| Author | Thread |
|
|
10/16/2012 08:18:52 PM · #26 |
Ok well bless his heart...he just doesn't understand reality
|
|
|
|
10/16/2012 09:24:03 PM · #27 |
The trope of the liberal Californian is another of those simple minded generalities, and like most generalities, they are untrue. Generally.
The only three U.S. presidents from California were Republican.
Some other famous liberals from California:
John Wayne, Chuck Norris, Clint Eastwood, Tucker Carlson, Michael Savage, David Horowitz, Caspar Weinberger and Darrell Issa,
California started Prop.13 and the property tax revolt, and Rush Limbaugh became a conservative talk show host here.
California is a purple state. |
|
|
|
10/16/2012 09:30:05 PM · #28 |
You are absolutely right...California is an extremely liberal state. Granted Reagan came from there..and he was good...So he was able to break the mold... I lived in CA a year... I couldnt get out of there fast enough
|
|
|
|
10/16/2012 10:15:42 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
You are absolutely right...California is an extremely liberal state. |
You misunderstood. A purple state is shorthand for neither red (conservative) nor blue (liberal). A purple state is centrist, in neither camp. California is currently about 52% democratic and 48% republican, its governorship follows a clear pattern; the Party affiliation of the last 10 Governors is as follows; D,R,D,R,R,D,R,D,R,R,D.
The fact that you see a state that straddles the center of the ideological line "extremely liberal" says more about your point on the spectrum than my home state's. |
|
|
|
10/16/2012 10:32:07 PM · #30 |
ok since 1992 California has gone for the Dem party as far as the pres is concerned...Before that it was republican
72 R, 76 R, 80 R, 84 R, 88 R, 92 D, 96 D, 2000 D, 04 D, 08 D
here is the link
link
|
|
|
|
10/16/2012 10:56:56 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Are you trying to say that Ronald Reagan was a bad pres...He was the best pres that we have had in recent history |
You're now talking about the part where he secretly sold weapons to Iran, and then used the money to fund a clandestine attempt to overthrow another soverign nation, right? Yup, JUST what the founders had in mind when they wrote the Constitution all right ... |
|
|
|
10/16/2012 10:58:37 PM · #32 |
| Do you think there was some sort of sea change that happened in 1992, before which all Californians voted Republican and after some magic date all Californians voted Democratic? This is not a digital world. |
|
|
|
10/16/2012 11:02:55 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
This is not a digital world. |
I beg to differ ...  ... I think you mean it's not a binary world ... |
|
|
|
10/16/2012 11:11:12 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
...the Party affiliation of the last 10 Governors is as follows; D,R,D,R,R,D,R,D,R,R,D.
... |
I think that could nearly sum up the whole thing nicely.
DRRRDRRRRDDRRRRDDRRR derp. |
|
|
|
10/16/2012 11:12:05 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Do you think there was some sort of sea change that happened in 1992, before which all Californians voted Republican and after some magic date all Californians voted Democratic? This is not a digital world. |
? Does it really matter if all voted, or some voted, when the winner is chosen, that's how the state votes.
