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09/06/2004 09:00:41 PM · #51 |
Whow.. I just finished voting. Some of the shots are amazing. I am sooooo impressed. Good job all!
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09/06/2004 09:06:16 PM · #52 |
There are also some really interesting shots that I just can't imagine in a travel guide, adn some that are much closer to travel advertising than one would find in a guide book.
I think it is one of the things that those confused over getting low scores should hold firmly in mind: you really have to absolutely be on the challenge. A good shot that isn't percieved to fit is just not going to get scored well: there are a ton of shots to look at, and folks grasp at things that allow them to have a few stand-out high votes at the end of it.
E
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09/06/2004 09:40:14 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by e301:
There are also some really interesting shots that I just can't imagine in a travel guide, adn some that are much closer to travel advertising than one would find in a guide book.
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I've left voting on these few until later -- there are some that are truely amazing shots but would not be found in a travel guide. I can't seem to vote them high even though they're great and can't vote them low even though they don't fit the challenge :(
I just kept passing on them. What have you done to settle on the scores for these types? I'm open to shameless lobbying :)
Message edited by author 2004-09-06 21:40:47. |
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09/06/2004 09:53:03 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by e301:
There are also some really interesting shots that I just can't imagine in a travel guide, adn some that are much closer to travel advertising than one would find in a guide book.
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I couldn't agree more. I look at every image and ask myself "Would I see this image in an official travel brochure or in travel guides published by Lonely Planet, Moon or Fodors?" If not, I automatically place a deduction, no matter how nice the shot is.
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09/06/2004 09:56:45 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by Beagleboy:
Originally posted by e301:
There are also some really interesting shots that I just can't imagine in a travel guide, adn some that are much closer to travel advertising than one would find in a guide book.
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I couldn't agree more. I look at every image and ask myself "Would I see this image in an official travel brochure or in travel guides published by Lonely Planet, Moon or Fodors?" If not, I automatically place a deduction, no matter how nice the shot is. |
Obviously you have never heard of AAA :P Sometimes you see pictures that may not make it in the other guides.
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09/06/2004 10:02:33 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by Beagleboy:
I look at every image and ask myself "Would I see this image in an official travel brochure or in travel guides published by Lonely Planet, Moon or Fodors?" If not, I automatically place a deduction, no matter how nice the shot is. |
My question is, where do you deduct from? Do you look at one of those shots and say, "This would be a 7, but to me, it doesn't fit my view of a travel guide, therefore I give it a 6 or a 5." Or do you just say to yourself, "doesn't meet the challenge, I give it a 3?" What do you do? |
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09/06/2004 10:04:28 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by skiprow:
My question is, where do you deduct from? Do you look at one of those shots and say, "This would be a 7, but to me, it doesn't fit my view of a travel guide, therefore I give it a 6 or a 5." Or do you just say to yourself, "doesn't meet the challenge, I give it a 3?" What do you do? |
I go with the first approach.
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09/06/2004 10:05:33 PM · #58 |
Aren't there many Travel Guides in print that educate visitors on vastly different aspects of travel?
Isn't the challenge's theme broad enough to encapsulate these different ideas and perspectives?
Is so, then why should one compare current entries against one's preconception of a typical "Travel Guide"?
I've noticed that being artistic and different will inevitably lead to lower scores. I see very little "thinking outside the box" in the voting arena. And to me that's rather disheartening.
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09/06/2004 10:10:05 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by PerezDesignGroup:
Aren't there many Travel Guides in print that educate visitors on vastly different aspects of travel?
Isn't the challenge's theme broad enough to encapsulate these different ideas and perspectives?
Is so, then why should one compare current entries against one's preconception of a typical "Travel Guide"?
I've noticed that being artistic and different will inevitably lead to lower scores. I see very little "thinking outside the box" in the voting arena. And to me that's rather disheartening. |
Here we go with the box again... This issue has been beaten to a pulp. People vote on images according to their tastes, experiences, environment, values, etc. I have realized and accepted that images receive the score they deserve and that it's not worth the hassle of trying to figure out the voters' frame of mind when it comes down to voting.
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09/06/2004 10:45:32 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by Amason:
People are photographing different places all over the world, and the place isn't the point. It can be the most beautiful place in the world and you love looking at the place on the photo, but the photo itself is just a snapshot with no effort or skills of the photographer. You should be giving votes according to how good or bad work the photographer have done with the photo, not how much you would like to go to the place where it's taken...
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Originally posted by skiprow:
I think you missed my whole point...
Look at the challenge this way: all the images are in a travel guide. You, the voter, are browsing the travel guide. If the photographer did what you have described--that is, make an effot to capture an image of a place that would capture a reader's imagination and make them want to do more than flip the page--they will be awarded more points.
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I do respect your answer, but I can't agree with this. I also think you missed my whole point. It's nothing personal, just disagreement.
I will not look at the challenge this way you mentioned, all the images aren't in one and the same travelling guide, they are in a challenge on DPC. The challenge details says this:
Details: Take an image that represents an area as a visitor might see it. Enter landscapes, buildings, people, animals or detail studies that might be used in a travel guide book to your chosen destination.
