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09/13/2004 10:27:27 AM · #1 |
I know a number of dpc photographers have been doing some work with models. I curious what you give in a Time For Print situation in the age of digital?
Do you provide a CD will all images from a shoot? Full or partial size?
How many shots do you work up to portfolio quality?
Do you use any special packaging to make your results seem more professional?
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09/13/2004 10:59:51 AM · #2 |
TFP -
One (1) proof CD of images cut down to 20% of their original size. These photos will have no editing done to them.
Ten (10) 5x7 photos edited to the model's specifications (including cropping, levels, saturation, sharpening, dodge/burn, cloning of some minor non-personal spots, etc). I may clone a pimple out if the subject doesn't show a proclivity for such but a birth mark or other physical feature usually stays in since my work isn't commercial and it will be used to garner more photoshoots for the models; subsequent agencies or photogs need to see the genuine subject.
Two (2) 8x10 photos edited to the model's specifications (see above).
One (1) final CD of all 12 images (assuming the model wanted 12 different images; sometimes they want multiples of a particular image) in both 5x7 and 8x10 format. These images will contain copyright information in the EXIF.
TFCD -
One (1) CD of all frames shot during the photoshoot. Depending on the size and whether I'm trying to fit all the images on one or two CD's I may cut the images down as much as 10% to get them to fit but never more than that. I do put copyright info into these images as well. I perform no edits on these images but I have been known to try and explain to a model how to edit the photos. This is something that many models think that they want to do until they begin to edit and realize that a photo may take 15 minutes of work or it may take an hour and a half if there is an annoying shadow or element that needs to be cloned. I've really only started offering this as school started back and several subjects are convinced that they want this. I've already had some negative results from a subject who wanted a copy of all the images in full size (TFCD style) but then when she realized how much work an image would take and that she didn't want to put the time in to adjust levels and hue/saturation and USM the photo and select the correct colorspace for posting to the web and . . . she contacted me thinking that I'd have to do the work for her, she wasn't thrilled that I didn't feel the same compunction.
The one thing about TFCD is that its your reputation when the model can't take an 11x14" formatted JPG with no editing done to it and drop that off on a CD at Wolf or WalMart and their machines try to print it as a 4x6. You will be the one who gets the negative press. For me, I shoot with enough people and I write directly onto the model release what the model is to expect out of me and they cannot reasonably say that I didn't warn them how much time and effort might be involved. Since most of us here are familiar with adjusting levels and colors and some of us even edit based on using curves I think we forget sometimes how much time it took to get to the level of prowess with PhotoShop (or other program) that is exhibited here. I'd highly suggest starting off TFP and then moving into TFCD. It's just one less thing to worry with until you get your feet under you and are used to working with models (or aspiring models).
Having reviewed this post I want to point out that 99% of my interactions with models and their managers or parents or guardians or whomever have been exceedingly pleasant and I absolutely love doing this kind of work.
Kev
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09/13/2004 12:58:16 PM · #3 |
Kevin,
Do you select the images for the 5X7s and 8X10s or do you allow the model to do this? I have already bumped into a situation where the shots the model liked were not examples of my best work. They were not out of focus or poorly exposed, they are just not as good as some others from the session.
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09/13/2004 01:13:31 PM · #4 |
| I give the recipient a cd with selected images. The one's I select to be most appropriate, in two formats. The first is Jpeg for internet and the same in tiff format for printing. |
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09/13/2004 01:31:47 PM · #5 |
I usually edit between 6 and 12 that I post to PBase, DPC and OneModelPlace. These are usually not final portfolio quality but they are examples of the shots that I think are the "best" for what I wanted to get out of the session. I then allow the model to select the shots that they want and I edit them to be as good as I think I can get them. If I don't think I can produce a high quality image from the frame that the model selected I suggest a different frame or ask them to show me an example of how they want this to look in the finished version. I have found on occasion that the subject wanted a shot to be high-key and didn't understand the difference between a high key shot where certain details were blown out and other photos with unintentionally blown details. I have shown what I can produce out of the selected image and then urged them to select another photo. When its all said and done, though, I go ahead and give them the shot that they want. I figure if someone is looking to have me do work for them they will want to see the shots that I have in my portfolio.
