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06/08/2015 02:29:33 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by Mike:
why do all other professionals have to act professional except the police? |
You mean like professional athletes, politicians, military personnel and the list goes on.
Ray |
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06/08/2015 02:34:49 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I really can't believe your attitude towards the people that protect our citizens day in and day out with great risk to their well being. Sure, just like any profession, there are exceptions. I'm certainly thankful for law enforcement - the chaos without them doing their jobs would be a nightmare. |
My attitude toward police is the same as my attitude toward everyone else. I refuse to say that one is more valuable than the other. |
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06/08/2015 02:39:50 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by Mike:
why do all other professionals have to act professional except the police? |
You mean like professional athletes, politicians ...
Ray |
At least when athletes and politicians act unprofessionally the consequences are rarely instantly fatal to the citizenry.
To paraphrase the beer commercials, "with great power comes great responsibility," and I think it's perfectly appropriate to hold them to the highest standard of professional behavior.
Likewise for doctors, commercial pilots, train engineers, and Uber drivers, or anyone else whose actions might immediately determine whether you live or die. |
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06/08/2015 02:40:28 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
To paraphrase the beer commercials, "with great power comes great responsibility," |
that was Spider-man's Uncle Ben who said that :P
Message edited by author 2015-06-08 14:44:15. |
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06/08/2015 02:40:29 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I really can't believe your attitude towards the people that protect our citizens day in and day out with great risk to their well being. Sure, just like any profession, there are exceptions. I'm certainly thankful for law enforcement - the chaos without them doing their jobs would be a nightmare. |
The police like the idiot in this video, the cop who shot that guy in NC, most of the New Orleans PD, the guys who ran Rampart division of the LAPD, the Albuquerque PD and so on, aren't doing the job of law enforcement, they're making it up as they go, creating the rules as they wish and worst of all, covering up for each other when things go wrong. People are NOT safer because they're on duty, quite the opposite.
Message edited by author 2015-06-08 14:44:42. |
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06/08/2015 04:44:42 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Jackson_H:
Originally posted by Mike:
why do all other professionals have to act professional except the police? |
Really!! Yeah I'm sure all of those executive CEO's, politicians, ministers, pilots, military, truck drivers ext..ect..ect.. are ALL very professional. There are good and bad in every profession.
I have spent over half my life in law enforcement and know this first hand. Its easy to critisize the police from a video but the fact is you weren't there or know the cirumstances that led up to the incident. Its easy to criticize when its not you at the end of a gun, knife, being spit at, fecal matter thrown at you, have your family threatened on a daily basis or watch your friends/co-workers stabbed within an inch or their lives. Are there people in law enforcement that shouldn't be there, of course, but the overwheliming majority of law enforcement are good hard working people. |
The difference is that I can't be a power tripping asshole and then cite "circumstance" as justification for my otherwise unacceptable behavior.
I'd never claim that law enforcement is an easy job, far from it in fact, but that reality shouldn't allow carte blanc on behavior. |
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06/08/2015 04:50:06 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Mike:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Yep, it's certainly a cakewalk for them. |
if only they knew it was a potentially dangerous job when they signed up. |
... and you conveniently left the original part of the quote out of what I was responding to, which was the following:
Originally posted by Mike:
... spare me. anyone's life is in danger just as much as a police officer every single day, police risk death or injury by a specific cause, but I would be shocked to find, statistically speaking their chances of dying are or getting hurt, are greater than a lot of other professions.
