| Author | Thread |
|
|
11/12/2013 08:28:11 PM · #26 |
| I like this answer the bestist of all but the 'out of the box' folks will never see it this way. I vote accordingly.....never afraid to give a 1. |
|
|
|
11/12/2013 08:39:21 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Elaine:
I look at the challenge as I would an assignment from a customer. It would not be up to me to decide if a photo of a black cat fills the order for a photo of a red shoe, and I would lose the job if I tried to push it. Why is a challenge any different? |
Well, I'm not interested in practicing how to be a commercial photographer, if it comes to that: I did enough of that as I earned my living all those years. Now I just want to be a laid-back, creative photographer. So I enjoy looking at topics and figuring out, every now and then, some quirky way of interpreting them.
And the fact of the matter is, we DO have descriptions currently, most of the time, and those descriptions do NOT generally succeed in getting all the shooters on the same page, nor do they guarantee that the voters won't take a holiday from commercial photography themselves and give top scores to images that only peripherally meet the challenge (at least in my opinion).
So what we have here is a THING, a "challenge description" that's honored just as often in the breach on BOTH sides of the lens, and a bunch of people wasting a lot of time debating it all, as if anything said by the few of us who actually participate in these threads is going to change the behaviors of the much greater majority who rarely, if ever, pay any attention to navel-gazing like this :-)
I like the idea of eliminating descriptions except as required to define enforceable conditions. The current proposal for an expert challenge where the camera stays in the same place while the environment changes would be a case-in-point, and you should be DQ'd from that challenge if you move the camera around, IMO. |
|
|
|
11/12/2013 08:49:59 PM · #28 |
Personally I like the challenge description... I normally post on it and I have read a bunch of them
|
|
|
|
11/12/2013 09:04:50 PM · #29 |
| Robert, I agree. Replace description with special rule set and use it sparingly. |
|
|
|
11/12/2013 09:13:51 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Cory, why must the challenge description be equated with following directions? |
How can it not be? |
I like this from  graphicfunk ... such strictness curtails creativity.
I generally view challenge descriptions as a prompt rather than a set of rules to follow, i.e., following directions. I'm open to specific instances where there may be additional guidelines for the challenge as pointed out by Robert. |
|
|
|
11/12/2013 09:18:24 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Cory, why must the challenge description be equated with following directions? |
Right. Here's the problem as I see it: MOST of the time, it's perfectly reasonable to work from the title of the challenge, and to the extent that the description serves any purpose at all, it's as an aid for people who really DON'T quite get the concept. We've always more-or-less accepted that, it seems to me. And it's a good thing, because many of our challenge descriptions have borne at best a tenuous relationship to the reality of the topic.
Take the current challenge, "negative space": there are a LOT of interesting ways to go based on those words. But by restricting the challenge simply to that category of negative space that represents a surround to offset a "subject" you have perforce eliminated ALL images that do not HAVE subjects, so one classic example of the opposition of negative and positive spaces, the yin-yang symbol, doesn't meet the challenge!
How crippling is that? And I don't even mean to pick on this challenge in particular, because this has happened many times.
I'm wondering if we're at the point where a challenge NEEDS explication, shouldn't we be flagging the description as a *rule* for the purposes of the challenge? That oughta' weed out unnecessary descriptions pretty quickly :-) Can you imagine the uproar from SC if they had to determine whether an entry "has a subject" and, if it does, is the subject surrounded by "negative space"? They couldn't do it and they wouldn't do it. So why are any of us trying to persuade voters to do exactly that? Makes no sense... |
This is a prime example of the point I was getting at. Because I am not familiar with many photography terms or ideas, the description helped me figure out what and how to take a shot for the challenge. Although I did have to Google "Negative Space Photography" and look at previous submissions to get an idea. But I always look at the description just to make sure that I am not missing anything. |
|
|
|
11/12/2013 09:21:15 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Cory, why must the challenge description be equated with following directions? |
How can it not be? |
I like this from graphicfunk ... such strictness curtails creativity.
I generally view challenge descriptions as a prompt rather than a set of rules to follow, i.e., following directions. I'm open to specific instances where there may be additional guidelines for the challenge as pointed out by Robert. |
You see them as optional, something you might choose to use, if you feel like it.
I see them as required, something that was included because it was meant to narrow it down and give it firmer substance.
..
I ask you - do we not have challenges without descriptions? Is it not better to have a variety of types of challenges? Some more restrictive, some more open to interpretation?
