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 09/16/2012 02:56:08 PM · #1
Hi all. I've been mulling over which wide angle to get so thought i'd get some opinions. On Nikon.

I've pretty much finished my first year with wedding photography and have done 12 weddings in the last few months. They all went really well and have made me realise what new kit i want for next season. I've been using a two camera set up. The D700 and D300 carried at the same time. Top the list to get is another full frame, probably another D700 as i'm more than happy with that. The D300 has been good but i've really noticed the limitations and it pales against the D700. D300, whilst five years old, still only has around 50,000 on the shutter so is good for a while yet and will do as back up and a knocking about camera.

So, thinking about a dual full frame set up, i've found that most of my shots have been with the 85mm 1.4D so that's staying on one camera which leaves me wanting something for the wide. I'd initially thought about a zoom. The Nikon 16-35mm f4 was a contender but i think too slow even with VR. I also thought about the Tokina 16-28 f2.8 but, again, too slow for me really. I've had the classic Nikon 24-70mmm 2.8 but sold it. Lovely image quality but i didn't take to it really. What i think i'm settling into is a base two fast prime kit (along with my 20mm prime for when i want ultra wide and i'll get something longer for the few times i need it-135mmm or 180mm or something- i've found i haven't really needed to go very long yet. The few times when i have needed it i've put the 85mm on the crop to get the reach. Nearly all of my weddings so far have been in country manor type places or castles where i've been pretty close up. I haven't had a big church yet, nor have i got any booked yet for next year but i'm sure i'll get something needing a long lens soon.)

So i'm after a wide fast prime. I think 24mm is a bit too wide for me so i'm looking at the 28mm - 35mm range. I've got the Nikon 28mm f2.8 ais manual focus which is a lovely lens but i want something faster. Also, i am fine with manual focus for this FL. I know there are some wedding photographers online who think it's the height of non-professionalism to shoot only with prime lenses let alone manual focus but i'm ok with it. It's not sports and after years of manual focusing i'm pretty quick and actually prefer it in many cases.

With that in mind i've narrowed it down to these few...

Nikon 28mm f1.8G - This new lens looks great optically but i'm really not keen on the build. I really like solid build quality, which is why i personally prefer shooting with old ai or ais lenses. I do want something that will last me professionally for a long long time and i'm not keen on a longer, plastic version of the 35mm 1.8 DX (even though the 35mm 1.8DX is a fantastic lens. I used to have it and i may get it again just to stay on the D300)

Nikon 28mm f2 ais - Meant to be a great lens. As i said, my f2.8 ais is wonderful and the extra stop is what i'm after but i'm not sure of the performance at that extra f2. It's small and will last as it's probably lasted well the last 20 years anyway. But i'm kind of thinking 35mm may be a better FL for what i want to use it for.

Zeiss Distagon T* 28mm f/2 ZF.2 - This looks great but a bit out of my price range. Plus, i'm veering more towards a 35mm.

Nikon 35mm f2D - I've used this before and it's a nice lens but nothing spectacular.

Nikon 35mm f1.4G - This would be nice but more than i want to pay really. Plus, image quality aside i'm not a huge fan of the new G series. I'd like it to perform well as a manual focus lens as well as auto focus no matter how accurate the auto focus is. I often wish my 85mm 1.4 D was better at manual focus sometimes but i do like auto focus at that focal length and wouldn't change it.

Samyang 35mm 1.4 - Seen some great reviews and images from this one and it's one i'm really thinking about. It's designed as a manual focus and meant to be great at that. Build quality looks ok even for a cheap lens. And it is amazingly cheap. So, it's a contender but i really want something good to last and be reliable so i'm wary.

Zeiss Distagon T* 35mm f/2 ZF.2 - This is where my head is at at the moment. It's at the very top of my budget but i feel, for a lens to last a lifetime, it'd be worth it. Manual focus of course but that's ok. Build quality and image quality is meant to be superb. Vignettes heavily at f2 but i'd probably add more anyway for what i do.

So, i'm seriously considering the Zeiss 35mm at the moment but i'm still thinking the Samyang may be great and more of a bargain. The Zeiss 28mm and Nikon's 28mm 1.8G and f2 ais are still contenders though, which i'm still considering. Option anxiety! Any thoughts?

Message edited by author 2012-09-16 18:06:53.
 09/16/2012 05:24:27 PM · #2
By the way, if anyone is interested how my recent wedding stuff is going you can find some stuff on my blog here. I'm pleased so far (and, more importantly, all the couples seem to be as well). It's been hard work but worth it. I think i've still got a way to go before i get my 'style' down really but i know what i'm aiming towards and that's a start!
 09/17/2012 07:13:51 AM · #3
Bumping to see if anyone has any thoughts.

