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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Why does Expert Editing get higher ribbon scores?
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Showing posts 26 - 43 of 43, (reverse)
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 03/01/2013 12:04:14 AM · #26
I will score some shots higher in expert editing because I always find it impressive when someone is amazing at doing something that I cannot do well.

03/01/2013 12:08:01 AM · #27
Originally posted by MNet:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Because DPC *tends* to reward surface perfection, i.e. very graphic images with a high gloss, and we have some expert editors in here that have the skill-set and are willing to invest the time required to attain that sort of perfection.

I think this is quite insulting to gyaban and samanthaT and others who put an incredible amount of intelligence, creativity, skill and hard work into their challenge entries. I think this thread is about jealousy rather than anything of substance. This is typical DPC with the same people stating the same opinions. Sad, and the main reason why DPC is in such decline. Wake up, old timers! The Expert Editing challenges are the only ones that still keep the best talent here!

That's nonsense: I CREDIT these people with expertise and perseverance. I'm in awe of Gyaban's and Samantha's abilities. Seriously.

But the question on the table was, "Why do these images get such disproportionally high scores from the DPC voters?"

Approximately half the top 30 or so high-scoring images in DPC history were done under expert editing, and a fair number of the others in that top 30 got their scores when it was MUCH easier to get a high score, so the domination of this category in "modern times" by expert editing montages is real.

Are they "worth" their scores? Sure they are; they are worth whatever they get, because the only rational way to measure worth here is by score :-)

But the question is, WHY does this class of image get such high scores, and that's what we are discussing. No insult to accomplished practitioners of the expert editing art is implied or intended.

It would be helpful if you stopped reading such negative motivations into what are, essentially, very abstract discussions.

Message edited by author 2013-03-01 00:09:15.
 03/01/2013 12:10:36 AM · #28
Originally posted by MNet:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Because DPC *tends* to reward surface perfection, i.e. very graphic images with a high gloss, and we have some expert editors in here that have the skill-set and are willing to invest the time required to attain that sort of perfection.

I think this is quite insulting to gyaban and samanthaT and others who put an incredible amount of intelligence, creativity, skill and hard work into their challenge entries. I think this thread is about jealousy rather than anything of substance. This is typical DPC with the same people stating the same opinions. Sad, and the main reason why DPC is in such decline. Wake up, old timers! The Expert Editing challenges are the only ones that still keep the best talent here!

what a crock

bear's comment was not so nearly as insulting to those expert editors as your dumping on everyone else, especially to claim that those handful of expert editors represent the best, non-decling aspects of dpc.
 03/01/2013 12:16:45 AM · #29
T=You do now realize, that as 'we' talked and disagreed, that we will be 'old timers' Whatever we say, will be disregarded and fought with.

Wake up, old timers! The Expert Editing challenges are the only ones that still keep the best talent here!

What she does not realize is that, there is more in photography than just sticking pieces together or using stock backgrounds etc etc to make a story.

So Rock on us old ones
 03/01/2013 12:19:44 AM · #30
Ummm...I am an old timer and I just managed to put some pretty pieces together to make an image and I got a ribbon. Hmm...I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.

Do I think that sticking pieces together is the only way for the future? NO

You cannot make something good out of something bad. So you still need to learn your technicals in photography.

All of these rulesets are important for photography to continue on this site.

Message edited by author 2013-03-01 00:21:58.
 03/01/2013 12:22:00 AM · #31
Originally posted by MNet:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Because DPC *tends* to reward surface perfection, i.e. very graphic images with a high gloss, and we have some expert editors in here that have the skill-set and are willing to invest the time required to attain that sort of perfection.

I think this is quite insulting to gyaban and samanthaT and others who put an incredible amount of intelligence, creativity, skill and hard work into their challenge entries. I think this thread is about jealousy rather than anything of substance. This is typical DPC with the same people stating the same opinions. Sad, and the main reason why DPC is in such decline. Wake up, old timers! The Expert Editing challenges are the only ones that still keep the best talent here!