I see the description as being mandatory, because it adds to the depth of the experience, at least, for me it does. I also like challenges that do not have a description, but it would be a shame to lose that variety in favor of catering to the ultra-creative among us. |
|
|
|
11/12/2013 09:40:13 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Take the current challenge, "negative space": there are a LOT of interesting ways to go based on those words. But by restricting the challenge simply to that category of negative space that represents a surround to offset a "subject" you have perforce eliminated ALL images that do not HAVE subjects, so one classic example of the opposition of negative and positive spaces, the yin-yang symbol, doesn't meet the challenge!
How crippling is that? |
careful, this is dangerously close to what I said |
|
|
|
11/12/2013 09:51:36 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Take the current challenge, "negative space": there are a LOT of interesting ways to go based on those words. But by restricting the challenge simply to that category of negative space that represents a surround to offset a "subject" you have perforce eliminated ALL images that do not HAVE subjects, so one classic example of the opposition of negative and positive spaces, the yin-yang symbol, doesn't meet the challenge!
How crippling is that? |
careful, this is dangerously close to what I said |
It was meant to be. |
|
|
|
11/13/2013 01:13:13 AM · #35 |
| Best of all possible worlds would be to tell the entrants what the challenge is, but don't tell the voters. Then we'd be voting on photographs and not on prejudices. |
|
|
|
11/13/2013 01:34:49 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by ubique:
Best of all possible worlds would be to tell the entrants what the challenge is, but don't tell the voters. Then we'd be voting on photographs and not on prejudices. |
You lot really would prefer everything as a freestudy wouldn't you? (I don't say that with malice, but rather sheer shock and amusement.)
What does DPC really hold for you? I'm genuinely glad ya'll are here, but fail to understand why other less restrictive places haven't attracted you instead.
|
|
|
|
11/13/2013 02:13:45 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by ubique:
Best of all possible worlds would be to tell the entrants what the challenge is, but don't tell the voters. Then we'd be voting on photographs and not on prejudices. |
What does DPC really hold for you? I'm genuinely glad ya'll are here, but fail to understand why other less restrictive places haven't attracted you instead. |
I'm here to be with old friends, and because I love photographs, and because I enjoy discussion of photographs (and discussion isn't "like" or "awesome!")
I have limited interest in photography, and none at all in popular photographs. If I ever took a photograph that won a DPC ribbon, it'd profoundly disappoint me. I'm not being disingenuous: for me, most popular photographs are boring - there's nothing left to think, nothing left to discuss. It's all been done, and done, and done.
But I appreciate that most folks here have a different view, and different aspirations for their own work. And that's a good thing.
Challenge subjects - and even some descriptions - can be inspirational for photographers, and do of course establish a broadly cohesive theme for a collected body of works (i.e. a challenge), but they're a poisoned chalice for voters who are themselves photographers: sipping is possibly survivable, but gulping will kill your curiosity. And then you die. |
|
|
|
11/13/2013 03:49:52 AM · #38 |
All descriptions should be replaced with popcorn. How cool would that be??
Fall Foliage 2013 ·  · Advanced Editing
Droste Effect · · Expert Editing
The Number 11 · · Advanced Editing
Glass III · · Advanced Editing
Free Study 2013-11 · · Advanced Editing
|
|
|
|
11/13/2013 08:11:20 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by Cory:
You lot really would prefer everything as a freestudy wouldn't you? (I don't say that with malice, but rather sheer shock and amusement.)
What does DPC really hold for you? I'm genuinely glad ya'll are here, but fail to understand why other less restrictive places haven't attracted you instead. |
I've never felt restricted here. Have some popcorn.
Message edited by author 2013-11-13 08:13:54. |
|
|
|
11/13/2013 11:33:00 AM · #40 |
deleted.
Message edited by author 2013-11-19 04:29:36. |
|
|
|
11/13/2013 11:37:08 AM · #41 |
|
|
|
11/13/2013 11:39:49 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by bvy:
Pick me! Pick me! |
Absolutely! |
|
|
|
11/13/2013 11:41:04 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by xml5000:
Providing such a 'judge' was fair and impartial, his, or her decision, should be respected
by members as final. Rejections notices need only state a brief message explaining why the
entry was disallowed.
Any volunteers?