Also, one of my earlier plans to get a fast 35mm is to get the Fuji X100 which a lot of wedding photographers have taken to as a second/extra camera. I'm not so sure now. I got the x10 for my partner for her birthday and it's a nice size.
 09/17/2012 07:28:32 AM · #4
Sorry I'm no expert on lenses, but I do love your wedding photos, especially the vintage style ones.
Glad it's going well for you!
 09/17/2012 08:45:01 AM · #5
Personally, I love the Mikkor 24 f2.8 AIS. It is a great lens, and when I shot film, it the lens that ended up on my camera almost exclusively. When I go to FF, I will likely be using it a great deal again....

I have not tried the lenses you are looking at, but it seems you are really going for super fast glass in the f2 range. Is there anyway you can get trials on these to find out which is the best for your situation. I know you can rent many of these and that may be one option for you.

Let us know what you end up with!
 09/18/2012 07:25:50 AM · #6
Thanks Anita! :)

Yes, Peter, the 24mm 2.8 ais sounds great. Like i say, i love the similar 28mm 2.8mm ais. A lovely lens. I'm definitely after something faster in the f1.4-f2 range though, not just for low light but for the shallower DOF. Trying out first is a good suggestion but unfortunately shops in the UK don't tend to do that and you can generally only return something if it is damaged. Also, not many camera shops around here-and less so these days as some are closing down. What shops that are round here are not likely to stock most of these as they tend to be a bit more obscure. I did try the Nikon 28mm 1.8g in a local shop though which is why i know i'm not too keen on the build. Renting is another idea but not too cheap in the UK and to try a couple would put a bit of a dent in the budget.

I guess i'm not getting many replies to this thread because not many have these lenses. I know MattO sold his new Nikon 28mm 1.8G recently as he was happy with the Nikon 28mm f2 ais so that bodes well for that lens. I think i am still definitely leaning towards one of the Zeiss lenses-probably the 35mm as i have a gap at the focal length and i think it'll pair well with the 85mm. I found some good reviews of it online including one by this guy who seemed to be in pretty much the same position as me albeit with Canon.

Message edited by author 2012-09-18 07:27:05.
 09/18/2012 07:38:12 AM · #7
I will say that I don't have experience with Nikon, at least not since I sold my F3's...anyway, I do have a thing for my Sigma 12-24 though I suspect that's not the kind of thing you're looking for.
 09/18/2012 08:27:05 AM · #8
I had the Tokina 12-24 f4 which i loved and was great on the crop. Far too slow for what i'm after though.
 09/18/2012 08:27:26 AM · #9
I considered chiming in, even if it wasn't what you asked for... well, here are my personal thoughts.

I enjoy 24mm on FF (I shoot it on film on an F100), and I also find it to be very usable on crop, as well. I use the 24 2.8 AF-D. It's about the size of a 50 1.8G but is built way way better. I take it backpacking etc when I know weight is a premium and I want a fast, quality prime that is relatively wide on my crop sensor. If I'm shooting film, it's far wider and suits my general needs (24mm FF seems to be typical for me for mountainscapes on climbs and trips, as my P&S goes that wide and it's usually sufficient. The AF is very snappy, sharpness is good, but I haven't pixel peeped as deeply on the corners FF because of cost and really just the nature of my film work. High apertures it does tend to break down a bit due to diffraction, but nothing horrible. The portability is awesome though- like I said it's the size of a 50 1.8G, but the better build makes it weigh more. You should be able to pick one up used like I did pretty reasonably.

Then, on the opposite side of the spectrum, is the Nikon 35mm 1.4, which is way more expensive like you noted.
I own the Dx 30 1.4 from Sigma, and I like it overall. The issue I have with it is AF at distance. It seems to be fine at shorter distances, even in abysmal light, but longer distance, it seems to be unsure. I note it here because it has a wonderful effect on FF when used (at least on film).

One idea you might want to mull over is picking up the 35 1.8 dx. This might seem ridiculous at first, but if you're already planning to vignette etc, the dx lens will blur things and add to your effect. I know that David Hobby uses this lens often on his D3 for just that reason. Film-wise, I love using my Sigma 30 1.4 even though it is a crop lens, because of how it renders the edges.

Message edited by author 2012-09-18 08:29:43.
 09/19/2012 01:37:15 PM · #10
Thanks for your ideas Derek. Yes, i like a 20-24 range on the FF and it does come in handy for some wedding stuff but i think it's too wide to use a huge amount particularly with people. The 20mm i have is good for an ultra wide ceremony shot or bridal prep image. It also came in very useful in the back of a Volkswagen Beetle which seems to be a poplar wedding car (well, i've had two weddings this summer that used them anyway).

Very good idea about using the 35mm 1.8 DX on the full frame. I'm planning to pick another one of them up as it's such a great lens and it can live on the D300. I'll try it on the D700 and see what it's like.