Message edited by author 2012-10-16 23:12:52. |
|
|
|
10/17/2012 09:02:59 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by kawesttex:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Are you trying to say that Ronald Reagan was a bad pres...He was the best pres that we have had in recent history |
Don't forget he's from California. Shhhhh |
Don't forget that he also increased government spending 68%, more than quadrupled the national debt (greater than all previous presidents combined), reached 10.8% unemployment during his tax cuts, extended and expanded Social Security, granted amnesty to illegal immigrants who arrived before 1982, withdrew marines from Lebanon with no retaliation after 241 were killed in a terrorist bombing, allowed Iran to hold our embassy hostages longer than necessary for political gain, wasted billions on Star Wars defense, presided over Iran-Contra, a HUD housing scandal, and illegal lobbying (32 administration officials convicted of crimes), deregulated the savings and loan industry that led to a $130B bailout, literally trained and armed Al Qaeda and Bin Laden, supported Latin American dictators and death squads, and faced an administration investigation for a homosexual prostitution ring with male escorts as young as 15 getting unusual access to the White House. |
|
|
|
10/17/2012 09:12:33 AM · #37 |
California doesn't own the market on intrusive legislation for the good of their residents: NYC bans soft drinks over 16 ounces
|
|
|
|
10/17/2012 10:34:24 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by kawesttex:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Are you trying to say that Ronald Reagan was a bad pres...He was the best pres that we have had in recent history |
Don't forget he's from California. Shhhhh |
Don't forget that he also increased government spending 68%, more than quadrupled the national debt (greater than all previous presidents combined), reached 10.8% unemployment during his tax cuts, extended and expanded Social Security, granted amnesty to illegal immigrants who arrived before 1982, withdrew marines from Lebanon with no retaliation after 241 were killed in a terrorist bombing, allowed Iran to hold our embassy hostages longer than necessary for political gain, wasted billions on Star Wars defense, presided over Iran-Contra, a HUD housing scandal, and illegal lobbying (32 administration officials convicted of crimes), deregulated the savings and loan industry that led to a $130B bailout, literally trained and armed Al Qaeda and Bin Laden, supported Latin American dictators and death squads, and faced an administration investigation for a homosexual prostitution ring with male escorts as young as 15 getting unusual access to the White House. |
Don't forget that he also completely ignored the AIDS epidemic, and was an apologist for apartheid. |
|
|
|
10/17/2012 12:44:17 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
ok since 1992 California has gone for the Dem party as far as the pres is concerned...Before that it was republican
72 R, 76 R, 80 R, 84 R, 88 R, 92 D, 96 D, 2000 D, 04 D, 08 D
here is the link
link |
I'm glad you're starting to do some research to support your comments, sadly, this one helps only if we look at the last 20 years, and not overall patterns. Short term memory is a problem most voters have, ie. they remember only the most recent. I am going to bet that you weren't into politics when Reagan was in office, and I'm also going to bet that you haven't researched well the presidency of Mr. Reagan (or any other president for that matter). It is time-consuming, and sometimes a bit boring to do the research, and if you became more learned, you might not make the blanket comments you make, such as "Reagan was our best President in recent history." That is an un-qualified statement that does not make reference to the criteria you use to assess "best president". That makes your comment meaningless and the critics of your comment point to real fact to dispute your claim. That makes you look foolish and uninformed. I'm sure you don't want that. |
|
|
|
10/17/2012 02:12:27 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by frisca:
It is time-consuming, and sometimes a bit boring to do the research, and if you became more learned, you might not make the blanket comments you make, such as "Reagan was our best President in recent history." That is an un-qualified statement that does not make reference to the criteria you use to assess "best president". That makes your comment meaningless and the critics of your comment point to real fact to dispute your claim. That makes you look foolish and uninformed. I'm sure you don't want that. |
I hate to make you look foolish and uninformed, but there is a chart that ranks the aggregate rankings of our presidents as per a number of historians. Ronald Reagan IS the "best" president of recent history according to the list. His is listed as the 14th best president in our history and you have to go back to Kennedy/Johnson to beat him. That's now almost 45 years ago and probably not "recent" by most people's account.
* Obama is ranked by one historian and thus gets a 14th rank tie. I think it's fair to say the jury is still out and it would be unfair to claim his position as 14th best is solidified.
Historical rankings of the presidents |
|
|
|
10/17/2012 02:32:00 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by frisca:
It is time-consuming, and sometimes a bit boring to do the research, and if you became more learned, you might not make the blanket comments you make, such as "Reagan was our best President in recent history." That is an un-qualified statement that does not make reference to the criteria you use to assess "best president". That makes your comment meaningless and the critics of your comment point to real fact to dispute your claim. That makes you look foolish and uninformed. I'm sure you don't want that. |
I hate to make you look foolish and uninformed, but there is a chart that ranks the aggregate rankings of our presidents as per a number of historians. Ronald Reagan IS the "best" president of recent history according to the list. His is listed as the 14th best president in our history and you have to go back to Kennedy/Johnson to beat him. That's now almost 45 years ago and probably not "recent" by most people's account.
* Obama is ranked by one historian and thus gets a 14th rank tie. I think it's fair to say the jury is still out and it would be unfair to claim his position as 14th best is solidified.
