Section 8's now moving into luxury gated community

10/04/2012 05:18:55 PM · #151

Originally posted by Kelli:

eta: And what exactly is my "lot"?

Those who haven't seen, and don't understand the underground.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

10/04/2012 05:20:18 PM · #152

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Now, which side is against regulation, and for letting corporations have a freer rein to maximize "profits"?

Certainly not me. I think the cheating and abuse needs to stop on all fronts. Why do you feel a need to shift the blame when both parties are guilty, to whatever degree?

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

10/04/2012 05:27:52 PM · #153

Originally posted by Cory:

I can see how you come by your views, I suspect the same is true of much of your lot.

As one of her lot, I can say your attitude is part of the problem. I have probably turned in half a dozen people for worker comp fraud.

I met a ski instructor who was on lifetime disability from his drywall business because he had severed a tendon in his thumb. It did not seem to hurt his excellent pole plants.

I turned in a guy working on a job site who gleefully told be he was drawing 2 lifetime disability checks, while it seems hoping to find another place to suffer an injury.

Sadly the budget at the state level is so trashed that the state has largely given up fraud investigations, and it is left to employers to hire private detectives to prove that people are faking or overstating injuries, drawing benefits and working side jobs. The costs of such fraud is borne by employers who's rates are driven up, and by those who are truly injured whose benefits are degraded by sharing the pool of benefits with the 1.2 billion dollars of yearly fraud If you rip open a finger on a job, worker's comp is not enough to pay your rent and feed the kids while you rehab, and part of the reason the benefits are so bad is that leaches are sucking the money out of the system that you need to keep your life together until you can get back to work,

yanko

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

10/04/2012 05:37:00 PM · #154

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Now, which side is against regulation, and for letting corporations have a freer rein to maximize "profits"?

Certainly not me. I think the cheating and abuse needs to stop on all fronts. Why do you feel a need to shift the blame when both parties are guilty, to whatever degree?

You have to forgive Paul. He doesn't have access to the super secret forum section where you and other conservatives, who say this sort of thing, start thread after thread about how rich people and corporations game the system. He doesn't see how you're actually truthful when you say you're against all abuse and not just those stealing pennies leftover from the latest corporate heists.

Sony SAL-1855 DT 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

10/04/2012 05:40:30 PM · #155

Originally posted by BrennanOB:

Originally posted by Cory:
I can see how you come by your views, I suspect the same is true of much of your lot.

As one of her lot, I can say your attitude is part of the problem. I have probably turned in half a dozen people for worker comp fraud.

I met a ski instructor who was on lifetime disability from his drywall business because he had severed a tendon in his thumb. It did not seem to hurt his excellent pole plants.

I turned in a guy working on a job site who gleefully told be he was drawing 2 lifetime disability checks, while it seems hoping to find another place to suffer an injury.

Sadly the budget at the state level is so trashed that the state has largely given up fraud investigations, and it is left to employers to hire private detectives to prove that people are faking or overstating injuries, drawing benefits and working side jobs. The costs of such fraud is borne by employers who's rates are driven up, and by those who are truly injured whose benefits are degraded by sharing the pool of benefits with the 1.2 billion dollars of yearly fraud If you rip open a finger on a job, worker's comp is not enough to pay your rent and feed the kids while you rehab, and part of the reason the benefits are so bad is that leaches are sucking the money out of the system that you need to keep your life together until you can get back to work,

Our values differ. I come from a place where people who turn in their close associates to the police are usually dealt with severely by the entire community.

In the end you have turned in what, six people? And I suppose you think it's made a big difference? As I see it, it just makes you someone who I would never confide in.

Of course, by that logic, it seems likely that you believe wars should be fought with soldiers lives instead of the lives of their leaders, since that's pretty much the equivalent. You want to attack the problem from a bottom-up approach, I think a top-down approach is much more humane and effective. Fix the system, and let the soldiers live.

By the way, each of those folks you turned in may have only generated a larger expense, since they naturally would have needed at least six or so court dates to work out the details. Best case scenario is that they were ordered to pay back money they'll never have anyway, or worse case is that they are in jail, taking up a much larger amount of resources.

Message edited by author 2012-10-04 17:42:04.

JamesDowning

Sony SLT-A33

10/04/2012 05:43:27 PM · #156

How in the world are you guys creating such lengthy and detailed responses on a thursday?!

Obviously you all are gaming SOMEONE. :)

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

10/04/2012 05:43:38 PM · #157

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Now, which side is against regulation, and for letting corporations have a freer rein to maximize "profits"?

Certainly not me. I think the cheating and abuse needs to stop on all fronts. Why do you feel a need to shift the blame when both parties are guilty, to whatever degree?

