Variable ND filters - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

03/14/2014 10:51:13 PM · #1

I want to use a variable 77mm ND on a 58mm thread 50mm lens. I wont ever use it on a wide angle. Anyone with experience with the cheaper vs the better like the tiffen? Like this???

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

03/14/2014 11:56:10 PM · #2

Variable ND's are generally a pretty bad idea.

So, first, can you tell me/us what it is that you're trying to accomplish? Knowing the use-case will help me to advise you somewhat better. But Variable ND filters tend to be of lower quality than regular ND filters, they usually have a color cast problem, often are irregular in the darkening, and aren't as dark as the darkest regular ND filters.

In general, my advice is to just go with a really dark ND and make sure it's a good one. Personally I like B+W. I in fact, just bought a 10 stop ND for my little X100, and have found that I need another one to accomplish my goal (daytime long exposure, even with the built in 3-stop ND filter, 13 stops isn't enough to go minutes long during the daytime with a base ISO of 200 at f/16)..

Tell me more about what you're trying to do - and specifically what is compelling you to consider the variable ND over the standard ND.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

03/15/2014 12:54:51 AM · #3

Originally posted by Cory:

Use would be strictly portrait outdoors. Compensating for sun in n out of clouds, moving from shade to sun etc. Which is why i would step a 77mm to 58mm to avoid the corners.

robs

Canon EOS R6 Mk II

03/15/2014 01:02:27 AM · #4

I went with one in the middle... This one had great reviews and I have been very happy with it. I know it's a step up from the one you posted but there is zip colour cast with this one which the cheap ones are known for. Careful at full... they all have a cross if you push them too far, this one included.

Amazon (non aff) Link

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

03/15/2014 01:39:37 AM · #5

Originally posted by dmadden:

Originally posted by Cory:
Variable ND's are generally a pretty bad idea.

So, first, can you tell me/us what it is that you're trying to accomplish? Knowing the use-case will help me to advise you somewhat better. But Variable ND filters tend to be of lower quality than regular ND filters, they usually have a color cast problem, often are irregular in the darkening, and aren't as dark as the darkest regular ND filters.

In general, my advice is to just go with a really dark ND and make sure it's a good one. Personally I like B+W. I in fact, just bought a 10 stop ND for my little X100, and have found that I need another one to accomplish my goal (daytime long exposure, even with the built in 3-stop ND filter, 13 stops isn't enough to go minutes long during the daytime with a base ISO of 200 at f/16)..

Tell me more about what you're trying to do - and specifically what is compelling you to consider the variable ND over the standard ND.

Use would be strictly portrait outdoors. Compensating for sun in n out of clouds, moving from shade to sun etc. Which is why i would step a 77mm to 58mm to avoid the corners.

On that 6D I'd just go for a 6 stop ND. No reason you can't push the ISO a bit. In fact, I still would consider the 10 stop ND, the only downside to the 10 stop is the effect it will have on your AF system.

In the end, for me it just comes down to the fact that it's easy to modify ISO or aperture to make fine adjustments, and the quality of non-variable ND filters will always be superior to the variable type.

I have yet to think of a use-case scenario where the ability to vary the strength of the filter is important enough to justify the loss of image quality.

Of course, this is a personal choice thing at some level as well, so what works for me may or may not be what works best for you. Just consider whether or not you really *need* the variable filter.

Message edited by author 2014-03-15 01:40:39.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

03/15/2014 03:45:01 AM · #6

'I have yet to think of a use-case scenario where the ability to vary the strength of the filter is important enough to justify the loss of image quality. '

Thats a strong point. I'm now considering staying vanilla on the ND's. Thnks

Neil

Fujifilm X-T30

03/15/2014 10:03:58 AM · #7

For the heck of it, I bought one of the very cheap ones. Seems to be fine in the few times I've tried it, but I haven't used it much.

Message edited by author 2014-03-15 10:06:17.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

03/15/2014 12:00:43 PM · #8

Originally posted by Neil:

For the heck of it, I bought one of the very cheap ones. Seems to be fine in the few times I've tried it, but I haven't used it much.

Another funky workaround is to stack two polarizers and rotate them relative to each other to adjust the density -- when I experimented with this a couple of years ago I got up to about four stops of effect, enough to smooth water in bright daylight. I had a circular polarizer, and I bought a used linear one for $10 to try this out. Examples (the fountains) here.

Message edited by author 2014-03-15 12:01:11.

