If it happened to them... it can happen to anyone.

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

11/05/2012 08:26:21 PM · #326

Originally posted by yanko:

So Jason, was your heterosexuality a choice? If you don't believe it was a choice then what do you attribute the environmental trigger being in your situation?

Oh, SNAP!!!

LOL!!!

smardaz

11/05/2012 09:23:19 PM · #327

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by yanko:
So Jason, was your heterosexuality a choice? If you don't believe it was a choice then what do you attribute the environmental trigger being in your situation?

Oh, SNAP!!!

LOL!!!

Snap? ummm it wasn't me that made the comment, it was klkitchens

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

11/05/2012 09:33:04 PM · #328

Originally posted by smardaz:

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by yanko:
So Jason, was your heterosexuality a choice? If you don't believe it was a choice then what do you attribute the environmental trigger being in your situation?

Oh, SNAP!!!

LOL!!!

Snap? ummm it wasn't me that made the comment, it was klkitchens

smardaz

11/05/2012 09:35:07 PM · #329

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by smardaz:

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by yanko:
So Jason, was your heterosexuality a choice? If you don't believe it was a choice then what do you attribute the environmental trigger being in your situation?

Oh, SNAP!!!

LOL!!!

Snap? ummm it wasn't me that made the comment, it was klkitchens

:)

oh hehe my bad, should have known i'm not famous enough on here to be called out by my real name.....

Message edited by author 2012-11-05 21:35:42.

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

11/05/2012 09:40:58 PM · #330

Originally posted by smardaz:

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by smardaz:

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by yanko:
So Jason, was your heterosexuality a choice? If you don't believe it was a choice then what do you attribute the environmental trigger being in your situation?

Oh, SNAP!!!

LOL!!!

Snap? ummm it wasn't me that made the comment, it was klkitchens

:)

oh hehe my bad, should have known i'm not ~~famous~~ notorious enough on here to be called out by my real name.....

There, I fixed it.

Perhaps not, but I'd say you're darn close. Strangely everyone seems to know my first name around here.

11/06/2012 12:10:57 AM · #331

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Come on guys, use some brains. Heterosexuality is the default course. This makes plain evolutionary sense. A species wouldn't make it too far otherwise.

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

11/06/2012 12:21:59 AM · #332

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

I don't necessarily agree. I feel that most thinking people more follow the line of reasoning that there has to be the predisposition in order for the trait to become evident and encompassing.

I am quoting from twin studies which are our best, easiest manner to determine the nature/nurture aspect of traits. The concordence of homosexuality in identical twins is in the neighborhood of 75%. If it was purely genetic it would be nearly 100% and if it wasn't genetic at all it would be the same as fraternal twins (which, IIRC, is in the 25% range).

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Okay......playing devil's advocate here.....growing up in an environment of gentility with an emphasis on class structure and breeding, what the heck kind of trigger do you suppose was available to me to have chosen a career in British automobile restoration?

I have no idea, but we're making the assumption that being mechanically inclined or liking British automobiles is a product of genetic coding or predisposition. Nobody that I know of has looked at that question.

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

I can't say as I've *EVER* heard someone say that. And I'd like to think I more exposure to the gay community than the average straight guy.

LOL. I was wrong when I said it was Nixon's daughter, but I got the name right. :) Cynthia Nixon says she is gay by choice.

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

The details of homosexuality and lesbianism may be completely different. Just an academic point.

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Oh, DO elaborate! Gender makes a difference?

It does appear so. Just do some research on the "plasticity of female sexuality". That should get you where you need to go.

Message edited by author 2012-11-06 00:22:49.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

11/06/2012 12:26:10 AM · #333

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Come on guys, use some brains. Heterosexuality is the default course. This makes plain evolutionary sense. A species wouldn't make it too far otherwise.

Well, to the extent that sexual orientation has a genetic component, the argument DOES cut both ways. In other words, you can be disposed to heterosexuality but choose to remain celibate. There are probably those who are disposed towards asexuality as well, and certainly those who are disposed to homosexuality. We all have choices to make, within whatever context we find ourselves. So just because heterosexuality is the "default mode" doesn't mean it's the only mode.

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

11/06/2012 01:34:58 AM · #334

I don't disagree Robert. I think Richard was saying that if we speculate a gay predisposition with a trigger then was is the correlary with heterosexuality? What is the trigger? But I think we don't need a mirror process. It's the default and needs no trigger. Evolution would for sure want this to be the state of affairs.