You have to forgive Paul. He doesn't have access to the super secret forum section where you and other conservatives, who say this sort of thing, start thread after thread about how rich people and corporations game the system. He doesn't see how you're actually truthful when you say you're against all abuse and not just those stealing pennies leftover from the latest corporate heists.

Bogus, I'll forgive Paul, but this tripe is difficult to swallow. Where do you get the idea that I'm for corporations screwing us anymore than I'm for us screwing us?

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

10/04/2012 05:43:50 PM · #158

I don't need to see the underground. I have no desire to be in that place. But, I've seen the real life damage that the republican "attack the social programs" mentality has wrecked. I have an aunt (my mothers sister) who is physically handicapped with severe rheumatoid arthritis that started as a child. She is completely bed bound and needs care 24/7. She is married and her husband is her care giver. She needs to be physically lifted onto a commode to go to the bathroom, or needs an adult diaper if he has to run out and leave her alone. She can barely hold a fork, can not cut her food, can't dress herself, etc. They live on SSI. She worked from when she was 18 to about 25 when things got bad. Not long enough to collect SSD. So they live on SSI and get medicaid & foodstamps. They get no help whatsoever in the home. They live in a tiny one bedroom apt that costs $750/month (which is dirt cheap in NJ) and he cannot get her into the bathroom to bathe her. They used to receive $985/month. This allowed them to pay their rent, electric, phone and car insurance each month. Then NJ elected a republican governor. Suddenly they were cut down to $755/month. Sorry poor people, you're on your own as far as the state of NJ goes. Apparently SSI is composed of a part that comes from the federal government & a part that comes from your state. NJ longer longer contributes to SSI. So now they have $5/month left to pay all their bills. They pleaded, they begged for a review, anything. Sorry. They've been on a waiting list for over 10 years for section 8. Still hasn't happened. They got rid of their car (which was 15 years old), and she has to be picked up by ambulance to go to the pain management doctor each month. So in order to pay their bills (electric, phone) they sell their food stamps and go hungry. Yeah, really great system. Am I bitter? Yes Cory, I think I'm quite bitter too.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

10/04/2012 05:44:52 PM · #159

Originally posted by Kelli:

Ahh, so it was the evil republicans was it?

You sure do see things in a simple and uncomplicated light. That sort of idealism must be pretty comfy.

You know, while I do feel bad for your relative, it frankly sounds like she tried to hard, and she's too honest. If you try to work, and you don't lie, and game, you will be treated as she is treated. I'd guess she's an honest, wonderful person. Too bad for her, that's not what's rewarded in this system.

ETA: That ambulance ride each month probably costs more than all of her benefits together. That is EXACTLY the sort of stupidity I'm railing against.

And yes, you're right to be furious, it's wrong, it's distasteful and it makes me sad, which makes me quite angry as well, but in the end, I realize my anger and my action won't do shit - the government stopped listening to people long ago. Hence, apathy, and wasting my time on conversations like this in /Rant, because it gives me the same "venting" effect real action would, and has about the same net effect. Plus I don't have to leave my house.

Message edited by author 2012-10-04 17:52:08.

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

10/04/2012 05:56:04 PM · #160

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Kelli:
I don't need to see the underground. I have no desire to be in that place. But, I've seen the real life damage that the republican "attack the social programs" mentality has wrecked. I have an aunt (my mothers sister) who is physically handicapped with severe rheumatoid arthritis that started as a child. She is completely bed bound and needs care 24/7. She is married and her husband is her care giver. She needs to be physically lifted onto a commode to go to the bathroom, or needs an adult diaper if he has to run out and leave her alone. She can barely hold a fork, can not cut her food, can't dress herself, etc. They live on SSI. She worked from when she was 18 to about 25 when things got bad. Not long enough to collect SSD. So they live on SSI and get medicaid & foodstamps. They get no help whatsoever in the home. They live in a tiny one bedroom apt that costs $750/month (which is dirt cheap in NJ) and he cannot get her into the bathroom to bathe her. They used to receive $985/month. This allowed them to pay their rent, electric, phone and car insurance each month. Then NJ elected a republican governor. Suddenly they were cut down to $755/month. Sorry poor people, you're on your own as far as the state of NJ goes. Apparently SSI is composed of a part that comes from the federal government & a part that comes from your state. NJ longer longer contributes to SSI. So now they have $5/month left to pay all their bills. They pleaded, they begged for a review, anything. Sorry. They've been on a waiting list for over 10 years for section 8. Still hasn't happened. They got rid of their car (which was 15 years old), and she has to be picked up by ambulance to go to the pain management doctor each month. So in order to pay their bills (electric, phone) they sell their food stamps and go hungry. Yeah, really great system. Am I bitter? Yes Cory, I think I'm quite bitter too.

Ahh, so it was the evil republicans was it?

You sure do see things in a simple and uncomplicated light. That sort of idealism must be pretty comfy.