One thing that may be important to keep in mind is that I work with subjects that have limited, if any, commercial experience when we do our first, second or third shoot. In these cases the subjects often select shots where they think they "look the best" instead of any shot that presents them in a particularly artistic atmosphere. Often a subject has to get used to the fact that others don't perceive them as they perceive themselves and, thus, they don't want a "geeky" shot or something too "loose" so they choose more timid or mundane poses of themselves.
Kev
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09/13/2004 01:35:32 PM · #6 |
I think there is also the point of which type of model we're talking about and who hired who. It's one thing to talk about what "should" be expected and so on...but there is also the idea of "who" the photographer is...if a model/client --wants-- YOU and only YOU as a photographer...it changes things.
I would also say that "a shoot" for one photographer and model...may be something entirely different for someone else.
Message edited by author 2004-09-13 13:37:05.
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09/13/2004 02:25:23 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by Gil P:
. . . who hired who. |
I think you may have missed the point of the discussion. The TFP process is an opportunity for experience for both parties. The goal of a TFP, in my experience, is that both parties gain something without having to solicit people who may already be more advanced than themselves. I could hire professional models and there is no doubt in my mind that they would pose more expressively and give my work more depth or more of an edge but I'm not as concerned with the model's expression right now as I'm still working to (1) learn the craft and (2) find what type of expression I like to put into my work. You seem to get commissioned work and I know that there are others on this site who make money for photography but TFP is, by my understanding, a trade based not on money.
For me its about experience and learning a craft so that I can live up to my own expectations. I'm a programmer by trade but I would like to retire someday and perhaps shoot for fees or at least shoot for artistic expression. To gain more experience with the types of photography that I enjoy doing most I could either bug people who don't want to pose for me (especially for 4 hours in the heat of the day) or I could hire a professional (but that's expensive) or I can trade a decent level of quality in photography for a decent level of posing and expressions in modeling. I'm also sure that I could apprentice myself to someone and try to learn the craft that way (and I think that's completely valid) or I could study via a classroom/trade school which also yields strong benefits as some DPC members demonstrate. For me I don't have the time or inclination to engage in either pursuit but I do have the ability to provide passingly good portraits for aspiring models who, in turn, are then able to get more face time with agencies or periodicals and land contracts or freelance work. We both got something out of the exchange.
To me, this has been worth the prints and photos that I offer the subjects as I listed in the other posts to this thread. It appears that you have already developed a style and sense of expression for which you have a clientele that pays you. I know that I haven't, and I'm guessing David among others, hasn't yet attained that level of commercial success so while I agree that it depends on who wants to shoot with whom, my experience with shooting for experience and prints (ie. - TFP or TFCD) is that it lends itself to selecting a particular amount of work with which I am satisfied giving for what I get. I figure it comes out in the wash whether the subject I shoot with is good at "hitting" a pose or expression or not.
Kev
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09/13/2004 03:09:32 PM · #8 |
As Kevin suggested, any work I do with models at this point is purely to gain experience and start to build a portfolio. TFP gives me a chance to learn without significant investment in models. What has surprised me is how much time it can take to sort the shots from a session and then clean up a handful for delivery back to the model. In this most recent case I also ran into problems getting a decent looking image within the 50K size limit for onemodelplace. I probably spent three hours experimenting with a single portrait before I started to get a handle keeping the jpeg artifacts off the models skin. I guess that topic by itself is enough for a thread of discussion. In this thread I was mostly trying to get a handle on how time I put into TFP and who drives image selection.
Thanks again for all of the good discussion. |
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