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12/19/2012 02:42:54 PM · #651 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
I'm arriving late to this discussion, so forgive me if I'm repeating a question that has already been discussed. But I'd like to know from those who support gun rights why an automatic and semi-automatic weapons ban is objectionable. Can you not defend yourself, or target practice, or hunt with a gun/rifle that shoots only three or four bullets at a time? |
Automatics are banned except for the select few that have big tim liscenses... Sometimes you need more than one shot...I would not dream of going hunting without a semi-automatic. I am a decent shot but sometimes I miss. Also if you have a home invasion where you have multiple people coming after you it pays to have a semi |
You didn't answer any of my questions in the negative. Where I live, I don't know anyone who uses a semi-automatic weapon to hunt, and everyone here hunts. So I know that semi-automatic weapons are not necessary for hunting. If you need another shot, you just eject the shell and fire again. Likewise for self-defense purposes. So your weapon of choice may be taken away from you, but you will still have access to firearms, if I'm correctly interpreting the legislation that's now being considered in Congress. Is that the "liberty" that you're worried will be taken away? And how does that liberty stack up against the right to live free from terror, and the right to stay alive, period? |
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12/19/2012 02:43:02 PM · #652 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by nygold:
How does one go about getting the guns off the bad guys?
It's easy to say take away the guns but how can it be done?
If a law is passed that says NO MORE GUNS, you can't expect the average Joe to turn his gun in until he's assured that all the bad guys already turned thiers in. |
//www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/12/camden_county_gun_buyback_is_m.html |
I said "Bad guys".
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12/19/2012 02:44:31 PM · #653 |
Originally posted by Venser:
And are you really saying that 1 in every 35000 isn't a terrible number? Are you for real? |
thats 2 people at every NFL football game, or one at every baseball or hockey or baskeball game. Looks a little different now, huh? |
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12/19/2012 02:45:06 PM · #654 |
Originally posted by nygold:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by nygold:
How does one go about getting the guns off the bad guys?
It's easy to say take away the guns but how can it be done?
If a law is passed that says NO MORE GUNS, you can't expect the average Joe to turn his gun in until he's assured that all the bad guys already turned thiers in. |
//www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/12/camden_county_gun_buyback_is_m.html |
I said "Bad guys". |
give them lots of money. |
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12/19/2012 02:45:36 PM · #655 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by nygold:
How does one go about getting the guns off the bad guys?
It's easy to say take away the guns but how can it be done?
If a law is passed that says NO MORE GUNS, you can't expect the average Joe to turn his gun in until he's assured that all the bad guys already turned thiers in. |
IF that were on the table (it isn't), you'd have a buyback program, make it so anyone caught with a gun faces steep punishment and offer rewards for tips. Basically what they did in Rio. |
In N.Y. they already have steep pumishment for having and illegal gun.
If the bad guys cared about punishment they wouldn't be bad guys.
Message edited by author 2012-12-19 14:49:05. |
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12/19/2012 02:48:45 PM · #656 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by nygold:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by nygold:
How does one go about getting the guns off the bad guys?
It's easy to say take away the guns but how can it be done?
If a law is passed that says NO MORE GUNS, you can't expect the average Joe to turn his gun in until he's assured that all the bad guys already turned thiers in. |
//www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/12/camden_county_gun_buyback_is_m.html |
I said "Bad guys". |
give them lots of money. |
We're talking about bank robbers and drug dealers and you think a few hundred bucks is going to lure these guys from the dark side? |
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12/19/2012 02:48:47 PM · #657 |
Oh for crying out loud....why does everyone need to argue over the dumbest of things?
Tool....weapon....who the hell cares what its called. The end result is the same.
Bring the discussion back to the points that matter.
ETA: Just thought about it for a second more, there is a little use in the discussion of a tool or weapon. This was obviously my fault for calling that in the first place. I should have said device, instrument, or even object. I was trying to remove the particular connotation to lead a more open discussion on gun control.
Originally posted by Spork99:
Tool n. anything used as a means of accomplishing a task or purpose |
Message edited by author 2012-12-19 14:53:03. |
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12/19/2012 02:49:26 PM · #658 |
Originally posted by nygold:
In N.Y. they already have steep pumishment for having and illegal gun. |
stop selling bullets?
Message edited by author 2012-12-19 14:49:45. |
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12/19/2012 02:50:29 PM · #659 |
Originally posted by nygold:
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by nygold:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by nygold:
How does one go about getting the guns off the bad guys?
It's easy to say take away the guns but how can it be done?
If a law is passed that says NO MORE GUNS, you can't expect the average Joe to turn his gun in until he's assured that all the bad guys already turned thiers in. |
//www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/12/camden_county_gun_buyback_is_m.html |
I said "Bad guys". |
give them lots of money. |
We're talking about bank robbers and drug dealers and you think a few hundred bucks is going to lure these guys from the dark side? |
they use them for a few hundreds bucks. |
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12/19/2012 02:53:51 PM · #660 |
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
That was just one of many exaples...How about wild boars. |
Now you're trolling. Quit being an ass monkey.