You know, while I do feel bad for your relative, it frankly sounds like she tried to hard, and she's too honest. If you try to work, and you don't lie, and game, you will be treated as she is treated. I'd guess she's an honest, wonderful person. Too bad for her, that's not what's rewarded in this system.

ETA: That ambulance ride each month probably costs more than all of her benefits together. That is EXACTLY the sort of stupidity I'm railing against.

And yes, you're right to be furious, it's wrong, it's distasteful and it makes me sad, which makes me quite angry as well, but in the end, I realize my anger and my action won't do shit - the government stopped listening to people long ago. Hence, apathy, and wasting my time on conversations like this in /Rant, because it gives me the same "venting" effect real action would, and has about the same net effect. Plus I don't have to leave my house.

Yes, those evil republicans... //www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/05/1080929/-New-Jersey-Gov-Chris-Christie-pretends-1-57-billion-in-corporate-tax-breaks-is-a-jobs-program

yanko

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

10/04/2012 06:13:52 PM · #161

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Now, which side is against regulation, and for letting corporations have a freer rein to maximize "profits"?

Certainly not me. I think the cheating and abuse needs to stop on all fronts. Why do you feel a need to shift the blame when both parties are guilty, to whatever degree?

You have to forgive Paul. He doesn't have access to the super secret forum section where you and other conservatives, who say this sort of thing, start thread after thread about how rich people and corporations game the system. He doesn't see how you're actually truthful when you say you're against all abuse and not just those stealing pennies leftover from the latest corporate heists.

Bogus, I'll forgive Paul, but this tripe is difficult to swallow. Where do you get the idea that I'm for corporations screwing us anymore than I'm for us screwing us?

Didn't say you were. As I said before, I'm sure those threads exist somewhere. Maybe they get drowned out by all of the ones focused on the small potatoes, like this one.

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

10/04/2012 06:18:10 PM · #162

Originally posted by Cory:

Our values differ. I come from a place where people who turn in their close associates to the police are usually dealt with severely by the entire community.

Our values do differ. I will not befriend a person I know is a cheat or a thief. I am lucky enough to live in an area where the police are seen as a community service, not the enemy. I have empathy for people I do not know, but none for those who have proven themselves unworthy of it. While you seem to see the world as as Tennyson's jungle, bloody in tooth and claw, I prefer Voltaire's garden, we feed and prune, it is what we were put on earth for. As far as how pointless individual action is in your opinion, I will quote Teddy Roosevelt "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are"

JamesDowning

Sony SLT-A33

Sony SAL-1855 DT 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

10/04/2012 06:22:32 PM · #163

Originally posted by BrennanOB:

Originally posted by Cory:

Our values differ. I come from a place where people who turn in their close associates to the police are usually dealt with severely by the entire community.

Our values do differ. I will not befriend a person I know is a cheat or a thief. I am lucky enough to live in an area where the police are seen as a community service, not the enemy. I have empathy for people I do not know, but none for those who have proven themselves unworthy of it. While you seem to see the world as as Tennyson's jungle, bloody in tooth and claw, I prefer Voltaire's garden, we feed and prune, it is what we were put on earth for. As far as how pointless individual action is in your opinion, I will quote Teddy Roosevelt "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are"

Just don't forget to prune from time to time. You keep feeding a garden without any trimming, and it gets pretty wild.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

10/04/2012 07:02:33 PM · #164

Originally posted by Cory:

Best case scenario is that they were ordered to pay back money they'll never have anyway...

No, the "Best Case Scenario" here is that they are disqualified from receiving aid to which they are not entitled.

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

10/04/2012 07:51:16 PM · #165

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by Cory:
Best case scenario is that they were ordered to pay back money they'll never have anyway...

No, the "Best Case Scenario" here is that they are disqualified from receiving aid to which they are not entitled.

I have not seen a system which isn't regularly subject to lengthy appeals.. Do you suppose they just get a tip and shut off the tap? There is real additional cost involved which arguably is less efficient than trying to just bulletproof the entire system. Send a person out to do the assessment, not endless forms. There are just so many things wrong its hard to know where to start.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

10/04/2012 08:38:29 PM · #166

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by Cory:
Best case scenario is that they were ordered to pay back money they'll never have anyway...

No, the "Best Case Scenario" here is that they are disqualified from receiving aid to which they are not entitled.

I have not seen a system which isn't regularly subject to lengthy appeals.. Do you suppose they just get a tip and shut off the tap? There is real additional cost involved which arguably is less efficient than trying to just bulletproof the entire system. Send a person out to do the assessment, not endless forms. There are just so many things wrong its hard to know where to start.

Cory, you're starting to sound strident. Regardless of how incensed you are about the system, NEVERTHELESS the best-case scenario WOULD be the cutting off of aid, right? It was just an observation, dude.