I'm sorry to hear their job is so stressful. if its that much to bear, maybe they ought to find a new profession. |
I really can't believe your attitude towards the people that protect our citizens day in and day out with great risk to their well being. Sure, just like any profession, there are exceptions. I'm certainly thankful for law enforcement - the chaos without them doing their jobs would be a nightmare. |
Like Baltimore in May |
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06/08/2015 04:51:39 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I really can't believe your attitude towards the people that protect our citizens day in and day out with great risk to their well being. Sure, just like any profession, there are exceptions. I'm certainly thankful for law enforcement - the chaos without them doing their jobs would be a nightmare. |
The police like the idiot in this video, the cop who shot that guy in NC, most of the New Orleans PD, the guys who ran Rampart division of the LAPD, the Albuquerque PD and so on, aren't doing the job of law enforcement, they're making it up as they go, creating the rules as they wish and worst of all, covering up for each other when things go wrong. People are NOT safer because they're on duty, quite the opposite. |
Note that in three states the CDC found the most distinctive cause of death was "Legal Intervention" New Mexico was one of the three. |
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06/08/2015 04:58:27 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by FromDaRock:
As for all your comments about the gun, knife, etc..., that isn't this situation, other than the possibility that someone spat at him. What happened at some other time can't be used as an excuse for your behaviour right now. If you can't approach each situation basied on it's own circumstances, then you are bound to react inappropriately. |
When officers respond to an incident they have to instantly assume there is a crime being committed. These officers that responded didn't have the luxury of seeing this video and know what they were walking into. So every incident is as I described above. His verbiage was a poor choice and that can have an effect on how people will respond to his instructions, but regardless, how many times did the officer have to tell them to leave the area. How many warnings does it take before he has to respond. Once he did respond and attempted to restrain the girl he was rushed by several of the individuals. I don't know about any of you but I could not defend myself physically with those odds. So comes the next level of force, he draws his weapon, everyone runs away and the level of force goes back down to hands on.
Just and fyi....I too am only commenting on what I can see in this video. |
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06/08/2015 05:00:13 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by Mike:
why do all other professionals have to act professional except the police? |
You mean like professional athletes, politicians ...
Ray |
At least when athletes and politicians act unprofessionally the consequences are rarely instantly fatal to the citizenry.
To paraphrase the beer commercials, "with great power comes great responsibility," and I think it's perfectly appropriate to hold them to the highest standard of professional behavior.
Likewise for doctors, commercial pilots, train engineers, and Uber drivers, or anyone else whose actions might immediately determine whether you live or die.
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... surely you jest when in your reference to politicians. I can think of a dozen military interventions that were initiated solely on the decision of politicians... and the ensuing fatalities make the undertakings of all police activities pale by comparison.
I do also seem to recall recent trials where athletes were found culpable of another person's death... or does that not count.
Ray
Message edited by author 2015-06-08 17:04:26. |
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06/08/2015 05:03:00 PM · #36 |
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06/08/2015 05:05:53 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
... surely you jest when in your reference to politicians. I can think of a dozen wars that were initiated solely on the decision of politicians... |
People don't die on the day politicians make the decision, and (in this country) they don't shoot you (immediately, anyway) for refusing to serve in war.
Right now, in the US, one out of every thirteen gun-inflicted homicides is at the hands of the police. That seems like a lot, even considering that the vast majority may be justified as legitimate self-defense. |
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06/08/2015 05:08:48 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
... surely you jest when in your reference to politicians. I can think of a dozen wars that were initiated solely on the decision of politicians... |
People don't die on the day politicians make the decision, and (in this country) they don't shoot you (immediately, anyway) for refusing to serve in war.
Right now, in the US, one out of every thirteen gun-inflicted homicides is at the hands of the police. That seems like a lot, even considering that the vast majority may be justified as legitimate self-defense. |
Benghazi
“I sometimes wish that people would put a little more emphasis upon the observance of the law than they do upon its enforcement”
- Calvin Coolidge
Follow the law, listen to instruction, don't be a threat to the public, my co-workers, or my personal safety, and we all go home alive!!
Message edited by author 2015-06-08 17:11:56. |
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06/08/2015 05:21:30 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
People don't die on the day politicians make the decision... |
A last minute appeal for clemency by someone on death row is denied... guess what happens then.
Are mistakes made... is there room for improvement... most assuredly there is.