I'm pretty much going to go for the Zeiss 35mm f2 still. I came across a blog post by this wedding photographer, Ken Luallen in which he talks about using Zeiss lenses almost exclusively. (He says that, as far as he can see, he is the only wedding photographer in the world doing so- quite a claim!) He uses the 28mm f2, 35mm f2, 50mm f2, 85mm 1.4 and the 100mm f2 , on Canon, along with a Canon 70-200 f2.8 as Zeiss don't have anything in that range (although this week they've just announced a 135mm f2 so i imagine he'll be getting that) . His wedding images are great and it's inspiring to come across someone using just manual focus. So, i think the 35mm and if i get the Zeiss bug then maybe the 25mm f2 or even the 135mm f2 in the future!
 09/19/2012 01:57:20 PM · #11
As long as you are comfortable manually focusing Zeiss lenses when under pressure then you can't beat them - but personally I would never take that kind of chance in a high pressured/fast moving environment such as a wedding, Especially with such wide apertures/shallow DOFs.

However, quite WHY Zeiss have never gone down the AF route like Sigma/Tamron (I assume the patents for their AF solutions has expired) I have no idea, they would clean up in the high end photography market. I'm sure someone can answer that for me..

Message edited by author 2012-09-19 13:57:59.
 09/19/2012 02:24:39 PM · #12
Originally posted by Simms:
As long as you are comfortable manually focusing Zeiss lenses when under pressure then you can't beat them - but personally I would never take that kind of chance in a high pressured/fast moving environment such as a wedding, Especially with such wide apertures/shallow DOFs.


I don't think i'd do everything manual focus- i'm not getting rid of the Nikon 85mm f1.4 for example- but for a lot it'd be ok i think. It would be fine for bridal preps i'd say and the ceremony is hardly unpredictable and fast paced. I'd always have one auto focus to hand along with a wider manual focus. No idea why Zeiss haven't gone autofocus. They do well with the increasing slr video market with the manuals at the moment i imagine. An auto focus would bump the price, size and weight up quite a bit and they're pretty hefty and expensive as they are.
 01/18/2013 02:44:27 PM · #13
Hi. Thought i'd do a catch up on this thread for those who are interested in where i ended up. It's been a few months and i've looked at a few options.

I first bought the Samyang 35mm 1.4. Very cheap lens and seemed to have great IQ but i didn't take to it really. It was quite nice and interesting wide open but it was really hard to focus. Even at 2.8 i struggled to hit focus (i'm fine on my 28mm 2.8 aid). Also, whilst it was quite sturdy it did seem quite cheap in how it handled. Infinity stop was way off and i'm sure the focus marking were all over the shop. Anyway, i didn't really like it much so sent it back.

I had a bit of a wait then until after Christmas before looking again. The new Sigma 35mm 1.4 looked great but one thing i did realise from playing with the Samyang was that 35mm wasn't really wide enough for what i wanted. I much preferred my 28mm so something along those lines was more to my liking. I tried the Nikon 28mm 1.8 again in a shop and still wasn't keen on the build. So i started looking at the 24mm options. I was back and forth between the Zeiss 25mm f2 and the Nikon 24mm 1.4G for ages. They both looked superb.

In the end the Zeiss bug got me and i ended up going a bit mad and ordering the Zeiss 25mm f2 and the Zeiss 100mm f2 makro. So that was that until the shop got back in contact and said that Zeiss had given them the wrong delivery estimates and the 25mm could take a couple of weeks and the 100mm a couple of months or more. So that gave me time to re-think again and i think i did get a bit Zeiss crazy seeing as the 100mm wasn't really needed for the wedding stuff i'll mainly be doing so i cancelled that order.

I ended up being a bit more sensible and getting the Nikon 24mm 1.4G and i think that'll be perfect paired with my 85mm 1.4D for weddings. I got myself a second D700 as well.

I also got the Olympus OMD-M5 which i think will be a great little extra camera to have. I'm going to get the Panasonic Leica 25mm 1.4 many people have been raving about so that'll be a good fast 50mm to have. I've wanted a much quieter and smaller camera for weddings for the quieter ceremonies in intimate rooms instead of dealing with the noise the d700 makes.

I'm still lusting after that Zeiss 100mm though! Maybe in a few years. I've spent quite enough for a while!

Anyway, all the goodies arrived this afternoon and the lens is lovely. Very pleased. Haven't had a chance to play with the Olympus yet though.

Here's a couple of initial shots with the Nikon 24mm 1.4G I love it.



Message edited by author 2013-01-18 14:50:00.
 01/19/2013 05:54:35 PM · #14
Since I've been shopping in the same space for different reasons (I need a lightweight travel lens, not a lens for weddings)...I think, given your requirements, you made the right choice. Great lens, maybe a little pricey, but fast, great IQ, and the right focal length for the job. I don't think there's really anything better out there. I hear you about the Zeiss lenses, though, if I didn't have the *lightweight* requirement, I'd be right there. But by the same token, I wouldn't want to shoot a wedding with a MF lens.

I ended up with a Voigtlander 20. Not nearly as fast (at f/3.5, not fast at all), but I wanted a little wider than 24, and for my needs, light was more important than fast. The IQ, while not Zeiss-like, is pretty darn good for a lens this small and light.
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