Let's not forget one of the unsung masters of the expert rule set.

. .

No gloss. No 8+. Loads of thought and time. You missed Bear's point.

Message edited by author 2013-03-01 00:22:20.
 03/01/2013 12:22:54 AM · #32
Originally posted by Judi:
Ummm...I am an old timer and I just managed to put some pretty pieces together to make an image and I got a ribbon. Hmm...I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.

Do I think that sticking pieces together is the only way for the future? NO

You cannot make something good out of something bad. So you still need to learn your technicals in photography.

All of these rulesets are important for photography to continue on this site.


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Congrats! It's a great image. Of course, the photography that preceded it was clearly of a superior nature in and of itself.
 03/01/2013 12:25:34 AM · #33
Urhuhhhh Ms Judi fabulous picture it was too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mnet just try to get along with everyone, we all respect each others styles, whether we are old new, decrepit or road kill. Watch out for some stunning minimal challenge entries, they are just as worthy as expert challenges, if not more
 03/01/2013 12:54:02 AM · #34
Point
 03/01/2013 11:43:13 AM · #35
You can disagree with me all you want, I won't take it personally :-)

The question was why do expert challenges get higher scores, not whether expert editing is "photography". Wow factor pictures, glossy pictures, eye candy pictures, whatever you want to call them, almost ALWAYS take top honors, no matter what the editing set. So that is not what is different about expert challenges. For that reason, to me the difference is due to the excellent concepts and editing skills required in expert editing images (with all due acknowledgement of those non-expert editing images that occasionally finish at the top). I stand by my original statement, although I will clarify that I didn't mean it is a conscious thought process (i.e. oh wow, look how difficult this editing is).

Cory, I adore you back, in spite of that skin problem you have :-)
 03/01/2013 11:58:31 AM · #36
don't know that all the voters know about the level of work that goes into these images - you really have to do it to know it, and everyone is a bit different i suppose, so i won't make a guess on that bit.

I think expert allows easier transition into "fantastic" and "unreal" things and i think these brilliant bits of imagination may draw more awe from the audience in general. I for one don't always think in terms of "reality".

Sometimes an idea in my mind is a combination of different elements in life that don't necessarily makes sense in reality, but convey the message better than words, or as reality allows. Putting such an idea in image form allows for a more seamless form of communication between the artist's imagination and the viewer's.

That's the way i see it anyways. Maybe because of general abuse of GFX in our society, some people are disillusioned, and maybe that idea resonates with me sometimes, but if its a well done piece, it'll separate it self from the factory assembled imitations. Can't speak for many more than myself though.

Devinder

edit: thinking about this, you can't play down the role of language after all. "feeling small" "unbreakable" "fiery" "bottled emotions" are all powerful triggers to some really cool ideas that can't always be depicted irl.

Message edited by author 2013-03-01 13:36:31.
 03/01/2013 12:01:08 PM · #37
I don't think it's really any of this. Expert Editing has a threshold in terms of perceived quality relating to seamless execution of (normally) composite work.

The people who ribbon here are soooo much more competent at getting that look than others who enter that voters will ensure there is a differential between their work and the others. Score the challenge and see some dodgy photoshopping and then come across a Gyaban or a SamanthaT and it's clear that for (the seamless composite) criterion, they are more than 1,2 or 3 marks clear. Its this perceived differential that pushes them up the scoring grid and thus causes a higher average score than in other challenges. If everybody else upped their game/skills (in terms of seamless compositing) then we would see the ribboning scores begin to come down to be in line with what we see for the other rule sets.

Message edited by author 2013-03-01 12:03:00.
 03/01/2013 12:43:39 PM · #38
Why do expert challenges get higher scores?

I think it's just simply because we are seeing thing we've never seen before. No matter how nice an image is of a cat, flower, tree etc. is we have seen it many times before. But did you ever see a cat hanging from a tree breathing fire onto a flower?
It's pleasing to the brain to see new and different things.
I believe this equates into higher scores.