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
ok in the US there were 8,583 firearm murders
current population of US is 311,591,917
that means that for 36303 people there is 1 murder... |
In Japan for 2006, the number was 1 murder in 63,883,997 people; orders of magnitude apart. Why shouldn't the US strive for those kinds of statistics instead?
And are you really saying that 1 in every 35000 isn't a terrible number? Are you for real? |
I fought for this country and would do it again in a heartbeat...do you why I would do such a thing. To protect my right as a US citizen including the right to buy firearms...And I'll be damned if I am going to sit idly by and let that happen.
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12/19/2012 02:56:48 PM · #661 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by Spork99:
There are so many more ways one can fail. There's only 1 shot, if you miss with that, you die. If the assailant is enraged or on drugs, the darts may make contact and not slow him down. If they are wearing a heavy coat, the darts may stick in that and have no effect. |
kind of like the guns in existence when the 2nd amendment was passed?
the weapons technology has surpassed what the amendment may have intended for it to cover. |
See my earlier post ... at least one Supreme Court Justice apparently agrees with this interpretation. |
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12/19/2012 03:00:06 PM · #662 |
What do we protect our president with?
Is he more important than your family?
Just something to think about. |
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12/19/2012 03:01:44 PM · #663 |
Originally posted by nygold:
Originally posted by scalvert:
IF that were on the table (it isn't), you'd have a buyback program, make it so anyone caught with a gun faces steep punishment and offer rewards for tips. Basically what they did in Rio. |
In N.Y. they already have steep pumishment for having and illegal gun. |
Sure, but that's sort of like driving without a licenseĂ¢€“ NOT the scenario you were asking about. If ALL guns were illegal, then the likelihood of getting caught or reported goes way up, just like it would if all driving were illegal: if you see a car, you know it's illegal. |
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12/19/2012 03:04:07 PM · #664 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Your tactics for infiltration and combat differ from hunting, where there are many reasons you can and should kill with a single round. The tactics of a sniper are more similar to the hunter today, where one ought not botch individual shots. Even skeet/trap shooting or pheasant/quail hunting you deserve to get laughed at if you bring a combat shotgun. Let's be realistic here. |
Well again I live in Louisiana and we have aligators...If you get one of those after you...you had better have more than one shot |
lol. And in Colorado, we have moose, which are just as large and faster over distance, and are still brought down with single (bow) shots, as well as being equally unpredictable and prone to hiding in willow thickets so they're a constant danger even if you aren't hunting them. Come on. I whole-heartedly support hunting and the means required to do so. It's incredibly important to the economy here and a HUGE source of revenue to preserve public lands and encourage tourism. But beyond that, the only hunters that don't worry me when I'm in the backcountry during hunting season are bow hunters, because ethically they don't pull the same BS, they always confirm targets, they are understanding of other users, and they account for far fewer mishaps. |
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12/19/2012 03:06:34 PM · #665 |
Originally posted by nygold:
What do we protect our president with?
Is he more important than your family?
Just something to think about. |
Duly noted... neither the president nor congress members carry guns, and therefore require security details until they get past metal detectors to a place where guns aren't allowed. You can't put metal detectors and bodyguards around kindergartens with the excuse of protecting a FREEDOM. |
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12/19/2012 03:09:06 PM · #666 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
I fought for this country and would do it again in a heartbeat...do you why I would do such a thing. To protect my right as a US citizen including the right to buy firearms...And I'll be damned if I am going to sit idly by and let that happen. |
I've always been a bit confused about how it is necessary to go to war and kill people in Iraq and Afganistan in order to protect the rights of U.S citizens to buy firearms. Was Al Qaeda secretly plotting to come to America in order to enforce stricter gun control or something? Of course, i'm confused about why we went to war in Iraq full stop. Something about weapons of mass destruction if i remember correctly. |
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12/19/2012 03:10:44 PM · #667 |
Originally posted by rooum:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
I fought for this country and would do it again in a heartbeat...do you why I would do such a thing. To protect my right as a US citizen including the right to buy firearms...And I'll be damned if I am going to sit idly by and let that happen. |
I've always been a bit confused about how it is necessary to go to war and kill people in Iraq and Afganistan in order to protect the rights of U.S citizens to buy firearms. Was Al Qaeda secretly plotting to come to America in order to enforce stricter gun control or something? |
ROFL! |
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12/19/2012 03:11:29 PM · #668 |
Originally posted by nygold:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by nygold:
How does one go about getting the guns off the bad guys?
It's easy to say take away the guns but how can it be done?
If a law is passed that says NO MORE GUNS, you can't expect the average Joe to turn his gun in until he's assured that all the bad guys already turned thiers in. |
//www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/12/camden_county_gun_buyback_is_m.html |
I said "Bad guys". |
Trust me, they are the bad guys. That's why there were no questions asked. Maybe they each have 10 more at home, but over 1000 guns off the streets of Camden in one weekend. I'd call it successful. |
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12/19/2012 03:12:20 PM · #669 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
That was just one of many exaples...How about wild boars. |
Now you're trolling. Quit being an ass monkey.
