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12/09/2012 11:23:51 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by dtremain:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by dtremain:
Does this mean no one can do what is right, helpful, and good? Not at all. It does mean that our first instinct is to do what is best for ourselves and damn the consequences for everyone else. We love to point out the exceptions to this as representative of typical goodness. Don't know about you, but if I am honest with myself, they are more often exceptions rather than the rule. |
I can agree with your premise, with the exception of the part in bold.
What I remember most from my family background is that from the onset I was told that the family unit is the most important factor to be considered, and not the individual in it.
As a young man I worked in the mines and on paydays I would stop at the credit union and the teller would put my pay, (with the exception of $2.00) in a small envelop, seal it and give it back to me. At dinner time, I would pass that envelope to my father, as my contribution to the family... and we all did that.
In the environment that I grew up in, you were responsible not only for yourself, but those around you, and that was something that seemed to prevail in the community. Maybe I was luckier than most in that I lived in a small community that shared this altruistic belief.
I can also assure you that my parents would not have been pleased with me had I failed to intervene whenever someone considered doing something detrimental to the well being of others.
Ray |
Wow! That sounds like a tough but good way to be brought up. And I bet you saw it work time and time again. In a mining community, everyone's life depends on NO ONE doing something that endangers others.
I don't believe that is a common experience growing up in America. Our society has evolved into isolationism - many of us don't even know our neighbors' names, let alone feel any responsibility for them. I believe we are a poorer society (and, for that matter, poorer individuals) because of it.
A question, though - was it easy to keep everyone focused on working together as a community? Or was it a constant struggle? Perhaps that isn't a fair question - depending on your age during that time of your life. My guess would be that it was very tough. Folks quit and left town, others (for a whole host of reasons) would temporarily forget community to satisfy themselves.
Community, historically, lasts about three generations, with lesser and lesser commitment in each succeeding generation. |
You know, I can say, with near certainty, that city life causes this.
I go home, to the country, and I feel altruistic towards people, and want to shake people's hands and look them in the eye.
Here in Miami? *shrug* I just pushed a parked car 1/2 a car length so I could have a parking spot, and wasn't hardly able to muster a smile and eye-contact with the booth operator on the causeway bridge. People here are just in my way, and I have no interest in meeting, helping, or otherwise interacting with 99.99% of them.
Strange how different my attitude is towards people in each place, but it's really not even something I think about, it's just super-natural and is what "feels right" in each place.
SOO can't wait to move home. ;) |
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12/10/2012 07:51:56 AM · #77 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
The neighbor thing was never so apparent to me as it was one day a couple winters ago. The sky had dumped another 14" or so on the ground, and I left early for church figuring I'd help shovel. Well, it was so bad in town that services were cancelled. So I started to shovel. Nobody else from the congregation was there. I shoveled for about three hours.
Every......single.....person......who.....walked......by.......smiled.......and.....said.....hello. |
Originally posted by JH:
Okay, I need to know - Is this a good thing or a bad thing? i.e. are you making the point that they walked by without helping, or that they smiled at you shovelling the snow? |
My point was that though my previous church didn't know their neighbors, this church, in the 'hood, elicited a smile and a hello simply because people knew of the church.
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12/10/2012 08:23:32 AM · #78 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Strange how different my attitude is towards people in each place, but it's really not even something I think about, it's just super-natural and is what "feels right" in each place. |
I dunno......the only people I don't much like are @$$holes, and I find them everywhere, transcending all boundaries of race creed socio-economic status.....
But I meet good and decent people nearly everywhere I go as well. So I try not to make any kind of decision as what kind of an impression I have of another 'til I get to know them on a fairly personal basis. To me, that just makes sense. I really don't much care how they got to where they are in their life at the point of meeting me.......that's really none of my business.
But I'm always open and hopeful when I do meet someone new, and generally assume them to be a good and decent person. I have faith that people are inherently good.
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12/10/2012 12:30:07 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
But I'm always open and hopeful when I do meet someone new, and generally assume them to be a good and decent person. I have faith that people are inherently good. |
That faith could get you killed in some of the neighborhoods near where Cory lives right now... |
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12/10/2012 12:35:32 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by Cory:
Strange how different my attitude is towards people in each place, but it's really not even something I think about, it's just super-natural and is what "feels right" in each place. |
I dunno......the only people I don't much like are @$$holes, and I find them everywhere, transcending all boundaries of race creed socio-economic status.....
But I meet good and decent people nearly everywhere I go as well. So I try not to make any kind of decision as what kind of an impression I have of another 'til I get to know them on a fairly personal basis. To me, that just makes sense. I really don't much care how they got to where they are in their life at the point of meeting me.......that's really none of my business.
But I'm always open and hopeful when I do meet someone new, and generally assume them to be a good and decent person. I have faith that people are inherently good. |
Which is pretty much exactly how I feel when I'm in the country, or in smaller towns. I like to get to know people, and see who they are, what they're about.
Here in the city? If you take even an extremely modest 5 seconds to evaluate everyone you meet, you'll never actually have time to do anything. Besides, saying hello to someone on the street who you don't know is usually greeted with a look like you just pulled a gun on them.
Essentially, that was my whole point - the dynamic is wildly different in each place.
Message edited by author 2012-12-10 12:35:48. |
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12/10/2012 01:00:37 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
But I'm always open and hopeful when I do meet someone new, and generally assume them to be a good and decent person. I have faith that people are inherently good. |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
That faith could get you killed in some of the neighborhoods near where Cory lives right now... |
That was kind of my point when I was talking about the church I spent time at in the city. This is right smack in the middle of what's considered a rough neighborhood. Yet this church doesn't get vandalized & robbed, and the people directly around the church are definitely at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder. There are shelters & halfway houses, bars & mini-marts with bars on the windows, and there's virtually always a cruiser within screaming distance.
