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06/12/2013 06:46:13 PM · #1 |
Panasonic & Fuji Developed World̢۪s First Organic Sensor with 29.2 stops of Dynamic Range
Interesting breakthrough. It is a bit on the techy side but worth reading, especially if you do not understand how your CMOS works now. |
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06/12/2013 07:20:27 PM · #2 |
| A very interesting announcement indeed! That's one whopping lot of DR! The downsed is, even a 16-bit RAW file isn't going to be sufficient to hold that kind of data depth. |
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06/12/2013 07:30:56 PM · #3 |
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06/12/2013 07:33:00 PM · #4 |
| that sample image is amazing. |
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06/12/2013 07:34:59 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by Mike:
that sample image is amazing. |
Which sample image? I didn't see one. |
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06/12/2013 07:38:40 PM · #6 |
the one of the fruit with the completely blown highlights. its was small but still if it picks up that level of detail in the dark without clipping the whites...
Message edited by author 2013-06-12 19:39:32. |
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06/12/2013 07:45:37 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by Mike:
the one of the fruit with the completely blown highlights. its was small but still if it picks up that level of detail in the dark without clipping the whites... |
Not sure that's really a sample - looked like a simulated image to me. |
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06/12/2013 07:47:57 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Mike:
the one of the fruit with the completely blown highlights. its was small but still if it picks up that level of detail in the dark without clipping the whites... |
Not sure that's really a sample - looked like a simulated image to me. |
its says right under the image "sample image taken with organic CMOS sensor" |
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06/12/2013 11:34:24 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Mike:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Mike:
the one of the fruit with the completely blown highlights. its was small but still if it picks up that level of detail in the dark without clipping the whites... |
Not sure that's really a sample - looked like a simulated image to me. |
its says right under the image "sample image taken with organic CMOS sensor" |
I see that of course, but "sample" may not mean "actual image" |
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06/13/2013 01:02:44 PM · #10 |
So they are applying that dumbass ORGANIC term to a camera sensor, now? What the hell difference does it make? Hate hearing it anymore. Applied to almost anything and everything, mainly to make people think it is good for the environment or themselvesâ€Â¦not to mention so they can charge 3 times more for it.
Besidesâ€Â¦read the comments. One person claims the formula is wrong and it only has 14.something stops. |
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06/13/2013 01:18:53 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
So they are applying that dumbass ORGANIC term to a camera sensor, now? What the hell difference does it make? Hate hearing it anymore. Applied to almost anything and everything, mainly to make people think it is good for the environment or themselvesâ€Â¦not to mention so they can charge 3 times more for it.
Besidesâ€Â¦read the comments. One person claims the formula is wrong and it only has 14.something stops. |
When the term "organic" is used with reference to electronics, its meaning is quite different than, for instance "organic vegetables." In the context of the sensor reported on, organic specifically refers to the use of organic (carbon-based) compounds as the photon-capture media.
And FWIW, I've never seen an inorganic vegetable ;-)
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06/13/2013 01:22:53 PM · #12 |
| Why bother showing an image when our monitor can't even come close to showing 29 stops of information? It's like a TV commercial for a TV. It's only gonna look as good as the crappy TV you are watching it on. |
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06/13/2013 01:57:27 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Why bother showing an image when our monitor can't even come close to showing 29 stops of information? It's like a TV commercial for a TV. It's only gonna look as good as the crappy TV you are watching it on. |
Shhh ... you're going to ruin the online home electronics business!
Are there even 29 stops between 0°K and incandescence/vaporization? 2^29 is a pretty big number ...
Message edited by author 2013-06-13 13:57:54. |
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06/13/2013 02:56:37 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Are there even 29 stops between 0°K and incandescence/vaporization? 2^29 is a pretty big number ... |
ROFL! It sure does seem like overkill. But looks can be deceiving. 2^29 is about 5.3 x 10^8, about half a billion.
Modern sensors commonly achieve 11 or 12 stops of effective DR, which seems like a lot, but folks routinely shoot HDR and expand that by 10 stops or more. Imagine being able to shoot a single frame and pull detail out of the deepest shadows, while eliminating blown highlights even with the sun in frame. That's the kind of thing that would be possible with that kind of DR.
In the end, I'll believe it when I see the proof of the image quality. Foveon was supposed to revolutionize imaging, and the technology has yet to really best Bayer-filtered sensors in overall performance.
IMO, the ultimate sensor would just count the quanta as they come in, rather than accumulate charge. That way, DR would be effectively infinite; you can just keep counting photons as long as you like. The ideal sensor would also record the energy of each incident photon, giving color information and making Bayer filters obsolete. I'm not holding my breath; each pixel in such a sensor would need to count over a billion photons per second at the kind of pixel sizes used in today's SLR sensors!
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06/13/2013 03:18:36 PM · #15 |
| any improvement is better than we have now. |
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06/13/2013 03:43:21 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Mike:
any improvement is better than we have now. |
Isn't that the definition of "improvement"? Unless it's Microsoft Word 6 ...
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Are there even 29 stops between 0°K and incandescence/vaporization? 2^29 is a pretty big number ... |
ROFL! It sure does seem like overkill. But looks can be deceiving. 2^29 is about 5.3 x 10^8, about half a billion. |
Hence my dad's advice to follow the example of the guy who outwitted the Emperor of China, by offering my services on a monthly basis for a mere penny for the first day, as long as it was doubled each day. Now that I think of it, that sounds a lot like a cell phone contract ... ;-)
Originally posted by kirbic:
Modern sensors commonly achieve 11 or 12 stops of effective DR, which seems like a lot, but folks routinely shoot HDR and expand that by 10 stops or more. Imagine being able to shoot a single frame and pull detail out of the deepest shadows, while eliminating blown highlights even with the sun in frame. That's the kind of thing that would be possible with that kind of DR. |
I thought sensors were more in the 5-7 stop range, and that the human eye goes to 13-14 ... though I guess it doesn't matter unless the data can be measured and recorded in 16-bit or 24-bit mode ...
Message edited by author 2013-06-13 16:00:05. |
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06/13/2013 04:03:18 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
And FWIW, I've never seen an inorganic vegetable ;-) |
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06/13/2013 04:30:42 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by kirbic:
And FWIW, I've never seen an inorganic vegetable ;-) |
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I stand corrected!
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06/13/2013 11:59:21 PM · #19 |
| There are a few other benefits to the organic sensor from what I've read. Greater sensitivity because circuitry is reduced or lessened so that 100% of the light falling on the sensor can be captured. Also ultra wide lenses will be easier to manufacture since incident light levels falling on the sensor can be greater. That will also improve corner/border sharpness and vignetting. Also, pixel counts will greatly increase. They are talking that they can build an apc sensor with 41 MPs now. |
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