Historical rankings of the presidents |
Well now Doc, let's see who is foolish and mis-informed.. I never ONCE claimed that Reagan wasn't the best President, or that someone else was. My comment was directed at the blanketness of the statement without supporting research or even an iteration of what criteria he uses to come to that conclusion, and there no answer to a couple of critical comments of Reagan's administration/actions so it makes the whole comment look uninformed (which isn't the same is incorrect) and unsupported. Of course, you've come to the rescue with your link of aggregate rankings, but none of that was presented in the original comment. I'm not an American -- I have no vested or personal interest in who is the best president, nor do I have an opinion on the topic, thus I didn't dispute cowboy's claim, I just pointed out that it was unsupported and sounded foolish for that reason. |
|
|
|
10/17/2012 02:39:19 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by frisca:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
ok since 1992 California has gone for the Dem party as far as the pres is concerned...Before that it was republican
72 R, 76 R, 80 R, 84 R, 88 R, 92 D, 96 D, 2000 D, 04 D, 08 D
here is the link
link |
I'm glad you're starting to do some research to support your comments, sadly, this one helps only if we look at the last 20 years, and not overall patterns. Short term memory is a problem most voters have, ie. they remember only the most recent. I am going to bet that you weren't into politics when Reagan was in office, and I'm also going to bet that you haven't researched well the presidency of Mr. Reagan (or any other president for that matter). It is time-consuming, and sometimes a bit boring to do the research, and if you became more learned, you might not make the blanket comments you make, such as "Reagan was our best President in recent history." That is an un-qualified statement that does not make reference to the criteria you use to assess "best president". That makes your comment meaningless and the critics of your comment point to real fact to dispute your claim. That makes you look foolish and uninformed. I'm sure you don't want that. |
99.9999% of voters are incompetent. Why bother with learning anything, it simply doesn't matter. |
|
|
|
10/17/2012 02:40:27 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by frisca:
.... |
I hate to make you look foolish and uninformed,..... |
Really? 'Cause from where I'm sitting the entire argument looks foolish.
Message edited by author 2012-10-17 14:40:38. |
|
|
|
10/17/2012 02:46:40 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by frisca:
Well now Doc, let's see who is foolish and mis-informed.. I never ONCE claimed that Reagan wasn't the best President, or that someone else was. My comment was directed at the blanketness of the statement without supporting research or even an iteration of what criteria he uses to come to that conclusion, and there no answer to a couple of critical comments of Reagan's administration/actions so it makes the whole comment look uninformed (which isn't the same is incorrect) and unsupported. Of course, you've come to the rescue with your link of aggregate rankings, but none of that was presented in the original comment. I'm not an American -- I have no vested or personal interest in who is the best president, nor do I have an opinion on the topic, thus I didn't dispute cowboy's claim, I just pointed out that it was unsupported and sounded foolish for that reason. |
LOL. I believe you...not. Unsupported claims probably outnumber supported ones 10 to 1 on these threads yet you chose Cowboy's to play the wise mentor? I'm afraid rant has made me a bit too cynical to accept that at face value. |
|
|
|
10/17/2012 02:54:26 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by frisca:
Well now Doc, let's see who is foolish and mis-informed.. I never ONCE claimed that Reagan wasn't the best President, or that someone else was. My comment was directed at the blanketness of the statement without supporting research or even an iteration of what criteria he uses to come to that conclusion, and there no answer to a couple of critical comments of Reagan's administration/actions so it makes the whole comment look uninformed (which isn't the same is incorrect) and unsupported. Of course, you've come to the rescue with your link of aggregate rankings, but none of that was presented in the original comment. I'm not an American -- I have no vested or personal interest in who is the best president, nor do I have an opinion on the topic, thus I didn't dispute cowboy's claim, I just pointed out that it was unsupported and sounded foolish for that reason. |
LOL. I believe you...not. Unsupported claims probably outnumber supported ones 10 to 1 on these threads yet you chose Cowboy's to play the wise mentor? I'm afraid rant has made me a bit too cynical to accept that at face value. |
Well, it's good to know /rant has served some purpose.... Life gave me my cynicism. |
|
|
|
10/17/2012 03:01:15 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by frisca:
