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 08/20/2013 11:12:18 AM · #51
It's an interesting conundrum. Consider the following: we're allowed to use multiple images of the same scene for the purpose of tweaking the dynamic range or for focus stacking. So, presumably, if I take one exposure that's so underexposed EVERYthing is black, and layer it with one where the horse is properly exposed, that's viable HDR, right? You might say "no" because the frame that has the horse properly exposed also shows the BG detail, but I could counter by saying that the ESSENCE of HDR, before the programs automated it, was hand-erasing from each layer of the composite whatever it was you didn't want to see...
 08/20/2013 11:15:41 AM · #52
It's so simple to darken areas of a photo and make them disappear. The rules should be changed to allow this. It will make for a lot of lifeless photos with no backgrounds, but there's no reason such things should be DQ'd.

It's not even fair to call the notion of photography on this site "outdated" because it never existed at any date. The skills you learn in this site, how to edit a photo within arbitrary limitations, are completely useless outside of this site. So that doesn't make for a good learning site.
 08/20/2013 11:25:04 AM · #53
Thank goodness for Juliet who explains these things slow so I get it quick!

The pure wonder of this horse cannot be tarnished by a DQ or validated by any educated lesson other than what resides in the knowing heart. Shame on anyone who thinks otherwise!

Boo hiss on this DQ!
08/20/2013 11:48:41 AM · #54
Fine. I'll be the dissenter.

I don't know if the rule is fair or not, and don't honestly care to bother with discussing it. It's the rule - petition SC and Langdon to change it if you're so against it. Personally, I like it, since it gives me some level of confidence that I'm looking more at a photo and less at digital art. (yes, I know you can burn the snot outta stuff in the darkroom, I've even been guilty of the same) Recently, one of my photographs that I took with a massive home built rig, was readily dismissed by at least some voters as a cheap photoshop effect. Boy, that sucked. You want more of that? So that when you actually get the lighting PERFECT you've gotta deal with people punishing you for burning the image too much?

Don says that what we do here is completely useless outside of this site. I disagree.

DPC's major value, IMO, is in teaching you how to operate your camera in a way that gives you amazing results right out of the camera. It's one of the reasons why I'm advocating for more Minimal Editing challenges. If getting better photos without needing to edit isn't valuable outside of DPC, then I'm not sure if anything ever could be.

08/20/2013 12:07:03 PM · #55
The colour photo I posted is not the original. It is the colour version I was going to enter instead of the Black and White. I also edited them separately which is why they are slightly different from each other and why the horses head is not exactly the same as the Black and White version.

Yes, it was taken in the doorway of his Stable/barn. There are Bars in the background and shavings on the ground. I guess being new to all this I guess I misunderstood the editing rules!?!.. I didn't think that darkening down the background and enhancing the vignette would be an issue.
Although it was a dark background it wasn't dark enough for Black on Black which is why I darkened it. that is all i have done, i have not cut any part of the photo or copied any other parts onto the photo.

I am still happy that people liked my photo enough to vote it 3rd. I am reluctant to enter anything else.I am absolutely gutted that my second ever entry was DQ.

I am still waiting for a reply on the exact DQ from DPC
 08/20/2013 12:10:32 PM · #56
Originally posted by SamPawley:
The colour photo I posted is not the original. It is the colour version I was going to enter instead of the Black and White. I also edited them separately which is why they are slightly different from each other and why the horses head is not exactly the same as the Black and White version.

Yes, it was taken in the doorway of his Stable/barn. There are Bars in the background and shavings on the ground. I guess being new to all this I guess I misunderstood the editing rules!?!.. I didn't think that darkening down the background and enhancing the vignette would be an issue.
Although it was a dark background it wasn't dark enough for Black on Black which is why I darkened it. that is all i have done, i have not cut any part of the photo or copied any other parts onto the photo.

I am still happy that people liked my photo enough to vote it 3rd. I am reluctant to enter anything else.I am absolutely gutted that my second ever entry was DQ.

I am still waiting for a reply on the exact DQ from DPC


I've never gotten a ribbon... So even if I got DQd, the fact the voters liked it would have been enough for me.
Besides... Consider it a lesson learned. :)
 08/20/2013 12:14:48 PM · #57
Originally posted by Denielle:
Originally posted by SamPawley:
The colour photo I posted is not the original. It is the colour version I was going to enter instead of the Black and White. I also edited them separately which is why they are slightly different from each other and why the horses head is not exactly the same as the Black and White version.

Yes, it was taken in the doorway of his Stable/barn. There are Bars in the background and shavings on the ground. I guess being new to all this I guess I misunderstood the editing rules!?!.. I didn't think that darkening down the background and enhancing the vignette would be an issue.
Although it was a dark background it wasn't dark enough for Black on Black which is why I darkened it. that is all i have done, i have not cut any part of the photo or copied any other parts onto the photo.

I am still happy that people liked my photo enough to vote it 3rd. I am reluctant to enter anything else.I am absolutely gutted that my second ever entry was DQ.