EstimatedEyes

Fujifilm X-T5

Fujifilm XF 16-80mm f/4 R OIS WR

03/15/2014 03:23:32 PM · #9

Hey, David, nice to see you back here. I've got a Marumi vari-ND that works very well, and I absolutely do not see any drop off in image quality between that and the normal ND2, ND4 and ND8 filters I have. I will say that the vari seems to give me about a 1/2-stop less darkening than the fixed NDs, and as a practical matter seems to get me about 3 stops difference between the max and min settings. I use it mostly for slowing shutter speeds to blur water or for other landscape applications; not so much for portrait work so YMMV. The advantage for me is portability and flexibility to dial in the right exposure when I want it. And, because I still shoot Pentax, I was able to keep the cost down by getting a 49 mm vari-ND, which fits all my limited primes. The others are 77mm which I still use with step down rings with my other lenses.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS II USM Lens

03/15/2014 05:57:11 PM · #10

Originally posted by EstimatedEyes:

Thanks Dennis! And good to see you too. I've been kinda inactive here, but return home now and then. Never heard of Marumi, but will look into it. I absolutely only want to use it for portraiture. To keep the speedlight from doing too much highspeed sync. And when I'm using monolights. I can hypersync all the way to 1/8000. But thats only clean on the aps-c, on the full frame i get some banding after 1/2000.

I will probably just get the range in 3 different stop ND filters. And if it slows me down too much, I'll try a variable. My problem is being in Jamaica, I'm not able to just walk in a store and test them out.

FromDaRock

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

03/15/2014 10:06:44 PM · #11

Originally posted by dmadden:

Originally posted by EstimatedEyes:
Hey, David, nice to see you back here. I've got a Marumi vari-ND that works very well, and I absolutely do not see any drop off in image quality between that and the normal ND2, ND4 and ND8 filters I have. I will say that the vari seems to give me about a 1/2-stop less darkening than the fixed NDs, and as a practical matter seems to get me about 3 stops difference between the max and min settings. I use it mostly for slowing shutter speeds to blur water or for other landscape applications; not so much for portrait work so YMMV. The advantage for me is portability and flexibility to dial in the right exposure when I want it. And, because I still shoot Pentax, I was able to keep the cost down by getting a 49 mm vari-ND, which fits all my limited primes. The others are 77mm which I still use with step down rings with my other lenses.

Thanks Dennis! And good to see you too. I've been kinda inactive here, but return home now and then. Never heard of Marumi, but will look into it. I absolutely only want to use it for portraiture. To keep the speedlight from doing too much highspeed sync. And when I'm using monolights. I can hypersync all the way to 1/8000. But thats only clean on the aps-c, on the full frame i get some banding after 1/2000.

I will probably just get the range in 3 different stop ND filters. And if it slows me down too much, I'll try a variable. My problem is being in Jamaica, I'm not able to just walk in a store and test them out.

We had about 15cm (6in) of snow 2 days ago, 8 days before spring. My heart bleeds for you ;)

In all seriousness though, I got a Genus variable ND filter a couple of years ago. I have been happy with it, but I haven't used it for portraits, only landscapes. I can't say that I noticed any sharpness or colour casting issues, if they are there, they are pretty subtle. I have a couple of examples on Flickr. Maybe I will have to take a few test shots at some point to compare the same shot with and without the filter.

RamblinR

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark III

Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

03/16/2014 12:39:18 AM · #12

Here's a link to a test for 6 different variable ND filters.

Variable ND test on YOUTUBE

I went with the Tiffen.
Only got it a couple of weeks ago from B&H and haven't had a chance to test it yet.

Neil

Fujifilm X-T30

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

03/16/2014 10:37:31 AM · #13

Originally posted by RamblinR:

Here's a link to a test for 6 different variable ND filters.

Variable ND test on YOUTUBE

I went with the Tiffen.
Only got it a couple of weeks ago from B&H and haven't had a chance to test it yet.

Good video. Yes, to save people time (if you don't care about the details, he picks the Tiffen as the best reasonable cost variable filter, and Genus as an even less expensive, close, but not quite as good. Sing-Ray and Heliopan were also on top but were "too expensive".

I am tempted to run a test with my cheapo one and my sharpest lens to see if it degrades (or rather how much it degrades).

Message edited by author 2014-03-16 10:38:18.

Neil

Fujifilm X-T30

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

03/16/2014 07:32:08 PM · #14

I just did a little sharpness test with my cheapo (I paid $15) vND, and it passed with flying colors. I tripod mounted the camera, manually focused the lens, and took pics of a poster in my closet using mirror lock up and a remote. I tested with my Nikon 16-35mm VR at 35mm on my D7100 (my D600 isn't back yet). So that's about 52mm equivalent in 35mm terms.

I only focused once.

A 6 second exposure at F4, versus a 1/13 second at F4 (both at ISO 100) yielded no perceptible difference difference in sharpness in the test. This vND doesn't list stops but that's set at about 5 stops, and certainly in the range I'd be looking for for my use.

Also looked at the upper left corner sharpness and the result is the same.

For some reason the vND pic is actually a little sharper than the no filter option in the corner...so it's possible I accidentally touched the focus in between shots and I'll retest before posting the pics. Also, I will try a wider angle setting to see if that makes a diff.

This filter does get uneven with a especially dark X pattern starting at just over 9 stops.