Well now Doc, let's see who is foolish and mis-informed.. I never ONCE claimed that Reagan wasn't the best President, or that someone else was. My comment was directed at the blanketness of the statement without supporting research or even an iteration of what criteria he uses to come to that conclusion, and there no answer to a couple of critical comments of Reagan's administration/actions so it makes the whole comment look uninformed (which isn't the same is incorrect) and unsupported. Of course, you've come to the rescue with your link of aggregate rankings, but none of that was presented in the original comment. I'm not an American -- I have no vested or personal interest in who is the best president, nor do I have an opinion on the topic, thus I didn't dispute cowboy's claim, I just pointed out that it was unsupported and sounded foolish for that reason. |
LOL. I believe you...not. Unsupported claims probably outnumber supported ones 10 to 1 on these threads yet you chose Cowboy's to play the wise mentor? I'm afraid rant has made me a bit too cynical to accept that at face value. |
Yes I did choose cowboy and no it wasn't a pointed attack. You can be cynical, and you can also be wrong. Sorry that you felt it was personal, it was not. Frankly, I don't care if you believe me on my intentions or not. I've watched enough of your actions to know that you're the last person to be making such accusations. |
|
|
|
10/17/2012 04:09:40 PM · #47 |
| You just came in on the tail end of the Reagan bashing so maybe you bore the brunt of my criticism for your colleagues. The majority of DPC ranters are unabashedly liberal so when Cowboy makes some statement that Reagan was awesome I smirked at the immediate list of his sins. I mainly smirked because they are all true, YET, he is still objectively ranked as one of the "best" presidents of our times. I guess the bar is pretty low these days. Perhaps I reacted to your suggestion that Cowboy needs to do his research when the three previous anti-Reagan commenters had seemingly done their research yet their implied opinion wouldn't overall be supported by those who "do this for a living". If you take the "expert" opinion then, Cowboy and his unsupported opinion was less foolish than the three others and their supported arguments. |
|
|
|
10/17/2012 04:16:05 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
You just came in on the tail end of the Reagan bashing so maybe you bore the brunt of my criticism for your colleagues. The majority of DPC ranters are unabashedly liberal so when Cowboy makes some statement that Reagan was awesome I smirked at the immediate list of his sins. I mainly smirked because they are all true, YET, he is still objectively ranked as one of the "best" presidents of our times. I guess the bar is pretty low these days. Perhaps I reacted to your suggestion that Cowboy needs to do his research when the three previous anti-Reagan commenters had seemingly done their research yet their implied opinion wouldn't overall be supported by those who "do this for a living". If you take the "expert" opinion then, Cowboy and his unsupported opinion was less foolish than the three others and their supported arguments. |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by frisca:
.... |
I hate to make you look foolish and uninformed,..... |
Really? 'Cause from where I'm sitting the entire argument looks foolish. |
|
|
|
|
10/17/2012 04:18:06 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
You just came in on the tail end of the Reagan bashing so maybe you bore the brunt of my criticism for your colleagues. The majority of DPC ranters are unabashedly liberal so when Cowboy makes some statement that Reagan was awesome I smirked at the immediate list of his sins. I mainly smirked because they are all true, YET, he is still objectively ranked as one of the "best" presidents of our times. I guess the bar is pretty low these days. Perhaps I reacted to your suggestion that Cowboy needs to do his research when the three previous anti-Reagan commenters had seemingly done their research yet their implied opinion wouldn't overall be supported by those who "do this for a living". If you take the "expert" opinion then, Cowboy and his unsupported opinion was less foolish than the three others and their supported arguments. |
We are roughly the same age Doc, and were teenagers in the Reagan era. Reagan was a great politician, a larger than life American- and he had a Hollywood knack for taking credit for things. And, by todays standards, he was more liberal than Obama. Ironically, Cowboy was complaining about Californians, and then ended up "unabashedly" to borrow your term, defending Californians. |
|
|
|
10/17/2012 04:25:06 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by blindjustice:
...by todays standards, he was more liberal than Obama... |
I've heard talk like this before, but I don't quite think it's true. Can you support it with some examples?
Politicians and movie stars both have a knack for taking credit. Reagan was probably a perfect storm. At the least I guess he also took credit for Iran-Contra affair after it went to hell. I don't think many politicians these days would be willing to fall on their sword like that. I'm sure we both remember his apology from the oval office.
Message edited by author 2012-10-17 16:25:48. |
|