Sadly, in the rush to pass judgement, we as a society are quite capable of lumping all of the law enforcement into the same group. It may come as quite a shock to some in here, but the police population is just as diverse as the general population and the behaviour of some is most definitely atrocious. DO they all deserve to be lumped together... definitely not.
Let's work on weeding out the bad apples and striving for a closer rapport with the population they serve.
Ray |
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06/08/2015 05:32:30 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I really can't believe your attitude towards the people that protect our citizens day in and day out with great risk to their well being. Sure, just like any profession, there are exceptions. I'm certainly thankful for law enforcement - the chaos without them doing their jobs would be a nightmare. |
The police like the idiot in this video, the cop who shot that guy in NC, most of the New Orleans PD, the guys who ran Rampart division of the LAPD, the Albuquerque PD and so on, aren't doing the job of law enforcement, they're making it up as they go, creating the rules as they wish and worst of all, covering up for each other when things go wrong. People are NOT safer because they're on duty, quite the opposite. |
Ok. Paint all law enforcement with the same brush then I guess. Best of luck to you ... |
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06/08/2015 05:52:24 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
It may come as quite a shock to some in here, but the police population is just as diverse as the general population ... |
Maybe in Canada ... I sincerely doubt that's true in the vast majority of police forces in the US.
Originally posted by RayEthier:
... and the behaviour of some is most definitely atrocious. DO they all deserve to be lumped together... definitely not.
Let's work on weeding out the bad apples and striving for a closer rapport with the population they serve.
Ray |
I'm with you on this part ... |
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06/08/2015 06:34:15 PM · #42 |
| Let's take 'er over to rant, that's where this really belongs... No offense to anybody, but... |
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06/08/2015 07:07:33 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Ok. Paint all law enforcement with the same brush then I guess. Best of luck to you ... |
but when the police do that its justified right?
Message edited by author 2015-06-08 19:08:00. |
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06/08/2015 07:13:30 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Jackson_H:
Originally posted by FromDaRock:
As for all your comments about the gun, knife, etc..., that isn't this situation, other than the possibility that someone spat at him. What happened at some other time can't be used as an excuse for your behaviour right now. If you can't approach each situation basied on it's own circumstances, then you are bound to react inappropriately. |
When officers respond to an incident they have to instantly assume there is a crime being committed. These officers that responded didn't have the luxury of seeing this video and know what they were walking into. So every incident is as I described above. His verbiage was a poor choice and that can have an effect on how people will respond to his instructions, but regardless, how many times did the officer have to tell them to leave the area. How many warnings does it take before he has to respond. Once he did respond and attempted to restrain the girl he was rushed by several of the individuals. I don't know about any of you but I could not defend myself physically with those odds. So comes the next level of force, he draws his weapon, everyone runs away and the level of force goes back down to hands on.
Just and fyi....I too am only commenting on what I can see in this video. |
Before I risk generalizing further. Are you saying that what the cop did in that video is acceptible?
The video that I watched, the girl walked away, she ran her mouth yeah so the cop goes after her and smashes her face into the ground! The cop needed to show restraint. Oh right he had to teach her a lesson..
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06/08/2015 07:17:21 PM · #45 |
| Maybe some law enforcement needs to learn it isn't their job to discipline. |
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06/08/2015 08:11:48 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by Mike:
Originally posted by Jackson_H:
Originally posted by FromDaRock:
As for all your comments about the gun, knife, etc..., that isn't this situation, other than the possibility that someone spat at him. What happened at some other time can't be used as an excuse for your behaviour right now. If you can't approach each situation basied on it's own circumstances, then you are bound to react inappropriately. |
When officers respond to an incident they have to instantly assume there is a crime being committed. These officers that responded didn't have the luxury of seeing this video and know what they were walking into. So every incident is as I described above. His verbiage was a poor choice and that can have an effect on how people will respond to his instructions, but regardless, how many times did the officer have to tell them to leave the area. How many warnings does it take before he has to respond. Once he did respond and attempted to restrain the girl he was rushed by several of the individuals. I don't know about any of you but I could not defend myself physically with those odds. So comes the next level of force, he draws his weapon, everyone runs away and the level of force goes back down to hands on.
