Latest Look at the 2012 U.S. Elections

Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f2.8D

08/30/2012 05:40:57 PM · #101

This is beyond not funny. Ignorant mooing masses shouting "USA" to interrupt a Puerto Rican speaker isn't patriotism. It's rude, low class and idiotic.

Racism at the RNC

David Ey

Nikon D80

08/30/2012 06:02:23 PM · #102

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Amazing how "conservatives" are for no goverment interference with individual liberty except when it comes to a woman's uterus or what people choose to smoke ...

Are you making a bid for the smoking of crack cocaine?

08/30/2012 06:03:54 PM · #103

Originally posted by escapetooz:

This is beyond not funny. Ignorant mooing masses shouting "USA" to interrupt a Puerto Rican speaker isn't patriotism. It's rude, low class and idiotic.

Racism at the RNC

WOW - talk about out-of-context! I saw the story the other day - this had NOTHING to do with the woman at all. This disruption was the result of the rules changes that were "passed" just before she came out that Ron Paul supporters got mad & loud about and other GOP delegates shouted down the RP supporters with the "USA!" screams. See this video: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=77W5OKStO5s

Nothing to do with her, her race, racism, etc. I'm not a fan of the GOP, but I don't believe "they" are racist any more than I believe liberals are stupid and that kind of bullshit propaganda doesn't help anyone.

edit to clarify: The shouting and ruckus was a continuation of previous events and the Puerto Rican woman just walked out to do her thing before the shouting had been quelled. Again, NOTHING to do with her.

Message edited by author 2012-08-30 18:06:44.

08/30/2012 06:09:50 PM · #104

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by escapetooz:
This is beyond not funny. Ignorant mooing masses shouting "USA" to interrupt a Puerto Rican speaker isn't patriotism. It's rude, low class and idiotic.

Racism at the RNC

WOW - talk about out-of-context! I saw the story the other day - this had NOTHING to do with the woman at all. This disruption was the result of the rules changes that were "passed" just before she came out that Ron Paul supporters got mad & loud about and other GOP delegates shouted down the RP supporters with the "USA!" screams. See this video: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=77W5OKStO5s

Nothing to do with her, her race, racism, etc. I'm not a fan of the GOP, but I don't believe "they" are racist any more than I believe liberals are stupid and that kind of bullshit propaganda doesn't help anyone.

edit to clarify: The shouting and ruckus was a continuation of previous events and the Puerto Rican woman just walked out to do her thing before the shouting had been quelled. Again, NOTHING to do with her.

Hmm... I hate being duped. This is really frustrated. I really, really hate when people pull this shit. There are plenty of SUBSTANTIVE reasons to tear down either side, why resort to false out of context stories? At least this one can be chalked up to a few bad bloggers. Unlike the entire basis of the RNC.... (Cough *looking at you WE BUILT IT* Cough)

08/30/2012 06:11:42 PM · #105

Originally posted by escapetooz:

At least this one can be chalked up to a few bad bloggers. Unlike the entire basis of the RNC.... (Cough *looking at you WE BUILT IT* Cough)

Keep smoking that weed Monica... :P This is the state of politics today and both sides reek to high heaven.

08/30/2012 06:16:06 PM · #106

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by escapetooz:
At least this one can be chalked up to a few bad bloggers. Unlike the entire basis of the RNC.... (Cough *looking at you WE BUILT IT* Cough)

Keep smoking that weed Monica... :P This is the state of politics today and both sides reek to high heaven.

I don't doubt that. But seriously... THE WHOLE THEME OF THE CONVENTION was based on an out of context Obama quote. No excuse for that.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

08/30/2012 06:18:31 PM · #107

Originally posted by escapetooz:

I hate being duped as well, which is why when I hear something utterly outrageous about the "other side", I make sure I get the rebuttal and more info from other sources before I react.

Funny you should mention "we built it" because I got in an argument with my wife the day Obama made that speech and I heard people saying he said that. I watched his speech live and I immediately took him to mean "roads and bridges" BUT the whole tone of his speech still imparts this attitude that people can do nothing without the gov't (which actually may be true because the gov't makes it so). Obama did make comments "there's lots of smart people" and "lots of people work hard" - indicating that those who are successful are so because of the government - NOT through their own efforts. So while the "You didn't build that" comment was taken out of the context of the sentence, it was not taken out of context of the speech.

This stupid sound-bite gotcha crap on both sides does nothing but further erode what is already a HUGE clusterf*** of a political process where we, the people have a hard enough time figuring out fact from fiction.

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

08/30/2012 06:21:25 PM · #108

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

I'm not a fan of the GOP, but I don't believe "they" are racist any more than I believe liberals are stupid and that kind of bullshit propaganda doesn't help anyone.

Concur. Demonizing people who hold different opinions only takes the arguments away from policy and into the arena of bad theatrics. Any ideology has it's detractors based on sound reasoning, solid arguments can sway opinion of those in the middle, insults and name calling solidifies the edges and disgust the middle ground.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

08/30/2012 06:23:02 PM · #109

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by escapetooz:
Hmm... I hate being duped. This is really frustrated. I really, really hate when people pull this shit. There are plenty of SUBSTANTIVE reasons to tear down either side, why resort to false out of context stories? At least this one can be chalked up to a few bad bloggers. Unlike the entire basis of the RNC.... (Cough *looking at you WE BUILT IT* Cough)

I hate being duped as well, which is why when I hear something utterly outrageous about the "other side", I make sure I get the rebuttal and more info from other sources before I react.

