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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Landscape Equipment Discussion - Is bigger better?
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 03/14/2014 02:26:24 PM · #26
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Neil:
Of course, to make that latter statement I probably have to consider a single focal length...we'll say 25mm (because the RX10 only goes that wide)...and figure out the minimum aperture on a full frame camera versus the 1" sensor, to make, say, 3 feet and beyond be sharp.

Can anyone figure that out? ;)

A 25mm lens on a FF camera would have DOF from 3 feet to infinity at f/16 when focused at 10 feet. Does that help?


Thanks. I was going to ask how you calculated that (easily), but I just found this:

//www.dofmaster.com/m/index.html

I think for compact cameras, it requires you to use the REAL mm not the 35mm equivalent. Still have to find that for the RX10 (they are citing 35mm equivalents everywhere, but correction, the RX10 is 24mm - 200mm. I had just been reading a review of it and they said 25. I thought it was wrong, but used that anyway.)

Looking back at DPReview, too, I think they do some of these calcs for you:

Equivalent focal length / Maximum aperture range / Sensor size /Equivalent aperture range

Panasonic DMC-FZ200 / 25-600mm / F2.8 / 2.3"-type / F15.5
Nikon Coolpix P7800 / 28-200mm / F2.0 - 4.0 / 1.7"-type / F9.5-19
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 / 24-200mm / F2.8 / 1"-type / F7.6

So if I understand that correctly, DOF wise (not light wise) the equivalent FF aperture to 2.8 on a RX10 is F7.6. The FZ200 is even better at F15.5 (for landscapes). But of course it has signficantly lower Dynamic range.

Message edited by author 2014-03-14 14:30:51.
 03/14/2014 02:30:30 PM · #27
I can't believe this. I thought we were going to discuss lawn tractors, shovels, secateurs, pruning ladders, wheelbarrows.... I was so excited.
 03/14/2014 02:37:16 PM · #28
who says we aren't
Originally posted by tnun:
I can't believe this. I thought we were going to discuss lawn tractors, shovels, secateurs, pruning ladders, wheelbarrows.... I was so excited.
03/14/2014 03:15:22 PM · #29
I mean I can't believe that that is what I thought. Maybe because gardening season has just arrived here with a heck of a thump. (Spring rapidly preceded by torrential rains, heavy snowfall and consequent treefall and mire).
 03/14/2014 06:37:38 PM · #30
These are some really interesting discussion points.

My understanding of the sensor size DoF calculation is that for the same angle of view, aperture setting, and distance from subject, you get roughly one more stop of DoF with APS-C than FF, and 2 stops of DoF with a m4/3 sensor. That would mean that a 1" sensor would be closer to 3 stops more DoF than FF.

Those calculations are, of course perturbed by pixel density and print size. Sensors with higher pixel density are going to show diffraction, at least when pixel peeping, at larger apertures than sensors with less pixel density. But, that might not matter if you're not printing large enough to see the diffraction.

I think the biggest issue with using a fixed lens camera for landscapes is exactly what you mentioned, none of the fixed lens cameras go wide enough for most serious landscape shooters. 24mm equivalent is probably wide enough for a general purpose travel camera, but probably not wide enough for any type of serious landscape work. I think the A7R has a similar problem right now, because none of the really wide lenses seem to work well on it. That said, the software is getting good enough that with some care, it's entirely possible to get excellent results with stitched images. I did a stitched panorama the other day where the exposure on the 3 originals wasn't even the same (there was a 2 stop difference between brightest and darkest), but the final image looks amazing (I can't show it because I'm entering one of the 3 originals in the free study this month).

I'm not entirely convinced that finding the camera with the widest dynamic range is the holy grail of landscape shooting either. All of the cameras you list have plenty of dynamic range to shoot landscapes, especially when you consider that you can bracket and combine exposures.

If I'm driving to a place, jumping out of the car, and shooting, I want to have my D800, because it takes the best pictures of any camera I've ever held in my hand. If I'm hiking any distance (including hiking through airports), the equation gets muddy really quick, because a lot of the time, I'll miss the shot because I've left the D800 at home.

Decisions, decisions...

03/14/2014 07:16:02 PM · #31
Originally posted by Ann:
24mm equivalent is probably wide enough for a general purpose travel camera, but probably not wide enough for any type of serious landscape work. I think the A7R has a similar problem right now, because none of the really wide lenses seem to work well on it. That said, the software is getting good enough that with some care, it's entirely possible to get excellent results with stitched images.

My camera is worse ... only goes to 36mm (35mm EQ) so I do a lot of stitched panoramas. If you shoot with manual exposure and manual focus (and no polarizer) you can usually get decent results, even handheld; better with a tripod and pan head. I usually shoot in portrait mode to get some height, and most software will let you shoot in two or three horizontal passes and stitch in two dimensions. The (free) demo version of AutoStitch will even straighten tilted images, but only works on JPEGs so you'd have to batch-convert and RAW files; I've also been using the free Photostitch program which came on the CD with the camera.

Handheld:

Tripod:
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