Just and fyi....I too am only commenting on what I can see in this video. |
Before I risk generalizing further. Are you saying that what the cop did in that video is acceptible?
The video that I watched, the girl walked away, she ran her mouth yeah so the cop goes after her and smashes her face into the ground! The cop needed to show restraint. Oh right he had to teach her a lesson.. |
No, your right she does walk away. I guess Im having more of a problem with labeling law enforcement as a whole. As I said before I believe most of the men and women in law enforcement are good people who do a good job and follow policy. The officer should have just let the girl walk (based off of what I can see in the video) and the girl should have followed the officers instructions and moved away from the area the first time he asked.
It seems to be a trend lately, people challenging law enforcement to react. Let see if I can be the next victim of police misconduct. Make me a star!
And yes I agree that its not our job to discipline, that belongs to the courts. |
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06/08/2015 08:34:58 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I really can't believe your attitude towards the people that protect our citizens day in and day out with great risk to their well being. Sure, just like any profession, there are exceptions. I'm certainly thankful for law enforcement - the chaos without them doing their jobs would be a nightmare. |
The police like the idiot in this video, the cop who shot that guy in NC, most of the New Orleans PD, the guys who ran Rampart division of the LAPD, the Albuquerque PD and so on, aren't doing the job of law enforcement, they're making it up as they go, creating the rules as they wish and worst of all, covering up for each other when things go wrong. People are NOT safer because they're on duty, quite the opposite. |
Ok. Paint all law enforcement with the same brush then I guess. Best of luck to you ... |
I didn't paint them all with the same brush. If you bothered to pay attention, all of those are instances of police going overboard and/or departments that had a culture of corruption and brutality. A documented history.
Message edited by author 2015-06-08 20:43:11. |
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06/08/2015 08:40:00 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Jackson_H:
Originally posted by FromDaRock:
As for all your comments about the gun, knife, etc..., that isn't this situation, other than the possibility that someone spat at him. What happened at some other time can't be used as an excuse for your behaviour right now. If you can't approach each situation basied on it's own circumstances, then you are bound to react inappropriately. |
When officers respond to an incident they have to instantly assume there is a crime being committed. These officers that responded didn't have the luxury of seeing this video and know what they were walking into. So every incident is as I described above. His verbiage was a poor choice and that can have an effect on how people will respond to his instructions, but regardless, how many times did the officer have to tell them to leave the area. How many warnings does it take before he has to respond. Once he did respond and attempted to restrain the girl he was rushed by several of the individuals. I don't know about any of you but I could not defend myself physically with those odds. So comes the next level of force, he draws his weapon, everyone runs away and the level of force goes back down to hands on.
Just and fyi....I too am only commenting on what I can see in this video. |
Hah... Yeah I've seen that one before the cops telling people to leave and then arresting the people leaving for "fleeing". Damned if you do damned if you don't. All you have to do is leave the area while standing still. |
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06/08/2015 08:58:11 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Hah... Yeah I've seen that one before the cops telling people to leave and then arresting the people leaving for "fleeing". Damned if you do damned if you don't. All you have to do is leave the area while standing still. |
I've experienced the police approaching a crowd from all four sides and then ordering them to "disperse." I've also experienced mounted police using their (large) horses to "move" a crowd peacefully barricading a building. |
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06/08/2015 09:01:48 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Hah... Yeah I've seen that one before the cops telling people to leave and then arresting the people leaving for "fleeing". Damned if you do damned if you don't. All you have to do is leave the area while standing still. |
I've experienced the police approaching a crowd from all four sides and then ordering them to "disperse." I've also experienced mounted police using their (large) horses to "move" a crowd peacefully barricading a building. |
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrDQrb5PITc
Message edited by author 2015-06-08 21:01:56. |
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