Mike

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

11/06/2012 07:44:42 AM · #335

part of the problem is that we as humans, unlike other animals, are able suppress our instinctual tendencies.

Homosexuality IS a choice, you choose to suppress the urge or not. However whether you have the urge itself inst a choice.

Message edited by author 2012-11-06 07:45:17.

smardaz

11/06/2012 09:14:42 AM · #336

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Oh, SNAP!!!

LOL!!!

ironically when a guy says "oh snap".....it sounds kinda gay

Message edited by author 2012-11-06 09:14:59.

Strikeslip

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

11/06/2012 09:44:17 AM · #337

Originally posted by yanko:

So Jason, was your heterosexuality a choice? If you don't believe it was a choice then what do you attribute the environmental trigger being in your situation?

Marie Osmond, Sally Kellerman (Hotlips Hoolihan on MASH), and soap-on-a-roap in the shower.

blindjustice

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

11/06/2012 11:37:03 AM · #338

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

The truth is, from a religious perspective- you have to make it a choice, or else you can't attach the label of sin to it, no? or at least it makes it far easier to condemn a thing that is chosen.

Of course there are both biological and social/cultural triggers. We can choose as a society to welcome in "the different," or stone them, for many reasons.

11/06/2012 12:54:21 PM · #339

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I'm guessing I wasn't totally clear....the car thing was in regards to where I went despite the negative aspect of my environment.......it's the aptitude thing that I know is, and can be tested.

I know people such as myself who can tell if an engine's running right from four blocks away in a driving rainstorm......and others who can't unscrew four or five nuts to change a tire.

I know people who can play the piano, learn a song in minutes by ear, and others who can't carry a tune in a bucket and play no instrument no matter how many lessons they take.

I know people who can whip up a mouth-watering meals from leftovers in the fridge......and others who'd use six pans to boil water.....and burn it.

I can spell very well, my boss can't......

These are all natural aptitudes that have to be genetically controlled, or else we could all do anything with teaching and practice. It simply doesn't work like that. Without natural aptitude, there will always be someone who does have it that can do something better than you can with practice simply with innate talent.

11/06/2012 12:55:39 PM · #340

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Oh, SNAP!!!

LOL!!!

Originally posted by smardaz:

ironically when a guy says "oh snap".....it sounds kinda gay

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Hmm...

11/06/2012 12:58:37 PM · #341

Originally posted by mike_311:

part of the problem is that we as humans, unlike other animals, are able suppress our instinctual tendencies.

A given...

Originally posted by mike_311:

Homosexuality IS a choice, you choose to suppress the urge or not. However whether you have the urge itself inst a choice.

You're contradicting yourself. Homosexuality is *NOT* a choice.

Deciding to suppress that instinctual urge is a choice.

Having to suppress it because someone else tells you that you must is wrong.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

11/06/2012 01:44:39 PM · #342

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

These are all natural aptitudes that have to be genetically controlled...

This isn't actually the necessary case. You could have environmental triggers. Maybe people inclined to such and such were exposed to this and that at a certain point in their life, etc. (There is a huge industry with the poster child being Baby Einstein which believes their videos will stimulate baby's brain in such a way to foster such talents. Who knows if it's true, but there's plenty of money to be made...)

I'm not saying that natural aptitudes AREN'T genetic (some probably are) as much as I'm saying we just don't really know as much about the process as we wish we did.

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

11/06/2012 02:18:53 PM · #343

I keep remembering stories from my parents about having left handed children being forced to write with their right hands by the nuns in catholic school, because using the left hand was a sign of incipient evil. A ruler slapped into to the offending hand until it was too sore to be used can cure left handednes.
There are tendencies and triggers, and what ought to be "corrected" will change generation to generation.

Mike

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

11/06/2012 02:28:39 PM · #344

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

You're contradicting yourself. Homosexuality is *NOT* a choice.

Deciding to suppress that instinctual urge is a choice.

Having to suppress it because someone else tells you that you must is wrong.

i agree, thanks for correcting it.

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

11/06/2012 02:28:43 PM · #345

Shannon's left handed. That's all I need to know... ;)

I hear stories like this but are they really true? Incipient evil? I do blanche a bit at the idea that someone could really believe that in the 20th century.

Mike

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

11/06/2012 02:30:36 PM · #346

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I hear stories like this but are they really true? Incipient evil? I do blanche a bit at the idea that someone could really believe that in the 20th century.

im sure they be saying the same thing about homosexuality in a few decades.