SIZE DOES MATTER - DPChallenge Forums

08/27/2013 09:53:30 AM · #1

Caught your attention didn't I...lol

I am entering the photo contest for Ding Darling NWR Photo Contest - Rules and I need to get the sizing on my photos right...so if you have time to help me out I would really appreciate it...

I haven't hardly ever printed any of my photo's so sizing is something that totally alludes me. I just don't get it. Usually I play with a photo until I get it right but since I don't usually print it out I'm not even sure if "it is right".

1) Who do you use for a printing company (not canvas' but regular printing) I have about a week and half to get this done.

2) I need to resize these 2 photo's to a printable size of 8 x 10...I do not understand the "full frame 8 x 12" sizing. I think that most mats that I will find will have an 8 x 10 opening...not 8 x 12 right???

These are the two pictures (I think they are sized for here 800) but I have the original sizes that I'm working on...but because of my limitation with DPC and using the VPN I can't "upload" a photo at the moment...sigh so what do you need to know about the original sizes?

I use Photoshop Elements for all my sizing and web

3) if you see anything obviously wrong with these photo's please tell me...I have been working with them for quite sometime...and you know how that goes you become blind to the problems.

Thanks in advance for your help...

Janine

Message edited by author 2013-08-27 09:57:34.

08/27/2013 09:59:29 AM · #2

8x12 is the same ratio as a 4x6, a standard size for digital printing. 8x10 is a carryover from the old days (large-format negatives were in that proportion) and is not really relevant to modern cameras. You have to crop on the long side quite a bit to get to 8x10 proportions.

You should be able to set your crop tool in Elements to the proportions you want and then just draw in on the full-size image the crop that works.

08/27/2013 10:26:48 AM · #3

I had thought about the crop tool because when I use image sizing everything goes wacky wooo...

Question...

On the first image...is there anyway that I can resize it so I can keep the top and bottom of the photo (or at least the majority of it???)...I really don't want to crop that out as I feel it really adds to the photo...

suggestions???

08/27/2013 10:40:00 AM · #4

1. I use Meridian Pro out of Parsons, KS. They get the colors exactly right and they use Kodak Endura paper. I send them a high resolution (350ppi), JPEG, sRGB file via ROES ordering software. The files are usually 15- 35 MB ea. There are several other wonderful photolabs around, which may be closer to FL. I've never used //www.whcc.com , but I hear good things about them, too.

2. 8x10 and 8x12 will both fit in an 11x14 (outside dimensions) mat. You can find, or have custom made, an 11x14 mat with either size opening. Just make sure the photo print is slightly larger than the mat opening... in order to avoid a white sliver. Sounds like you are to submit prints and digital files. In general, I have good sales luck with vertically oriented images at 8x10, rather then 8x12. Horizontally oriented images can be more effective as the longer rectangle. I think your composition within the allowed size is more important than proportions. For enlarged prints, you'll want to keep the resolution at 220ppi or higher. Should not be a problem for 8x10 or 8x12.

3. Love your photos. The Ding Darling wildlife preserve is fantastic. In general, wildlife images should allow for the bird or animal the freedom to move forward. To me, that means composing your images asymmetrically with more room on the side of the bird's direction of travel.

Message edited by author 2013-08-27 11:05:07.

08/27/2013 10:46:12 AM · #5

Originally posted by Ja-9:

That image is 880x1280 pixels. That is a proportion of 1.45. For 8x12 you need 1.50. So use your crop tool in your pp software and set to 4x6 ratio. You'll be cropping out some pixels, but the image has room to do so. Now, I assume you have a much higher resolution file to work with for this. I'm hoping you have something like a 2000x3000 pixel image. If so, you won't have any trouble with resolution in an 8x12 enlargement.

Message edited by author 2013-08-27 10:46:49.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

08/27/2013 11:54:49 AM · #6

Thanks for weighing in, Richard. You're much more up-to-date on this than I am, I rarely print anymore.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

08/27/2013 11:58:25 AM · #7

Originally posted by Ja-9:

I use Photoshop Elements for all my sizing and web

If you're shooting RAW, when the image first comes up in the RAW converter, you have a crop tool on the upper left.

If you right click on the crop icon, it gives you crop options......one of them is 8x10.

You can move it around, shrink it down, or enlarge it, and because it's preset, it will adjust the sides & height for your preference.

As far as sizing, when you open the image after converting it, click on the dropdown for Image>Image Size, and a box will open that should show you both pixels & inches.

HTH.....

08/27/2013 12:03:34 PM · #8

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Thanks for weighing in, Richard. You're much more up-to-date on this than I am, I rarely print anymore.

After the Colorado fires of summer 2012, I didn't replace my photo quality wide carriage printer. Instead, i switched to a pro lab because they were able to meet my printing needs at a very economical price. Best thing I ever did. I receive great quality prints. (aluminum prints and canvas wraps, too.) It's allowed me to spend more time on my photography and business ops.

08/27/2013 12:03:44 PM · #9

Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by Ja-9:
I had thought about the crop tool because when I use image sizing everything goes wacky wooo...

