simply stating that it must be a physical frame.

Message edited by author 2015-12-13 10:09:47.

12/13/2015 12:16:46 PM · #54

I have almost three times as many views as votes and I don't think there's any question about the legality of my image:)

Elaine

Canon EOS R5

12/13/2015 02:01:40 PM · #55

Originally posted by Paul:

There's no problem and no ambiguity in my message.

Thanks

Paul

No problem or ambiguity, just wondering why you feel it was wrong to have a challenge with a specific requirement. And why SC will be "liberal" with what is acceptable as a physical frame.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

12/13/2015 02:21:38 PM · #56

The recent spate of "or else" DQ challenges have been suggested by members. We have not always been comfortable enforcing those DQs, as is the case with the current challenge.

Tiny

Apple iPad mini 4

12/13/2015 05:10:59 PM · #57

Originally posted by jagar:

Ha, I wonder if site council will have the balls to DQ those images that don't use a frame that would be used to frame art or a mirror.
I reckon if one makes such a pathetically silly and rigid rule, you should have to go all the way, if not you might all be turned into toads.

toads on the way

RyanW

Nikon D7000

12/15/2015 02:50:30 PM · #58

still have a higher 'comments' than 'score'...but the gap is narrowing bit by bit ;)

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

12/17/2015 04:59:14 PM · #59

Originally posted by jagar:

How else could you interpret this: "You must prominently feature at least one actual, physical frame (such as would be used to frame art or a mirror) in your composition. Failure to do so is grounds for DQ."

Originally posted by FromDaRock:

I read "such as" as equivalent to "for example ", not,"must be ", which I think many are interpreting it as if my score is any indication.

You must prominently feature at least one actual, physical frame

The "such as" is to eliminate the ridiculous idea that any other type of frame should be used, yet some *still* tried.

Originally posted by FromDaRock:

You are supposed to vote as if every image is valid, since DNMC = DQ in this challenge, the voters should NOT be scoring low due to a perceived DQ since that is up to the SC to decide. So like I said in my original post, vote like it's a Free Study, i.e. ignore the challenge description and simply vote what you think the photo is worth and let the SC determine if it meets the challenge.

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

That's really not right, though. The voting guidelines say you should bear the challenge topic/description in mind when you are voting, so it's understandable that many will be voting down the "no frame" images, and it really has nothing to do with their "legality". That vote-as-if-legal clause is more designed to discourage voters assuming an image was PROCESSED illegally and voting it down, when the poor photographer had actually found a brilliant (and legal) work-around.

Truly, IMNSHO, if there's no frame, it shouldn't even rate a 1. The extra ruleset is *quite* clear.

Message edited by author 2015-12-17 16:59:44.

nygold

Nikon D5000

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G

12/17/2015 08:15:44 PM · #60

It's almost over.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/17/2015 08:24:38 PM · #61

Originally posted by nygold:

It's almost over.

12/17/2015 10:35:48 PM · #62

Originally posted by nygold:

It's almost over.

So far only one dq. Surprising.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

12/18/2015 09:20:04 AM · #63

Originally posted by tanguera:

The recent spate of "or else" DQ challenges have been suggested by members. We have not always been comfortable enforcing those DQs, as is the case with the current challenge.

If "you" were willing to let the description of the challenge stand, "you" should be willing to enforce the DQ.

RyanW

Nikon D7000

12/18/2015 09:42:09 AM · #64

Originally posted by PennyStreet:

Originally posted by tanguera:
The recent spate of "or else" DQ challenges have been suggested by members. We have not always been comfortable enforcing those DQs, as is the case with the current challenge.

If "you" were willing to let the description of the challenge stand, "you" should be willing to enforce the DQ.

Agreed.
If you make a rule, hold fast.
If people complain, it's in black and grey on the front page.

Elaine

Canon EOS R5

12/18/2015 10:56:45 AM · #65

Originally posted by PennyStreet:

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

12/18/2015 11:09:47 AM · #66

Just to be clear, WE (SC) did not propose the DQ flag, YOU (members) did. And WE have nothing to do with choosing challenges, their editing ruleset, or whether or not the challenge is posted exactly as written by the person suggesting the challenge. That is solely up to Langdon.

SC only has discretion to enforce the challenge as we interpret it. WE felt that the use of the words "such as" gave us sufficient leeway to not DQ a bunch of images which DID prominently include "frames" in them.

We felt that this was the right thing to do, and we are ok with making the tough decisions which are not always popular.

We are also going to discourage any further "or else" DQ challenges (unless it is for a technical element such as shutter speed, etc.), as we feel that it is up to the voters to decide if something is DNMC in a "narrowly" defined challenge.

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

12/18/2015 11:16:58 AM · #67

Originally posted by Lydia:

Originally posted by Tiberius:

Originally posted by vawendy:
We've had them before. They're few and far between. I think one had rubber duckies in it.

my first DQ ever. the grapes were not green enough...

edit: and i'm in...

Wow golly!
That was... Before my time.

I'm happy to see that we've relaxed a bit.
Although I do see the relevance of the ... whole of it.

I can't speak for anyone else in this regard, but this is one of the few challenges that I really liked. If you didn't include what was specified, you were ousted... and I did not see one "Shoehorn" image in the lot.

What we need are more of these.

Ray

Sony Sonnar FE 2.8 35mm ZA

12/18/2015 01:10:45 PM · #68

speaking of ducks .... look what happened to me when I didn't follow the rules exactly.

jagar

Samsung Galaxy S9/S9+

12/18/2015 02:09:03 PM · #69

Well if in the end SC has learned a lesson then I'm ok with that. Silly restrictive rules that limit creativity and enhance the already obsessive behaviour of some to look for reasons to DNMC an image won't help this site, why accept them in the first place, unless that is you want this sites name to change to Disneypchallenge.

Message edited by author 2015-12-18 14:13:57.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/18/2015 03:08:21 PM · #70

"Such as" means "for example" and is not restrictive or exclusive to the proposed suggestions. We DQ'd any pictures which did not include a "physical frame" and did not DQ those which did include one. What's the problem?

Voigtlander Ultron 35mm f/1.7 Aspherical MF Wide Angle - Black

12/18/2015 03:13:12 PM · #71

Originally posted by jagar:

Well if in the end SC has learned a lesson then I'm ok with that. Silly restrictive rules that limit creativity and enhance the already obsessive behaviour of some to look for reasons to DNMC an image won't help this site, why accept them in the first place, unless that is you want this sites name to change to Disneypchallenge.

Lessons can be learned all around ;)

Paul

Leica SL

12/18/2015 03:55:59 PM · #72

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Absolutely bang on - and we explained what we'd do in relation to apply the extra rule well before rollover.

As the General asks - what's the problem?

insteps

Ricoh GR III

Fujifilm XF 16mm f/1.4 R WR

12/18/2015 04:19:42 PM · #73

I think the concern is in having SC choose winners and losers. Maybe that's a little extreme but DQ based on content is a slippery slope. We should trust the voters to determine if an image works for a particular challenge. Explaining rules once images are being voted on doesn't seem optimal. More might have entered the challenge if the rules were stated clearly up front.

I'm not looking to point blame just stated my concerns.

12/18/2015 04:24:03 PM · #74

Originally posted by insteps:

Exactly, which is why we will no longer have these narrow definition challenges be DQable. Voters should determine which image best fits the challenge.

FromDaRock

Canon EOS-5D Mark III