SW |
Hehe.... Sure that'll happen. ;) |
|
|
|
11/13/2013 12:41:29 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by ubique:
Best of all possible worlds would be to tell the entrants what the challenge is, but don't tell the voters. Then we'd be voting on photographs and not on prejudices. |
You lot really would prefer everything as a freestudy wouldn't you? (I don't say that with malice, but rather sheer shock and amusement.)
What does DPC really hold for you? I'm genuinely glad ya'll are here, but fail to understand why other less restrictive places haven't attracted you instead. |
there is no lot answer to your questions or your assumptions. the only "lot" exists in your perspective. I don't want everything to be a free study.
You and I both requested that descriptions be abolished, and we were both about the same amount of serious. I like challenge descriptions that don't suck. I like restrictions, and I like to see each individual response to those restrictions.
Some of us enjoy restrictions because they showcase individuality. Some of us enjoy restrictions because they encourage conformity. Our votes reflect which view we hold. (and some of us enjoy restrictions because we are kinky. you know who you are.) |
|
|
|
11/13/2013 12:44:33 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by ubique:
Best of all possible worlds would be to tell the entrants what the challenge is, but don't tell the voters. Then we'd be voting on photographs and not on prejudices. |
Sounds good to me. On a regular basis, I shoot with the challenge topic in mind... and forget about the topic while voting.
I guess I believe negative could be positive too. |
|
|
|
11/13/2013 01:00:32 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by ubique:
Best of all possible worlds would be to tell the entrants what the challenge is, but don't tell the voters. Then we'd be voting on photographs and not on prejudices. |
You lot really would prefer everything as a freestudy wouldn't you? (I don't say that with malice, but rather sheer shock and amusement.)
What does DPC really hold for you? I'm genuinely glad ya'll are here, but fail to understand why other less restrictive places haven't attracted you instead. |
there is no lot answer to your questions or your assumptions. the only "lot" exists in your perspective. I don't want everything to be a free study.
You and I both requested that descriptions be abolished, and we were both about the same amount of serious. I like challenge descriptions that don't suck. I like restrictions, and I like to see each individual response to those restrictions.
Some of us enjoy restrictions because they showcase individuality. Some of us enjoy restrictions because they encourage conformity. Our votes reflect which view we hold. (and some of us enjoy restrictions because we are kinky. you know who you are.) |
Well, really, I don't think you're in that 'you lot', it would seem that Penny is though. :D... I do, however, think you fall closer to ubique's end of the spectrum than my end.
As it is though, I was mostly talking about the notion that the voters shouldn't be informed of the challenge. Doing so truly would turn every challenge into a freestudy. |
|
|
|
11/13/2013 01:02:09 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Some of us enjoy restrictions because they showcase individuality. Some of us enjoy restrictions because they encourage conformity. Our votes reflect which view we hold. (and some of us enjoy restrictions because we are kinky. you know who you are.) |
And that's why these threads will continue to flourish as long as there is a DPC.
Some of us are individualists, some of us are conformists and well, some of us are kinky. |
|
|
|
11/13/2013 01:07:39 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Some of us enjoy restrictions because they showcase individuality. Some of us enjoy restrictions because they encourage conformity. Our votes reflect which view we hold. (and some of us enjoy restrictions because we are kinky. you know who you are.) |
And that's why these threads will continue to flourish as long as there is a DPC.
Some of us are individualists, some of us are conformists and well, some of us are kinky. |
:D
And some of us are sadists. ;-)
Message edited by author 2013-11-13 13:08:19. |
|
|
|
11/13/2013 01:56:03 PM · #49 |
Remove the description and then we would have threads asking 'what does blah-blah-blah mean'....oh, yeh, we get those anyway.........
Message edited by author 2013-11-13 13:57:09.
|
|
|
|
11/13/2013 02:08:15 PM · #50 |
I think that it is important to have descriptions for the open challenges. It amazes me (IMHO) that some are sooo far off and I wonder how many more would be without some guidelines. But isn't this the landing place for beginner's and first timers? Why not help by giving a description? When I have voted, I've always kept my interpretation of the guidelines in mind.
Member's challenges? Not being a member it doesn't matter what I think. But, one reason that has kept me coming to this site and viewing the amazing
work here is the creative thinking and people pushing the limits of the description.
Truthfully, this site is intimidating as hell as it is, but damn do I enjoy it.
|
|
Home -
Challenges -
Community -
League -
Photos -
Cameras -
Lenses -
Learn -
Help -
Terms of Use -
Privacy -
Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 07/26/2025 04:59:34 AM EDT.
· Advanced Editing
