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05/27/2015 11:37:22 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by Zita: Originally posted by smardaz: ...sometime between now and the end of time. |
Well, that is discouraging. Thanx. |
If you really want critique on a particular image, you can always start a forum discussion with that image and a request for critique. It seems like those generally get a pretty solid response. |
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05/27/2015 11:58:09 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by Jules1x: ...you can always start a forum discussion with that image and a request for critique. It seems like those generally get a pretty solid response. |
Thanks, Julee. I have noticed that some folks have done that, and that they actually do get good critique not just comments. It is an option I will contemplate considering what Jason revealed about the delay factor for a critique request.
Thanx! |
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05/27/2015 12:53:47 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by smardaz: Jeb, I totally understand where you're coming from, I think where we have to agree to disagree is when it comes to THIS site. In my opinion, let me emphasize, just my opinion, any other site is good for posting images where you only want impressions, thoughts, etc. Here, however, especially when it comes to posting in a challenge, you are asking people "Hey, I took a picture, tell me how I did on a scale of 1 to 10" I mean that just invites people to tell you how you could have done it better. Sure, you can only post to your portfolio but I still think that attitude spills over. |
Yah.....it seems that most people comment in that manner. It is what it is. I am being pedantic in differentiating between a comment and a critique, and it's just like the 55mph speed limit.....yeah, it's there, but people do what they will. Obviously, it's not illegal to critique, (Lest I get caught in a pedantic trap of my own doing!) but most commenters will offer up suggestions if they feel they have something to offer.
My specific wish for the type of comment that I'd like is just that......a dream in a perfect world. I pretty much tick the box as helpful every time because I am appreciative anytime someone takes the time to stop in their voting/commenting to pass along their thoughts.
And life at DPC soldiers on......8~)
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05/27/2015 01:14:20 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb: I am being pedantic in differentiating between a comment and a critique ... |
Perhaps so ... personally I think people can be overly-sensitive to how something is phrased. For example, I don't find a substantive difference between "I would have liked to see her face better" (opinion) and "Using a fill-flash might have brought out more detail in her face" (technical suggestion made without knowing actual conditions), but I bet a lot of people would find the former fine and be insulted by the latter. Each is essentially a statement of what the viewer liked (or didn't), and I don't expect or want any more than that. I don't see where a technical suggestion is an insult -- it's just an expression/suggestion of how the image might have been taken/processed differently, and I thought we were here to learn from each other ...
If your comment takes the form of you (and the photographer) should be fine ...
Also, a reminder that we have two or three Tutorials on commenting which might be worth reading/reviewing -- look under the Learn > Tutorials menu. |
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05/27/2015 01:44:02 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by GeneralE: Perhaps so ... personally I think people can be overly-sensitive to how something is phrased. For example, I don't find a substantive difference between "I would have liked to see her face better" (opinion) and "Using a fill-flash might have brought out more detail in her face" (technical suggestion made without knowing actual conditions), but I bet a lot of people would find the former fine and be insulted by the latter. Each is essentially a statement of what the viewer liked (or didn't), and I don't expect or want any more than that. I don't see where a technical suggestion is an insult -- it's just an expression/suggestion of how the image might have been taken/processed differently, and I thought we were here to learn from each other ... |
Not necessarily talking about that type of comment. The two types of comments that I am specifically referring to are:
1.) I don't like the way you used insert technique/plug-in here.
2.) I find the Insert minor detail here distracting.
The distracting one bugs me more because it's generally something insignificant that someone decides to make a fuss over that really isn't that big of a deal OR, and often this is the case, the image was a spur-of-the-moment thing where the distracting element was completely beyond the photog's control.....it was either go with the distraction, or no shot.
Actually I'm finding this to be a terrific discussion in general. Thanks for the different perspectives, people!
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05/27/2015 02:19:59 PM · #31 |
Everyone belittles the attaboys. Enough of those, and from the right people,
and you know which way to continue- a million times more welcomed than a "your horizon is off" comment.
It's great to get someone's impression of how your shot made them feel- not just a "good going" - but a "this impressed me because" or "interesting that you did x, I would have thought y would have worked better.
Impressions rather than a red correcting pen. |
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05/27/2015 02:20:27 PM · #32 |
@ NikonJeb
Well, the first comment gives you insight into how someone else might have created your image, perhaps introducing you to a new (possibly useful) technique ... I don't think it matters at all if they "guessed wrong" about what you actually did -- it's certainly not my problem.
For the second example, if they found something distracting, why shouldn't they tell you? Whether or not it bothers you or whether or not you could have "done anything about it" is irrelevant -- you are now informed that some viewers find this type of "minor" item (I've had two comments regarding the condition of fingernails) to be detrimental.