03/01/2013 12:44:07 PM · #39
I agree with bear's assessment in the outset. Pretty pictures make people go "oOOoOOo" and vote high. with expert editing, there are people here who are able to take multple images, combine them in a way that is not otherwise possible and present it to us in a short timeframe. That is talent, hard work and dedication. Their scores typically reflect that.

That said, it's POSSIBLE to get scores like this without it, but you have to have the PERFECT image to do so, which (quite frankly) is damned near impossible to find/set-up/capture under advanced rulesets, or in our universe with physics being what they are period.

So yes, expert editing allows people to see things they generally cannot see in real life and as such are classified by some as "not photographs" and by others as "digital art", and many times by voters here as "ribbon winners with really high marks".

So Margaret, poke and prod to rile people up all you want. Some will always take the bait and you can have some banter. Just don't put words in other peoples mouths.

Message edited by author 2013-03-01 12:45:46.
 03/01/2013 12:55:00 PM · #40
Originally posted by Paul:
I don't think it's really any of this. Expert Editing has a threshold in terms of perceived quality relating to seamless execution of (normally) composite work.

The people who ribbon here are soooo much more competent at getting that look than others who enter that voters will ensure there is a differential between their work and the others. Score the challenge and see some dodgy photoshopping and then come across a Gyaban or a SamanthaT and it's clear that for (the seamless composite) criterion, they are more than 1,2 or 3 marks clear. Its this perceived differential that pushes them up the scoring grid and thus causes a higher average score than in other challenges. If everybody else upped their game/skills (in terms of seamless compositing) then we would see the ribboning scores begin to come down to be in line with what we see for the other rule sets.


Ahhh! I do think this does play a role as well, very good call Paul
 03/01/2013 01:51:15 PM · #41
Originally posted by Paul:

Its this perceived differential that pushes them up the scoring grid and thus causes a higher average score than in other challenges. If everybody else upped their game/skills (in terms of seamless compositing) then we would see the ribboning scores begin to come down to be in line with what we see for the other rule sets.


you saw this occur in the asymmetrical challenge.

everyone was voting , eh, flipped image, meh, flipped image, eh, meh, eh. BOOM Judys horse shot. it was just lightyears ahead of the rest in style and execution and the benchmark had been established and non one else could touch it.

Message edited by author 2013-03-01 13:51:35.
 03/01/2013 02:55:20 PM · #42
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by Paul:

Its this perceived differential that pushes them up the scoring grid and thus causes a higher average score than in other challenges. If everybody else upped their game/skills (in terms of seamless compositing) then we would see the ribboning scores begin to come down to be in line with what we see for the other rule sets.


you saw this occur in the asymmetrical challenge.

everyone was voting , eh, flipped image, meh, flipped image, eh, meh, eh. BOOM Judys horse shot. it was just lightyears ahead of the rest in style and execution and the benchmark had been established and non one else could touch it.

Absolutely. This goes hand in hand with my earlier-stated position: She took those skills, and that work ethic, and an exceptional sense of composition and grace and turned them into a finished product that was miles beyond the competition.
 03/01/2013 03:00:38 PM · #43
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by Paul:

Its this perceived differential that pushes them up the scoring grid and thus causes a higher average score than in other challenges. If everybody else upped their game/skills (in terms of seamless compositing) then we would see the ribboning scores begin to come down to be in line with what we see for the other rule sets.


you saw this occur in the asymmetrical challenge.

everyone was voting , eh, flipped image, meh, flipped image, eh, meh, eh. BOOM Judys horse shot. it was just lightyears ahead of the rest in style and execution and the benchmark had been established and non one else could touch it.

Absolutely. This goes hand in hand with my earlier-stated position: She took those skills, and that work ethic, and an exceptional sense of composition and grace and turned them into a finished product that was miles beyond the competition.

Dan Ariely really covers this idea well.. It's towards the end of the video.. Someone else posted this the other day and I found it fascinating.

Message edited by author 2013-03-01 15:01:51.
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