The Masters Dilemma - DPChallenge Forums

09/30/2004 09:08:02 AM · #101

[quote=Imagineer] I think the Masters challenge should be mandatory - with the penalty of a disqualification from the next challenge if they don't submit - and only the Masters can vote.[/guote]

Really? What about those Masters who aren't fond of the idea or who are away for the month or whose cameras are being repaired or who just don't feel like entering?

I disagree with you on this one as far as the mandatory challenge entry goes...

09/30/2004 10:05:35 AM · #102

First, I do believe that a lot of you are being carried away. When you try to define an art form you had better be free of all prejudice. Photography has many faces and facets and one class can not rule over the other.

Like I said earlier, any type of style can win and it makes no sense for one type or style to try and lead the voters by defining which is the true mission or proper style of photography.

Look: As you know there are many styles. Let us look at one. You have the candid, unposed shot...which is the most natural. Compositions depend on available light, subject and camera positions. This is basic recording even if done by a superior photographer. Look at your stock pile and you will find that most are snap shots and only a handful rise to the artistic realm. Now, after a photographer learns his basics and exhaust his technique he lovingly looks at the candid as the purest of forms. Why, they require no elaborate preparation and the object is not to knock out the viewer but rather to invite a gentle experience of emotive give and take with the image. This is great...but this does not define the entire art.

Whether you agree with me or not, I consider myself a visual artist and I have not even touched the surface of what I wish to express. We all run through phases and I have tons of different styles which are subject to future revival, but to express what I want and the way I want to, I need to control the light, the model and the concept.

All that I wish to convey is that photography has many faces and there is no need to defend one style against the other or to try to lead the voters by assuming that they are stupid or that they have no taste.

People come here not just to see great emotive, candid, contrived, artistic or whatever. They come here to see photography in its many faces. There main reason is to learn and when you are learning you want to be exposed to all phases and yes you also want to see technique and composition because these are an integral part of the craft.

So, I expect to see dazzling technique, creative use of lighting and the expression of concepts well presented. I expect some master shots in the emotive field as well as some attractive landscapes, macros, etc, etc. Not one type, but the best of each type of so submitted.

In short: I expect to see the best efforts in each field and may the best shots win. But all have a chance because no one style excells or is better than the other.

I can simplify it further by stating that if you limit your taste with strong likes and dislikes you limit your flight of fancy and your creativity. I look at photography more as the play of light and shadow and all subjects and pictures have a chance with me because there are so many ways to achieve this end whether by matural or contrived means. I look for the artisric renditions and I do not care if they are found naturally or contrived. I like all forms and I am open to them all.

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark II

09/30/2004 10:32:50 AM · #103

Originally posted by graphicfunk:

First, I do believe that a lot of you are being carried away. When you try to define an art form you had better be free of all prejudice. Photography has many faces and facets and one class can not rule over the other.

blah-blah lots of interesting stuff

I can simplify it further by stating that if you limit your taste with strong likes and dislikes you limit your flight of fancy and your creativity. I look at photography more as the play of light and shadow and all subjects and pictures have a chance with me because there are so many ways to achieve this end whether by matural or contrived means. I look for the artisric renditions and I do not care if they are found naturally or contrived. I like all forms and I am open to them all.

A thought-provoking post that can't be dismissed without considering the author's extensive influences present in his work... it's obvious you know your art history.
However, I still think you overestimate the masses' ability to respond to certain types of art. In almost every era in every artform since the Renaissance, the general public have been slow to appreciate contemporary 'high' art. Many people question the value of high art if the masses don't appreciate it, but history usually proves them wrong in the long term as these trends trickle down into the mainstream. The 20th Century has been particularly interesting with styles such as Modernism, Cubism, Expressionism, Post-modernism, Minimalism, and so on... most of which the general public are slow to warm to. In most contemporary art forms today, the art is beyond the taste of the public. Just look at the awards for the contemporary high arts in any field. Obviously, this kind of art will not do well on DPChallenge, and it is very ambitious to suggest that people are open minded enough to accept contemporary art. now, I don't claim to take pictures that are worthy enough to be placed into a high art category, but I know that this is not the environment to nurture those qualities in my work. I would be deluding myself if I thought this was the place to practice real 'art'.

jjbeguin

Olympus 50-200mm f/2.8-3.5 ED Zuiko Digital

09/30/2004 10:41:35 AM · #104

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

1. Shoot a photo using the winning recipe and hope to win the challenge.

I have to this day participated to approximately a zillion challenges and so far, only once was I sure I had a garantied winner (it did...). I am otherwise constantly surprised, amazed, so ever gratefull, floored or flabbergasted at the voters appreciation and grading of my entries I usually consider of quality (for at least a couple days).

Anybody who has the fortune of having an appliable winning recipe (how fun could that be now and then!) definitely should go for it! This is a fun & friendly web challenge whith occasionnal outbursts of talent and a few miracles, not the Niepce Awards; surprise us in a different way.
To make the coming week more fun and exciting for all (especially for the bearer of the "secret") make your decision public. For example: "thanks to my winning recipe, my entry this week will be a top 5 or score at least a 7.2, garantied."

only then I'll believe in winning recipes.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

09/30/2004 10:47:05 AM · #105

JJ, this is the first time I've 'bumped' into you in a forum. I just wanted to take the time to say that you're by far my favourite photographer that I've discovered on this site and I spend ridiculous amounts of time looking at your photos...I look forward to developing the little bit of inspiration I have in me to a level where my photos will affect others like your photos have affected me.

What an embarassingly awkward post, I know...but I had to say it.

