Water Heaters - On Demand vs Tank style

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

07/26/2013 09:16:53 PM · #1

Soooooo,

My water heater is leaking, and while I've had some experience in this realm, I'm hoping some DPC'ers have more tribal knowledge than I currently possess.

I'm considering going to a tankless heater, but have concerns about the final temperature and the overall performance of these units.

Have you switched? Happy? Should I avoid a specific brand? I'd love to hear what you've found if you have gone down this road before me.

Thanks!

MarkB

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

07/26/2013 09:45:23 PM · #2

My knowledge is a few years old when I was faced with the same decision. I ended up sticking with the tank over the tankless. The primary reason was because while the tankless is less expensive to operate it was more expensive to purchase and the return period to recoup the outlay was too long. I did switch from a 40 gallon to 50 gallon tank and have never had problems with sufficient hot water with 4 showers back to back.

CNovack

Canon EOS-600D/T3i Rebel

07/26/2013 10:41:30 PM · #3

We recently had our water heater go (after 16 years it began to fail to deliver hot water). The cost of purchasing a tankless water heater is expen$$ive. As MarkB said the return period to recoup the initial output of cost is very long. Another thing to think about - I don't know what the policies are in NM - but you will need to go through a different permit process to go tankless (and that permit process $ gets billed to the costumer). I believe that is because you will have to have different plumbing for the tankless. The 'only heating the water you need' and on demand looks good but once we saw the price of the tankless that wrote it right off.

You might want to get a pricing cost - some installation companies come out and give you a free quote/estimate.

Our installer actually recommended a tank water heater for my families needs - stating tankless is nice with the on demand and that it has a smaller foot print but overall the performance is about the same with heated water and the tanks will not break your wallet in the beginning.

***just an FYI they now make 6 year water heaters. While the cost is less in the initial payout you actually spend more $ with replacing it again 6 years later. The 12+ year ones are the better deal.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

07/26/2013 11:13:48 PM · #4

Installation company?

Is that like when you invite friends over while you install it? ;)

bhuge

Canon EOS-550D Rebel T2i

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

07/26/2013 11:25:54 PM · #5

I just bought a house with a tankless. I can't speak for the upfront cost, but usage wise I love it. Can fill the giant soaking tub without worry of running out. I've also been very happy with the final temp. I like my water very hot yet I still had to turn down the temp setting so it wouldn't burn me. It does have a mechanical motor noise whenever you use hot water, so if you are going to have it anywhere except a garage, the noise might bug you.

Message edited by author 2013-07-26 23:26:28.

CNovack

Canon EOS-600D/T3i Rebel

07/26/2013 11:33:07 PM · #6

Originally posted by Cory:

Installation company?

Is that like when you invite friends over while you install it? ;)

:-) Well if you know how to do the plumbing and are comfortable with installing that sort of thing I guess that is the right definition:-) The thing is, by the time you are done installing it, your friends will have drunk all the beer and eaten all the pizza:-) :-)

Seriously though, with either tank or tankless they both require a permit to be filed to make sure it's to code. Sounds as if you are thinking of doing the plumbing yourself to save on cost mayhap. If you have the skill set more power to you. The most I'd be comfortable installing is the sink garbage disposal and cleaning out a clog in the sink P-Trap (which I've done both rather than pay the plumber)

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

07/26/2013 11:44:40 PM · #7

Originally posted by CNovack:

Originally posted by Cory:
Installation company?

Is that like when you invite friends over while you install it? ;)

:-) Well if you know how to do the plumbing and are comfortable with installing that sort of thing I guess that is the right definition:-) The thing is, by the time you are done installing it, your friends will have drunk all the beer and eaten all the pizza:-) :-)

Seriously though, with either tank or tankless they both require a permit to be filed to make sure it's to code. Sounds as if you are thinking of doing the plumbing yourself to save on cost mayhap. If you have the skill set more power to you. The most I'd be comfortable installing is the sink garbage disposal and cleaning out a clog in the sink P-Trap (which I've done both rather than pay the plumber)

Heh.. Code... Permit...

I live in a place where people commonly erect buildings without a permit. Hell, the county assessor just discovered a bunch of houses they didn't even know existed. :) If code enforcement was ever actually put to work here, half the dwellings in town would be declared uninhabitable.

Really though, I'm doing the install so that it's done right - I tend to not approve of how other people cut corners on everything - left up to the jokers around here, they'd probably just duct-tape the pipes instead of soldering them.

..

Guess I'll probably just go back with the tank style heater, easier to install, and way cheaper - besides, we'll probably unload this place in the next few years.

MikeJ

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

07/27/2013 01:18:30 AM · #8

When you sale your house is when having everything installed with the proper permits comes into play... if the people buying do due diligence in their inspection. Not having gotten a permit for something installed could kill a deal real quick.

I did some research on on demand type heaters last year and one thing I found, besides being very expensive as everyone has said, is that they don't last as long as a regular water heater. Some people started having problems even after a few years for the cheaper ones to not much longer for the higher priced ones. If you did get one, go with a European model and not a Chinese made one. At least when I was in the Air Force stationed in Germany the ones we had in the houses there were very solid and did a great job.