I am still waiting for a reply on the exact DQ from DPC


I've never gotten a ribbon... So even if I got DQd, the fact the voters liked it would have been enough for me.
Besides... Consider it a lesson learned. :)


Thanks Denielle....I am really pleased and over the moon of where it got voted...that is all that matters to me :) The fact that people liked it enough to vote it to 3rd...

its not like you get mega prize money anyway... sh*t happens....i'm still pleased!
08/20/2013 12:20:38 PM · #58
Originally posted by SamPawley:
The colour photo I posted is not the original. It is the colour version I was going to enter instead of the Black and White. I also edited them separately which is why they are slightly different from each other and why the horses head is not exactly the same as the Black and White version.

Yes, it was taken in the doorway of his Stable/barn. There are Bars in the background and shavings on the ground. I guess being new to all this I guess I misunderstood the editing rules!?!.. I didn't think that darkening down the background and enhancing the vignette would be an issue.
Although it was a dark background it wasn't dark enough for Black on Black which is why I darkened it. that is all i have done, i have not cut any part of the photo or copied any other parts onto the photo.

I am still happy that people liked my photo enough to vote it 3rd. I am reluctant to enter anything else.I am absolutely gutted that my second ever entry was DQ.

I am still waiting for a reply on the exact DQ from DPC


I REALLY hope you stay and keep entering.

Hard lesson? Hell yeah, gutted for sure. But, you've learned your lesson (however fair or unfair), and should keep playing here.

Besides, if you'd only ribboned, and that was the end of it, no-one would have REALLY noticed. Now that you've been the center of a controversy you're a known entity here, and already have friends. I vote stay, and play. :D
 08/20/2013 12:31:09 PM · #59
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by SamPawley:
The colour photo I posted is not the original. It is the colour version I was going to enter instead of the Black and White. I also edited them separately which is why they are slightly different from each other and why the horses head is not exactly the same as the Black and White version.

Yes, it was taken in the doorway of his Stable/barn. There are Bars in the background and shavings on the ground. I guess being new to all this I guess I misunderstood the editing rules!?!.. I didn't think that darkening down the background and enhancing the vignette would be an issue.
Although it was a dark background it wasn't dark enough for Black on Black which is why I darkened it. that is all i have done, i have not cut any part of the photo or copied any other parts onto the photo.

I am still happy that people liked my photo enough to vote it 3rd. I am reluctant to enter anything else.I am absolutely gutted that my second ever entry was DQ.

I am still waiting for a reply on the exact DQ from DPC


I REALLY hope you stay and keep entering.

Hard lesson? Hell yeah, gutted for sure. But, you've learned your lesson (however fair or unfair), and should keep playing here.

Besides, if you'd only ribboned, and that was the end of it, no-one would have REALLY noticed. Now that you've been the center of a controversy you're a known entity here, and already have friends. I vote stay, and play. :D


Thanks Cory, That means a lot... I guess i am still feeling a little Crashed and Burned
 08/20/2013 12:43:05 PM · #60
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Lol Nadine!

It will be interesting to learn if the photo is indeed a DQ from the SC if it was the background that was the reason for the DQ. I await , with bated breath! =)


Juliet, I hope you didn't stop breathing until now! :)

In answer to your question:



Doesn't show the bg in any way. Not even the side of the barn door



Same result as above

To continue with the other image you've taken as example:



Shows perfectly clear the black line running over the photograph and over the bottom leafs of the flower.
This line is clearly visible from left to right.

08/20/2013 12:53:42 PM · #61
So it sounds as if it was a vignetting/burning issue... I sort of thought that might be the answer, although it's a shame.
But for the whole of us, it is certainly worth noting. Vignettes (especially the ones that come with plug ins) are overlays in effect, right? - I have been warned that borders in NIK are too. So I guess in moderation they're ok but in this case not because it obliterated too much of the photo underneath?
Sam, please stay with us. We all are still learning. And a ribbon and a high score can only be taken away in spirit.
 08/20/2013 12:58:30 PM · #62
Originally posted by SamPawley:
The colour photo I posted is not the original. It is the colour version I was going to enter instead of the Black and White. I also edited them separately which is why they are slightly different from each other and why the horses head is not exactly the same as the Black and White version.

Yes, it was taken in the doorway of his Stable/barn. There are Bars in the background and shavings on the ground. I guess being new to all this I guess I misunderstood the editing rules!?!.. I didn't think that darkening down the background and enhancing the vignette would be an issue.
Although it was a dark background it wasn't dark enough for Black on Black which is why I darkened it. that is all i have done, i have not cut any part of the photo or copied any other parts onto the photo.

I am still happy that people liked my photo enough to vote it 3rd. I am reluctant to enter anything else.I am absolutely gutted that my second ever entry was DQ.