My whole point is that I find your voting system improper against the challenge and the challenge details:
Originally posted by skiprow:
I just made my first pass voting and gave everyone a 5. When I go back through, I'll give addtional points as follows:
1 pt if their image makes me want to go there.
2 pts if their image makes me want to visit a while.
3 pts if their image makes me want to take the family for an extended stay.
4 or 5 pts for Best of Show
I haven't decided if I'll give any penalty points, but if I do, I'll try to comment. |
We aren't trying to sell a trip or a vacation, we are trying to add more to our photographing skills here, not trying to be good sales people. Ofcourse a better photograph can sell more than a bad one. My point is that if the photo meets the challenge's details, then it's all up to how good work the photographer has done. If I would go with your voting system, I wouldn't give a photo of a beautiful building in beautiful surroundings high rating, just because I like what I see. In that way we are judging the motive more than the skills of the photographer.
Try this; imagine you just hate snow and cold weather, you see a very well taken photo in Greenland, you just love that photo, but you have absolutely no interest to go to that place and never take your family there, would you then just go with your plan and vote it with 5? How can I understand your voting system in another way? Ofcourse there are different tastes where we would like to travel!
Another example: Imagine: A great photograph of mountain climbers at the top of Mt Everest, very well taken photograph. Most of the people wouldn't risk their lifes going up that mountain, and if I would use your voting system it would probably not get an extra point over 5 if we look at your voting system again:
Originally posted by skiprow:
I just made my first pass voting and gave everyone a 5. When I go back through, I'll give addtional points as follows:
1 pt if their image makes me want to go there. |
No extra pt there, I'm not going there!
Originally posted by skiprow:
2 pts if their image makes me want to visit a while. |
No extra pts there, I'll probably die if I visit the peak for a while :-o
Originally posted by skiprow:
3 pts if their image makes me want to take the family for an extended stay. |
Definately no extra 3 pts there, who would take the family there for an extended stay? hahaha
I just made this example because it's the best I got in mind against your voting system, it doesn't work for me. I just wanted to make a clear statement with those examples.
You said that you haven't decided if you're going to give any "penalty" points and lower some of the fives. Let's say you decide not to give any penalty points, as you have it as an option. Then you are being "kind" to the people here. That's wrong imo also, because you shouldn't be thinking about that, you should take one photo at a time and ask yourself; "Does this meet the challenge, how does this appeal to me, how do I like it, is it technically good?" and then give it a rating, it isn't all about being "kind".
It's good to have some kind of a voting system, but I don't think your voting system is working right for this challenge, sorry. Maybe your thougts are different from how you put your voting system down here as you've posted it, but I can't know what it is if you don't explain your voting system better. Maybe I do understand you right, and then it's clear that I do not agree with your system.
I hope you don't take this personally, I do not know you, I could be having this kind of conversation with my brother, my wife or with my best friends, we don't have to agree... ;-)
Message edited by author 2004-09-07 05:16:43.
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09/06/2004 11:03:21 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by Beagleboy:
Originally posted by PerezDesignGroup:
I've noticed that being artistic and different will inevitably lead to lower scores. I see very little "thinking outside the box" in the voting arena. And to me that's rather disheartening. |
Here we go with the box again... This issue has been beaten to a pulp. People vote on images according to their tastes, experiences, environment, values, etc. I have realized and accepted that images receive the score they deserve and that it's not worth the hassle of trying to figure out the voters' frame of mind when it comes down to voting. |
The system of voting for the photos definately has very much to say imo. If you have a photo that maybe 50% of the voters get that it fits the challenge for the first round and maybe add 30% after the final round of voting. And if you have another photo that does clearly fit 100% in the challenge, then the second one will have maybe 25% more chance of higher voting. What I mean is that when most of the people here on DPC are voting, they want to see how it fits the challenge immediately, I think if you're trying to think out of the box, you will probably always suffer for it!
Maybe it would help if we could add some few words in details that would be visible during the voting period. :-)
Message edited by author 2004-09-06 23:03:48.
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09/06/2004 11:19:29 PM · #62 |
I just reached 303 votes in "framing" and need just one more to reach 100 votes in "Travel Guides"... How many votes have you got?
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09/06/2004 11:53:02 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by Amason:
It's good to have some kind of a voting system, but I don't think your voting system is working right for this challenge, sorry. |
Dude, nothing personal, but you are getting a little too carried away with this, especially considering we're saying the same thing with different words...I am sorry to have gotten you so worked up, trying to imagine how I would vote on an entry the would be fit for a guide book to Iraq or Nepal.
This has nothing to do with being 'kind.' It's just a matter of being realistic. As I've said before, the digital camera is going to handle most of the technical details. That, coupled with the image being in the realm of the challenge, should get it to 5 points. What's left? Composition, creativity, and the WOW factor. For me, that comes down to the photographer doing the job of creating an appealing image that conveys something interesting or attractive or informative about a place. The better the image, the higher the score.
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