Another thing I considered was the smaller tank water heaters, say 5 to 10 gallon size. They are bigger but would be good in a bathroom or out on the patio (we were looking for a way to do a dog bath so we wouldn't have to run a hose from the kitchen sink every time) or shop or other place where it takes a long time for the hot water to get to the faucet. The energy you save by not having to waste the cold water really adds up over a long period of time. I lived in our travel trailer for a year and half and used the trailer gas 6 gallon tank and was able to take a good shower every morning without running out of hot water... it was so hot I didn't have to turn it on very much and mixed in cold water. It heated up pretty quick too.

But there is something to say for a 50 or 60 gallon hot water heater that allows you to take long hot showers or fill large soaker tubs if you want. :D

Mike

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100

07/27/2013 02:11:42 AM · #9

Well, I did a bit of research.

The city here doesn't issue permits for anything of that nature, it's a state permit.

Which means a five day waiting period, two sets of plans, hiring a licensed contractor, and having water destroying my house for a week or two, or no water heater for a week or two, inspections, fees, etc.

yeah, right... To quote an old favorite character "Homie don't play dat"

Thanks though for the heads-up, a bit of foresight here will definitely pay off, as I'm sure I can find a solution to this problem before it becomes one. ;)

Message edited by author 2013-07-27 02:12:52.

spiritualspatula

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

07/27/2013 09:43:13 AM · #10

Since it sounds like Cory has already decided what he's doing, this is a bit pointless for him, but for many home improvements of this nature, it is wise to consult your city to see if you are eligible for a rebate, particularly in areas that stress conservation or for which water is generally more of a commodity. The city I used to live in offers $400 for anybody who switches to a tankless or high efficiency water heater, for instance. They also offer all sorts of other incentives for efficient housing and wise water usage. Just something to consider.

Mike

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

07/27/2013 10:25:36 AM · #11

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by CNovack:

Originally posted by Cory:
Installation company?

Is that like when you invite friends over while you install it? ;)

:-) Well if you know how to do the plumbing and are comfortable with installing that sort of thing I guess that is the right definition:-) The thing is, by the time you are done installing it, your friends will have drunk all the beer and eaten all the pizza:-) :-)

Seriously though, with either tank or tankless they both require a permit to be filed to make sure it's to code. Sounds as if you are thinking of doing the plumbing yourself to save on cost mayhap. If you have the skill set more power to you. The most I'd be comfortable installing is the sink garbage disposal and cleaning out a clog in the sink P-Trap (which I've done both rather than pay the plumber)

Heh.. Code... Permit...

I live in a place where people commonly erect buildings without a permit. Hell, the county assessor just discovered a bunch of houses they didn't even know existed. :) If code enforcement was ever actually put to work here, half the dwellings in town would be declared uninhabitable.

Really though, I'm doing the install so that it's done right - I tend to not approve of how other people cut corners on everything - left up to the jokers around here, they'd probably just duct-tape the pipes instead of soldering them.

..

Guess I'll probably just go back with the tank style heater, easier to install, and way cheaper - besides, we'll probably unload this place in the next few years.

when i did the research a few years ago, the only reason i would even consider it was if i used a lot of hot water, at this time i don't, but when my kids get older (especially with a daughter and wife) if everyone is getting ready at the same time, the on demand would be a real luxury.

screw permits, if you're doing it yourself, if the inspector can't see you do it, you don't need a permit if you know what you are doing. the permit is there to protect you from a incompetent contractor.

Message edited by author 2013-07-27 10:26:05.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

07/27/2013 11:35:47 AM · #12

I agree about the long payback for tankless. I still will consider them when I have to replace my 20-year-old unit, for two reasons:
1.) I can install two smaller units, one at each end of the house; that will eliminate the 75-foot run from the heater to the master bath.
2.) We are here for the long term, so a long pay-off isn't a real concern, and all things being equal, I'll do the environmentally sound thing.

Mike

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

07/27/2013 11:42:39 AM · #13

Originally posted by kirbic:

wow 20yrs? mine lasted 8, of course is was crap contractor grade.

Message edited by author 2013-07-27 11:42:50.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

07/27/2013 12:20:58 PM · #14

Originally posted by Mike:

wow 20yrs? mine lasted 8, of course is was crap contractor grade.

Yeh, tell me about it, I'm just waiting for it to go. It's especially surprising because we are on private well. Even though we have good water treatment equipment now, we didn't always. The thing has not had one single problem since I installed it.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/27/2013 12:33:19 PM · #15

Originally posted by kirbic:

Mine's over 20 years old on a well without any water treatment. I don't expect it to reach 21, though.

07/27/2013 12:37:33 PM · #16

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

No, not pointless at all. I will take a look - although, if you're curious about our politics and other such stuff in the area, look up the Socorro Electric Coop board - we're starting to make the City of Bell CA look pretty good in fact.

MarkB

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

07/27/2013 12:38:27 PM · #17

Sometimes water treatment can cause them to go more quickly as the salts used to soften the water are more corrosive.