Question...

On the first image...is there anyway that I can resize it so I can keep the top and bottom of the photo (or at least the majority of it???)...I really don't want to crop that out as I feel it really adds to the photo...

suggestions???

That image is 880x1280 pixels. That is a proportion of 1.45. For 8x12 you need 1.50. So use your crop tool in your pp software and set to 4x6 ratio. You'll be cropping out some pixels, but the image has room to do so. Now, I assume you have a much higher resolution file to work with for this. I'm hoping you have something like a 2000x3000 pixel image. If so, you won't have any trouble with resolution in an 8x12 enlargement.

I am working with full size (errr cropped full size) on my computer...what is in my WS is sized down from that...I can't upload at this time my full resolution pictures...VPN won't let me????

the dimenions on the Tri-Colored Heron is...3264 x 4928 resolution 300ppi - I just don't want to loose to much on the top and bottom of the photo as to me it really adds to the perspective/dimension of the photo??? Maybe I'm wrong...???

08/27/2013 12:07:36 PM · #10

Originally posted by Ja-9:

the dimenions on the Tri-Colored Heron is...3264 x 4928 resolution 300ppi - I just don't want to loose to much on the top and bottom of the photo as to me it really adds to the perspective/dimension of the photo??? Maybe I'm wrong...???

That one's nearly perfect proportionally already. It just needs a few pixels shaved off left and right to make it 4x6 ratio.

08/27/2013 12:21:35 PM · #11

Originally posted by Ja-9:

Your proportion is 1.5098. Almost perfect for the 1.50 proportion required. Crop 32 pixels off the top and/or the bottom. Then, it will be a fine 8x12 with ample resolution for a high quality print. Composition is always the choice of the artist. You have shown us a symmetrical and horizontally centered image. Your subject works pretty well for that. Get some feedback from others on a symmetrical version vs. an asymmetrical version. One, or the other, will have more eye appeal.

The upload problems from location are vexing, but not insurmountable. When you have your file exactly the way you want it, load the file onto a flash drive. Go to the closest library or friend's house with high speed Internet connection and upload at will. This is easy for me to say, as I'm not in your location. Is the entire county or region without Internet?

08/27/2013 12:24:39 PM · #12

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by Ja-9:
the dimenions on the Tri-Colored Heron is...3264 x 4928 resolution 300ppi - I just don't want to loose to much on the top and bottom of the photo as to me it really adds to the perspective/dimension of the photo??? Maybe I'm wrong...???

That one's nearly perfect proportionally already. It just needs a few pixels shaved off left and right to make it 4x6 ratio.

ok...so if I take just a bit off the pixels on the left side and crop it 4 x 6 but print it 8 x 10 it will work...right...

I'm sooooo stupid with this...

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

08/27/2013 12:29:11 PM · #13

Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by Ja-9:

I am working with full size (errr cropped full size) on my computer...what is in my WS is sized down from that...I can't upload at this time my full resolution pictures...VPN won't let me????

the dimenions on the Tri-Colored Heron is...3264 x 4928 resolution 300ppi - I just don't want to loose to much on the top and bottom of the photo as to me it really adds to the perspective/dimension of the photo??? Maybe I'm wrong...???

Your proportion is 1.5098. Almost perfect for the 1.50 proportion required. Crop 32 pixels off the top and/or the bottom. Then, it will be a fine 8x12 with ample resolution for a high quality print. Composition is always the choice of the artist. You have shown us a symmetrical and horizontally centered image. Your subject works pretty well for that. Get some feedback from others on a symmetrical version vs. an asymmetrical version. One, or the other, will have more eye appeal.

The upload problems from location are vexing, but not insurmountable. When you have your file exactly the way you want it, load the file onto a flash drive. Go to the closest library or friend's house with high speed Internet connection and upload at will. This is easy for me to say, as I'm not in your location. Is the entire county or region without Internet?

No it seems to be narrowed down to the Brighthouse people in my area that I've been able to discern so far...and given their ability to communicate both with me/Sargarrso/themselves...I'm betting on a couple more weeks of problems....

Thank you so much for your help both Richard and Robert...this is a huge part of why I don't go to the next step with my photography is the printing/sizing issues...such a stumbling block when "you (I) just don't get it"...and it's not that I haven't read things or tried others out...I JUST DON'T GET IT....frustrating (but then...welcome to my life of late...lol)

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

08/27/2013 12:40:22 PM · #14

Originally posted by Ja-9:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by Ja-9:
the dimenions on the Tri-Colored Heron is...3264 x 4928 resolution 300ppi - I just don't want to loose to much on the top and bottom of the photo as to me it really adds to the perspective/dimension of the photo??? Maybe I'm wrong...???

That one's nearly perfect proportionally already. It just needs a few pixels shaved off left and right to make it 4x6 ratio.

ok...so if I take just a bit off the pixels on the left side and crop it 4 x 6 but print it 8 x 10 it will work...right...