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
ok in the US there were 8,583 firearm murders
current population of US is 311,591,917
that means that for 36303 people there is 1 murder... |
In Japan for 2006, the number was 1 murder in 63,883,997 people; orders of magnitude apart. Why shouldn't the US strive for those kinds of statistics instead?
And are you really saying that 1 in every 35000 isn't a terrible number? Are you for real? |
I fought for this country and would do it again in a heartbeat...do you why I would do such a thing. To protect my right as a US citizen including the right to buy firearms...And I'll be damned if I am going to sit idly by and let that happen. |
There are a lot of interesting things in the American Constitution, but the second Amendment IMHO looks ridiculous after 221 years... what does it mean the right of the people to keep and bear Arms? It seems like something belonging to Middle Ages. |
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12/19/2012 03:13:52 PM · #670 |
The sad thing, to me, is that we always use tragedies like this to push our agendas.
I have little doubt we will soon lose another small portion of our remaining freedoms.,
Patriot Act all over again.
For the control advocates, congrats - I have little doubt this tragedy was a victory for you.
For the gun rights advocates, just shut up - you've already lost. |
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12/19/2012 03:14:32 PM · #671 |
Originally posted by rooum:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
I fought for this country and would do it again in a heartbeat...do you why I would do such a thing. To protect my right as a US citizen including the right to buy firearms...And I'll be damned if I am going to sit idly by and let that happen. |
I've always been a bit confused about how it is necessary to go to war and kill people in Iraq and Afganistan in order to protect the rights of U.S citizens to buy firearms. Was Al Qaeda secretly plotting to come to America in order to enforce stricter gun control or something? Of course, i'm confused about why we went to war in Iraq full stop. Something about weapons of mass destruction if i remember correctly. |
No Al Quida was/is attempting to completely bring down the US....All of our rights from freedom of speech to women's rights were in jeapardy.
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12/19/2012 03:15:26 PM · #672 |
This is an absolute pointless statistic. I'm going to try to explain to you and all others how and why that is pointless.
Forget the big numbers. Lets work with something a little more understandable. I'll choose....oh, I don't know....20 for example. That just comes to mind for some reason.
So, 20 people killed. What does that mean?
Well, for one, there is no fixing death for those people. Its pretty final. Its not like a broken arm that could mend or anything.
But, the death of 20 only affects those 20 people....right?
Hell no. The impact of ONE murder affects a far greater number of people. In the case of Sandy Hook, the parents are affected, the family is affected, siblings are affects, and yes, each any every one of those kids who ran out of the classroom tripping over their dead friend is affected. Other posts I've seen below also implicate community implications.
So, your "statistic" is a mere dastardly attempt at dumbing down a far greater problem.
Let me share a very sad story for all those who don't realize that a single death has reaching impacts. This is a story about a mother of 3 who was diagnosed with cancer. Her kids were young, but old enough to understand. Unfortunately, the mother died. Two years later, distraught over the loss of his wife, the father shot himself at the grave of his wife. Now, those poor kids in the course of 2 years lost two parents and now live with their uncle. The mother's death was not caused by a gun, but the impact of that reached out hard and heavy.
Do you honestly believe that 8583 firearm murders is so insignificant? For the sake of our country and society, I sure hope not.
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
That was just one of many exaples...How about wild boars.
ok in the US there were 8,583 firearm murders
current population of US is 311,591,917
that means that for 36303 people there is 1 murder... |
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12/19/2012 03:20:54 PM · #673 |
Originally posted by Alexkc:
There are a lot of interesting things in the American Constitution, but the second Amendment IMHO looks ridiculous after 221 years... what does it mean the right of the people to keep and bear Arms? It seems like something belonging to Middle Ages. |
The joke here is this - it used to mean that the people were to be in possession of sufficient weaponry to be able to check a government gone bad.
The fact is, we've lost that battle a LONG time ago. Now guns are just toys and a semi-feasible self-defense tool.
I really hope all of this plan works out well - but I grew up around a large group of folks who value your cash far more than the law or your life, I don't believe they will play nice - although I suppose only time will tell.
By all means, you poor fools, ban all the guns, and pay the price of that which you desire. (be careful what you wish for) |
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12/19/2012 03:32:03 PM · #674 |
Originally posted by Cory:
By all means, you poor fools, ban all the guns, and pay the price of that which you desire. (be careful what you wish for) |
Again, nobody is suggesting that... even though the price of NOT doing so is like experiencing 9/11 three times a year. |
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12/19/2012 03:35:49 PM · #675 |
Originally posted by Cory:
By all means, you poor fools, ban all the guns, and pay the price of that which you desire. (be careful what you wish for) |
Last I looked, no one was proposing to "ban all the guns."
ETA: Scalvert beat me to it. :-)
Message edited by author 2012-12-19 15:36:28. |
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