Now I wouldn't walk up to a jittery black guy in a hoodie, and say "'Sup, Homes!", but I will return a greeting. You also reap what you sow, and if you're skulking around nervously someplace you don't belong, then yeah......things could get unpleasant.
But I also can't walk into any courthouse or Capitol building in the country without subjecting myself to a metal detector and possible search, now can I?
I've also been able to go places out in the boonies where shotguns and half-wild dogs are the rule rather than the exception as well because I generally know how to approach a situation.
I'm sorry, but I have just found it relatively simple to go through life assuming the best of whomever I'm trying to relate to, communicate with, or simply encounter.
If that doesn't match your experiences, what does that say?
Message edited by author 2012-12-10 13:17:23.
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12/10/2012 01:05:39 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
I've also been able to go places out in the boonies where shotguns and half-wild dogs are the exception rather than the rule as well because I generally know how to approach a situation. |
Hmmm ... I think the only time I've been confronted by someone with a shotgun was in a nice, upscale East Bay suburb ... :-( |
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12/10/2012 01:18:10 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
I've also been able to go places out in the boonies where shotguns and half-wild dogs are the exception rather than the rule as well because I generally know how to approach a situation. |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
... I think the only time I've been confronted by someone with a shotgun was in a nice, upscale East Bay suburb ... :-( |
I see now I wrote that backwards....LOL!!! Fixed above....
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12/10/2012 01:52:48 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
But I'm always open and hopeful when I do meet someone new, and generally assume them to be a good and decent person. I have faith that people are inherently good. |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
That faith could get you killed in some of the neighborhoods near where Cory lives right now... |
Now I wouldn't walk up to a jittery black guy in a hoodie, and say "'Sup, Homes!", but I will return a greeting. You also reap what you sow, and if you're skulking around nervously someplace you don't belong, then yeah......things could get unpleasant.
....
I've also been able to go places out in the boonies where shotguns and half-wild dogs are the rule rather than the exception as well because I generally know how to approach a situation.
.. |
The difference between backwoods and the back alleyways is that just making eye-contact is considered an act of aggression by quite a few people who've been to prison, especially those in the hood. Sad, but true. Just something as simple as LOOKING at someone can earn you attention that you definitely do not want.
In the end, taking the time to evaluate each person is just massively useless, as you'd waste all day doing it. You've gotta just make fast calls and roll with them in almost all cases - which usually amounts to minimizing contact and evaluating threats.
Sounds extreme right? LOL, it kinda is, but the thing is that 97% of the time when someone approaches me in the city, it's to ask for something, usually a handout - but sometimes they're looking to sell something, or etc... 1-2% of the time the person approaching doesn't make contact, and looks kinda shady - my only guess is that these are folks who were sizing me up and decided I was a poor target. That leave 1-2% of people who are actually worth taking some time to evaluate, but since I simply don't have time to sort through the other 98 or 99 people, I just generally try to avoid the whole thing.
Yep. Moving at the end of January, and I honestly can't wait. Not to say that that Miami isn't awesome, and to be fair, the Miami Beach is somewhat friendlier than the other areas of the city, although I suspect it's largely due to the forces of being in a destination area for tourists, since all of that changes once you get something like 10 blocks from my house in any direction.
Message edited by author 2012-12-10 14:01:19. |
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12/10/2012 02:31:39 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
But I'm always open and hopeful when I do meet someone new, and generally assume them to be a good and decent person. I have faith that people are inherently good. |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
That faith could get you killed in some of the neighborhoods near where Cory lives right now... |
Now I wouldn't walk up to a jittery black guy in a hoodie, and say "'Sup, Homes!", but I will return a greeting. You also reap what you sow, and if you're skulking around nervously someplace you don't belong, then yeah......things could get unpleasant.
....
I've also been able to go places out in the boonies where shotguns and half-wild dogs are the rule rather than the exception as well because I generally know how to approach a situation.
.. |
The difference between backwoods and the back alleyways is that just making eye-contact is considered an act of aggression by quite a few people who've been to prison, especially those in the hood. Sad, but true. Just something as simple as LOOKING at someone can earn you attention that you definitely do not want.
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And actively avoiding their gaze or having fear in your eyes when you do make eye contact, marks you as an 'easy' target. It really is a case of a predator looking for easy prey. |
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12/10/2012 02:55:47 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by Cory:
The difference between backwoods and the back alleyways is that just making eye-contact is considered an act of aggression by quite a few people who've been to prison, especially those in the hood. Sad, but true. Just something as simple as LOOKING at someone can earn you attention that you definitely do not want. |
Well......I'm not going to go 'round and 'round with this. There are places within ten minutes from this desk where I sit that merely venturing into someone's driveway will have you explaining yourself to the business end of a 12 gauge.
And the same goes for where my in city the church is.......yeah, SOME people assume the worst, and will confront you, but I've walked away from a number of situations where I may not have because of something inherently accepting in the way that the person viewed our interaction. I don't carry a gun, and I'm not a tough guy.
I'm just relating my observations. Perhaps I live a charmed existence......go with that.....8~)
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12/10/2012 03:02:03 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
I'm just relating my observations. Perhaps I live a charmed existence......go with that.....8~) |
Plus, you're REALLY big, intimidatingly so; that helps :-) |
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