I'm sooooo stupid with this...

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I think bear may have meant 4x5 not 4x6 - 4x5 is the same ratio as 8x10.. (note that 8/2=4 and 10/2=5)

We can pretty easily work this out in pixels too. Let's call the short side's pixel count Y, and we'll call the long side's pixel count Z -
X=Y/4
Z=X*5

- You can then use this to solve for Z, giving you the number of pixels you will want to keep on the long length, while allowing you to keep the full number of short edge pixels.

If your image is a strange proportion, then reversing this, by using the short edge pixels will allow us to solve for Y, giving us the number of short edge pixels we can keep
X=Z/4
Y=Z*5

..

Just plug in the numbers and do the math. :)

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

08/27/2013 12:48:22 PM · #15

Richard since you sell prints for a living...

Lamination - Glossy/Matte ???

Coating - Luster/Glossy ???

What do they mean by "Single-Wt Matboard"? I assume that they will mount it in a mat frame? Do I want the Double one?

Can you tell I NEVER print anymore..

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

08/27/2013 12:49:18 PM · #16

Just to show an example, let's use your image dimensions from above:

3264 x 4928

So, first, let's see which we want to crop - we're going for 8x10

3264 / 8 = 408
4928 / 10 = 493

Since the long edge here is the larger number, that means we have extra pixels on that edge.

So, we'll use the long-edge calculation:
Again, let's call the short side's pixel count Y, and we'll call the long side's pixel count Z -
X=Y/4
Z=X*5

So, here we'll need the short side's pixel count: 3264
X=3264/4
Therefore, X=816
Ok, now we have X, let's solve for the long edge length, Z
Z=816*5
So, Z=4080
With this, we now know that our 'best' 8x10 in terms of maximum pixels retention is going to be 3264 x 4080 ..

So, if you want to crop quickly, just open up 'resize canvas' and plug in those dimensions. Otherwise, you can crop/distort/etc, to get to those dimensions.

....

...

.

Now that you've gone through all that theory - here's the easy way to do this.

Grab the crop tool, set the parameters to NOT specify a pixels per inch rating, set the dimensions (8x10 in this case), and simply use the crop tool. Bingo- instant 8x10, using all your pixel data. :)

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

08/27/2013 01:09:51 PM · #17

I just downloaded the contest rules (can't read them online) -- let me check them out and I'll post some "advice" (I do a fair amount of printing) or maybe have some more questions shortly.

08/27/2013 01:26:42 PM · #18

No, I thought she WANTED 4x6/8x12 proportions.

Janine, remind me to give you a lesson in this when we hook up later this month OK? :-)

Message edited by author 2013-08-27 13:29:47.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

08/27/2013 01:32:05 PM · #19

Originally posted by Ja-9:

Lamination is a "plastic" coating for use on images out in the weather. I have done this for Field ID cards for birds. But, it's a specialized purpose use which you probably don't want on a show print. You cannot, or don't want to, laminate AND coat.

Coating: Luster surface is the standard surface for Kodak Endura Professional photographic paper. The luster surface is between a glossy finish and a matte finish. It is excellent for realistic color saturation and color accuracy. This is what I order 99% of the time. A glossy finish is, well, glossy. Too many reflections from ambient light sources. A Matte finish is flat. Some special purpose "art" prints look ok on matte finish paper.

Single wt. matboard. Of course, single-weight matboard is 1/16" thick and double-weight matboard is 1/8" thick. The matboard we use is the standard 1/16". We usually refer to that as a single mat. It's one layer thick... usually with a beveled inside edge. it's probably what you want for the contest. We sell most of my matted prints with double mats (two single mats) of complementary color, with the inner mat forming a distinctive inner border. It has a tendency to set off the image and add depth (and improve sales).

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

08/27/2013 01:39:59 PM · #20

First, I'm pretty sure that by "full-frame 8x12" they mean they want the photo itself to fill the 8x12 area, without any borders or letterboxing to make it fit the paper.

For printing (at a "typical" resolution of 300 dpi) you want your 8x10 image to be 2400 x 3000 pixels, the 8x12 should be 2400 x 3600 pixels.

If you are using Photoshop (or Elements) you should be able to set all three parameters of the crop tool (L x W x Resolution) and end up with a printable image. Note that this process includes resampling of the original data, so you may need to apply additional sharpening.

If you want to avoid any resampling, you can set the rectangular selection tool to the appropriate number of pixels (see above), move it around to the position you want, and use the menu item Image > Crop. This option limits your compositional flexibility.

We do have a tutorial posted resizing pictures to standard print sizes which may explain things more clearly. It's all simple arithmetic ... :-(

If you get really desperate, send me the originals (processed from RAW to TIFF first) and I'll crop them for you.

Note that some printers enlarge the image slightly to account for paper misalignment and avoid a white unexposed area along an edge. At the end of this article of printer profiles from Dry Creek Photo is a section on recommended dimensions (in pixels) for different printers (often 1-2% larger than the calculated size), but this is not too important unless you have some important detail close to an edge.