For example, if you had a restaurant, you'd want to know what percentage of your clientele detests okra, so you have the option to make a rational decision about whether to include it on your menu.
Message edited by author 2015-05-27 14:21:10. |
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05/27/2015 02:46:57 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb: I pretty much tick the box as helpful every time because I am appreciative anytime someone takes the time to stop in their voting/commenting to pass along their thoughts. |
This makes sense to me - it is the philosophy I have come to embrace: it is a tool to acknowledge that the comment someone took time to write has been read. Whether it has been "helpful" is another can of worms; nonetheless, as you said, Jeb, something in your image gave someone pause and lit enough interest to move them to comment/critique - and that should be recognized.
Continuing with that thought: I've often wondered why the box to tick shouldn't simply say, "Comment Read." It removes that "helpful"* connotation and becomes more of an acknowledgement that the comment was read.
*An aside: In my opinion, the "helpful" phrasing is like Facebook's "like." "Like" is so simple minded. My perspective of "like" is that we're being conditioned to accept everything quashing the communication skills needed to disagree and debate something. Oh, wow... I have digressed.
Back to photography folks. Sorry for long-winded rant off topic.
I need to go pull weeds in the garden. |
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05/27/2015 03:00:31 PM · #34 |
BTW... someone referenced (here or in the other thread) about people only checking the "comment helpful" box if it's a compliment. Just wanted to add here, that I never check "comment helpful" during voting if the person is not revealed during voting.
After the results are announced, I like to go back and see which people hide their faces during commenting and THEN vote them helpful (if they were helpful, pro or con). Not sure if anyone else holds off to the end, but don't think they are never gonna click the box. :) |
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05/27/2015 04:47:09 PM · #35 |
I was going to leave this one alone, but I can't resist...
Comments and critiques of an image are helpful and appreciated - even if it isn't an attaboy.
For several years I worked in Software Quality Assurance, where we had to issue written reports on new or revised software and approve or reject its release to production. Programmers are almost as egotistical as artists and photographers. The desired result - improvements to software and stopping bad software going out the door - was almost always achieved by a factual, non-judgmental approach. Requirements say this, software does that. Software behaves differently in different locations, etc. With photography, you almost have to get emotional - but the negatives should always be photo-specific, and never directed at the photographer.
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05/27/2015 04:55:11 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb: I find the Insert minor detail here distracting. |
I find that type of comment incredibly helpful. So often I get married to, por locked into, my own way of seeing my images and I can no longer see them with fresh eyes. I can't offhand recall a time, ever, that someone told me "such and so component is a liability to the image" (or words to that effect) when I didn't find myself looking at the image from a different viewpoint and thinking "Damn, why didn't *I* see that?" |
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05/27/2015 05:22:59 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Not necessarily talking about that type of comment. The two types of comments that I am specifically referring to are:
1.) I don't like the way you used insert technique/plug-in here.
2.) I find the Insert minor detail here distracting.
The distracting one bugs me more because it's generally something insignificant that someone decides to make a fuss over that really isn't that big of a deal OR, and often this is the case, the image was a spur-of-the-moment thing where the distracting element was completely beyond the photog's control.....it was either go with the distraction, or no shot.
Actually I'm finding this to be a terrific discussion in general. Thanks for the different perspectives, people! |
Funny because it sounds like you are describing my commenting style.
I always try to give an overall reaction and then try to find one thing (or several if I can) to praise, and one thing to complain about.Editing is a choice, and some will like how you did it, some won't, but the more particular the critique, the better the critique. Writing "Very overdone PP" is pretty useless. Telling me it looks over sharpened, or that you see halos or that it has been over softened and lost detail; that helps. I can chose to accept or reject the advice, but at least I know what they saw and have a clue how I might make changes that they would have liked, or choose not to.
As far as the Insert minor detail here, yup I do that too. When I shoot, I do the best I can, but even in editing I know what I saw then I took the shot and that influences how I see the finished work. Only those who never looked through the viewfinder can have a truly cold eye to see the work as it is presented, and will be able to see what details are distracting and which help. I may know what I wanted to present, but it is so tangled up with having been there with the sounds and the smells and the having been there that I can't really see the work clearly sometimes. The more they can tell me about what they see, the better my chances are next time I look through the viewfinder to see a better finished work.
The only time I do not marked a comment as helpful is when it is too vague to be helpful. The "Very overdone PP" was a comment I received and when I wrote a polite request for clarification I got back a response of "I am not going to comment any more, I have had enough of DPC." That said it is the only PM in close to 3,000 of them that was less than pleasant. |
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