I am still waiting for a reply on the exact DQ from DPC


Sam, please, don't let this take you down.
Shame it happened on a entry which ribboned. I mean, the second one you enter and - kabeng - a ribbon already.
But, if I were in your shoes, I would prefer it happens on one of my first entries - even one that ribbons - than on entry number 215 or whatever. Because in the beginning, all the rule sets can be pretty confusing. After x entries, you are supposed to know them. Or at least understand them.
As you see, they still create doubts and let arise question marks above the heads of experienced members, hence the discussion here.
And, guess what: even the best photographers here already got DQ - for multiple reasons.
I for myself check each time the applicable rule set, because I'm too afraid to get a DQ.

But, then I never ribboned and I never had such an amazing entry as the one of Nautilus.

Message edited by author 2013-08-20 13:02:10.
 08/20/2013 01:05:02 PM · #63
Here's another thought that came to mind... Think about if it fell middle of the pack... You wouldn't have known that what you did was illegal, and would have continued to do this at times in the future. I am doubtful that the majority of images get validation requests.
I've only had one... And that was my very first entry.
And I'm never in the top ten, let alone a ribboner.

I'm probably opening myself up for validation requests now. Haha
 08/20/2013 01:09:19 PM · #64
Originally posted by Nadine_Vb:
And, guess what: even the best photographers here already got DQ - for multiple reasons.

I have one ribbon and three DQs ... :-)

Regarding the horse photo:

Original: "Side view of a horse in a barn/stall."

Entry: "Profile of a horse's head against a solid black background."
 08/20/2013 01:24:41 PM · #65
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Nadine_Vb:
And, guess what: even the best photographers here already got DQ - for multiple reasons.

I have one ribbon and three DQs ... :-)

Regarding the horse photo:

Original: "Side view of a horse in a barn/stall."

Entry: "Profile of a horse's head against a solid black background."


Butbutbut, it is not a solid black background that was entered, I can see the background.SO if that was the issue and the reason for the DQ, then it is wrong because everything in the background is visible, just because you can not see it on your screen and others can not, but I can see it and others can see it too,.,,see where I am going with this??.

BUT in saying that, if the vignetting was not in the original and put in there at the time of PS'ing, then that is illegal.

Edited to add: I am lucky or unlucky in the fact that the last two Tamron lenes I use have a really strong vignetting in the lens, sometimes annoying, but most of the time it is perfect as it works for my style of work.


Message edited by author 2013-08-20 13:27:08.
 08/20/2013 01:28:59 PM · #66
Originally posted by JulietNN:
BUT in saying that, if the vignetting was not in the original and put in there at the time of PS'ing, then that is illegal.

That's not true. We can add vignette to images in advanced editing, and do so all the time. A vignette so heavy as to obliterate what's behind it is problematical, however. Significant vignetting has been added to this image, for example:



Message edited by author 2013-08-20 13:31:20.
 08/20/2013 01:30:41 PM · #67
I think the photographic pro with a high-quality hardware-calibrated monitor is not the "typical viewer" referred-to in the rules.

But, I'm just reporting in this case -- I wasn't involved with discussing or voting on the validation of this particular photo.

FWIW AFAIK you can add a vignette in Advanced Editing challenges, but not in Basic.
 08/20/2013 04:10:57 PM · #68


Sam, please, don't let this take you down.
Shame it happened on a entry which ribboned. I mean, the second one you enter and - kabeng - a ribbon already.
But, if I were in your shoes, I would prefer it happens on one of my first entries - even one that ribbons - than on entry number 215 or whatever. Because in the beginning, all the rule sets can be pretty confusing. After x entries, you are supposed to know them. Or at least understand them.
As you see, they still create doubts and let arise question marks above the heads of experienced members, hence the discussion here.
And, guess what: even the best photographers here already got DQ - for multiple reasons.
I for myself check each time the applicable rule set, because I'm too afraid to get a DQ.

But, then I never ribboned and I never had such an amazing entry as the one of Nautilus. [/quote]

Thanks Nadine_vb....really appreciate the kind words...and thinking about what you experience people have written has made me realize better to find out early on...as yes agreed. i could have been doing this for a long time not knowing that it was/is wrong.
So thank you all for you advice and support!
 08/20/2013 05:41:33 PM · #69
It's also important to note that there is absolutely nothing wrong with ANY editing, unless it is done for a DPC challenge. The challenge is to create memorable images within varying degrees of constraint, which is why learning is considered one of the primary missions of the site. The image is divine and worthy of a ribbon. It didn't get DQd because it wasn't a good image, but because of editing rules with which you are not familiar. Many threads asking about the validity of their edit are posted by newbies all the time.
 08/20/2013 07:43:02 PM · #70
Well, that is interesting. I thought putting a vignetting on a photo was illegal. I bet I thought that because of the Basic Rules and in my brain translated that to Advanced as well.

The things you learn! Thanks Bear! <3
 08/20/2013 11:54:05 PM · #71
Sam, one of my favorite photographers on DPC was DQ'd on her 5th 10th and 15th challenge entries. I doubt you will find anyone that was around at the time speak ill of our beloved silverfoxx
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