Message edited by author 2004-09-30 10:47:27.

heida

Canon EOS-5D

09/30/2004 10:48:48 AM · #106

Yeah I agree with jjbeguin
There is no such thing as a winning recipe
I have only submitted what I like at the time
(many I dont like anymore ;) )
And have been lucky enough sometimes that others seems to like it too
I have never thought I had a guarentied winner.

09/30/2004 10:49:34 AM · #107

Originally posted by jjbeguin:

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

1. Shoot a photo using the winning recipe and hope to win the challenge.

I have to this day participated to approximately a zillion challenges and so far, only once was I sure I had a garantied winner (it did...). I am otherwise constantly surprised, amazed, so ever gratefull, floored or flabbergasted at the voters appreciation and grading of my entries I usually consider of quality (for at least a couple days).

Anybody who has the fortune of having an appliable winning recipe (how fun could that be now and then!) definitely should go for it! This is a fun & friendly web challenge whith occasionnal outbursts of talent and a few miracles, not the Niepce Awards; surprise us in a different way.
To make the coming week more fun and exciting for all (especially for the bearer of the "secret") make your decision public. For example: "thanks to my winning recipe, my entry this week will be a top 5 or score at least a 7.2, garantied."

only then I'll believe in winning recipes.

I'm usually more stunned by how low some of your superb challenge shots score, than how high... which is what they usually deserve.

terje

Apple iPhone

09/30/2004 10:53:02 AM · #108

The only people who keep talking about the winning recipe are the ones who never wins, or isn't it?

09/30/2004 10:55:03 AM · #109

hey Bob:
Yes, I agree with your last statement. However, I never meant to infer that DPC has the breath and scope to serve as a nucleus for all styles. Let's face it, DPC like any other organization is limited by the combined collective viewpoint of its members.

Yes, all art form gyrate through generations. They all reach a classical form of perfection and then they split into tangents which the general public is at an immediate loss to judge because there simply isn't a reference for the new style and so it takes following generations to determine the quality or validity. Many tangents fall by the wayside while the worthy ones survive.

However, I have not seen anything ib DPC that is so out there or representing a new tangent or art form. My argument is that if a member wants to make a particular entry, they need not lead the voters as to the value of a particular style. My redondent argument is that a well executed concept, an emotive shot, landscape or any other form has a chance. In short, there is no need to trump one over the other.

Message edited by author 2004-09-30 10:58:57.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

09/30/2004 10:55:09 AM · #110

Originally posted by terje:

The only people who keep talking about the winning recipe are the ones who never wins, or isn't it?

The person I've seen talk the most about a winning recipe is JSetzler... I'd trust him on this one.

terje

Apple iPhone

09/30/2004 10:55:45 AM · #111

He hasn't won anything since Nov '03

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

09/30/2004 10:58:49 AM · #112

Originally posted by terje:

He hasn't won anything since Nov '03

I wanted to write something about sleeping dogs ...

09/30/2004 11:00:13 AM · #113

To be fair, the whole idea of assigning a topic to shoot will result in more 'studio' or set-up type shots, right?

Obviously, we're not seeing a fair ratio of candid/street photos or photos that really stretch the limits of the art because the whole spirit of the website is to photograph a specific idea/subject.

That being said, I still humbly believe there's an over-emphasis on technical excellence rather than 'capturing the moment/emotion'...

When I start sub-consciously critiquing the grain, blur or distracting elements in a National Geographic photo I know that I've spent too much time on dpc without enough time balanced in other photography-communities.

terje

Apple iPhone

09/30/2004 11:01:18 AM · #114

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by terje:
He hasn't won anything since Nov '03

I wanted to write something about sleeping dogs ...

Sleeping? He have entered 27 challenges since his last ribbon. Winning recipe?

09/30/2004 11:03:32 AM · #115

Originally posted by terje:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by terje:
He hasn't won anything since Nov '03

I wanted to write something about sleeping dogs ...

Sleeping? He have entered 27 challenges since his last ribbon. Winning recipe?

I think he's made it clear that he's abandoned the winning recipe, thereby further supporting his argument...at least in my viewpoint.

Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f2.8D

09/30/2004 11:04:06 AM · #116

Originally posted by terje:

It was around that time he publicly stated that he wanted to move away from 'winning recipe' shots. I don't think he'd have any problems winning challenges if he decided to make that his goal.

Koriyama

Nikon D200

09/30/2004 11:07:15 AM · #117

Originally posted by terje:

Have you looked at those 27? Most of them are fabulous photos.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

09/30/2004 11:09:05 AM · #118

Please: Mr. Setzler has established himself. All true artist retreat from the constraints of any limiting rules to explore other areas of the field.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

09/30/2004 11:12:53 AM · #119

Originally posted by heida:

There is no such thing as a winning recipe
I have only submitted what I like at the time...

Each of your last six entries have scored above 7... five of those for ribbons. That's a "winning recipe," from one hell of a chef. Looking forward to the Heida cookbook. ;-)

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

09/30/2004 11:27:23 AM · #120

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by heida:
There is no such thing as a winning recipe
I have only submitted what I like at the time...

Each of your last six entries have scored above 7... five of those for ribbons. That's a "winning recipe," from one hell of a chef. Looking forward to the Heida cookbook. ;-)

I think Heida's opinion is such that it is the photographer, not the recipe that is the key to winning challenges on this site. I think that it takes both a great photographer (like Heida) and a winning recipe to win challenges consistently...

...that's not a "bad" thing, it just means that my photography diet needs to be balanced. It has to have more than just dpc photos...

Message edited by author 2004-09-30 11:29:00.

heida

Canon EOS-5D

09/30/2004 11:36:28 AM · #121

I think that I have only been lucky in some challenges here
doesnt make me a master I have a lot to learn and I certenly dont have a winning recipe