Funny you should mention "we built it" because I got in an argument with my wife the day Obama made that speech and I heard people saying he said that. I watched his speech live and I immediately took him to mean "roads and bridges" BUT the whole tone of his speech still imparts this attitude that people can do nothing without the gov't (which actually may be true because the gov't makes it so). Obama did make comments "there's lots of smart people" and "lots of people work hard" - indicating that those who are successful are so because of the government - NOT through their own efforts. So while the "You didn't build that" comment was taken out of the context of the sentence, it was not taken out of context of the speech.

This stupid sound-bite gotcha crap on both sides does nothing but further erode what is already a HUGE clusterf*** of a political process where we, the people have a hard enough time figuring out fact from fiction.

I didn't take it to mean that at all but in any case, the rub is Romney made nearly an identical speech referring to Olympians. Smacks of the whole Obamacare/Romneycare issue. AKA: It's ok when we do it, it's not ok when you do it, in fact it's TERRIBLE and I'm going to base my entire campaign on it!

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

08/30/2012 06:28:04 PM · #110

Originally posted by David Ey:

Originally posted by GeneralE:
Amazing how "conservatives" are for no goverment interference with individual liberty except when it comes to a woman's uterus or what people choose to smoke ...

Are you making a bid for the smoking of crack cocaine?

I highly recommend against it, as cocaine can trigger ventricular fibrillation (aka "fatal heart attack") at any dose and is thus a very dangerous drug, but I don't think the government has any business putting people in prison (at taxpayer expense) for choosing to take the risk, particularly when they authorize (and tax) tobacco, a substance known to cause/significantly contribute to something like 400,000 deaths every year in the US alone, not to mention the share of health care costs accounted for by chronic respiratory disease, heart disease, and various cancers (lung, mouth stomach, ...) related to tobacco.

You don't think the government should have the right to control your guns, right? Should they be able to put you in jail should you choose to play Russion Roulette?

Message edited by author 2012-08-30 18:30:08.

08/30/2012 06:28:37 PM · #111

Originally posted by escapetooz:

The republicans have been running on a "get the government out of my way" platform for decades before Obama's little quote. It just, unfortunately, plays nicely into their previously held positions. (And I also think he was talking about bridges and roads).

08/30/2012 06:30:02 PM · #112

Originally posted by BrennanOB:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I'm not a fan of the GOP, but I don't believe "they" are racist any more than I believe liberals are stupid and that kind of bullshit propaganda doesn't help anyone.

Concur. Demonizing people who hold different opinions only takes the arguments away from policy and into the arena of bad theatrics. Any ideology has it's detractors based on sound reasoning, solid arguments can sway opinion of those in the middle, insults and name calling solidifies the edges and disgust the middle ground.

What is this illusive "middle ground" you speak of? :P I fancy myself on the moon if the ground I have to pick is somewhere between Obama fanatics and Romney fanatics. No thanks.

No where did I put that rocket...

08/30/2012 06:32:46 PM · #113

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Both sides do and say many of the same things at one point or another and attack each other for it - just another part of the fog of politics. Still, this is all just hoopla, buzzwords, sloganeering, etc. I believe that most of us on all sides of the spectrum really only want a few things from our government.

On another note regarding smoke - WA State has a legalization initiative on the ballot this November and I have seen only one ad on TV regarding this issue - it's a YES ad featuring a "soccer mom". We just recently privatized liquor sales and the gov't has imposed some ridiculous taxes on consumers to punish us for that, so I hope the legalization thing goes through - especially if Obama is reelected and the economy sinks even further so I can afford to "go on vacation" a few times a week. ;-)

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

08/30/2012 06:38:52 PM · #114

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by escapetooz:
I didn't take it to mean that at all but in any case, the rub is Romney made nearly an identical speech referring to Olympians. Smacks of the whole Obamacare/Romneycare issue. AKA: It's ok when we do it, it's not ok when you do it, in fact it's TERRIBLE and I'm going to base my entire campaign on it!

Both sides do and say many of the same things at one point or another and attack each other for it - just another part of the fog of politics. Still, this is all just hoopla, buzzwords, sloganeering, etc. I believe that most of us on all sides of the spectrum really only want a few things from our government.

On another note regarding smoke - WA State has a legalization initiative on the ballot this November and I have seen only one ad on TV regarding this issue - it's a YES ad featuring a "soccer mom". We just recently privatized liquor sales and the gov't has imposed some ridiculous taxes on consumers to punish us for that, so I hope the legalization thing goes through - especially if Obama is reelected and the economy sinks even further so I can afford to "go on vacation" a few times a week. ;-)

It surprises Portugal doesn't come up more in these types of debates... a country wide case study of the effects of decriminalization. Fascinating.

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

08/30/2012 06:43:12 PM · #115

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

, so I hope the legalization thing goes through - especially if Obama is reelected and the economy sinks even further so I can afford to "go on vacation" a few times a week. ;-)

Good luck on that. Here in California we passed a law but there has been no shift in aggressive FBI raids and threats to land owners having their property seized. It seems Bush and Obama agree that states have no right to decide what they want their people to smoke. I do love the posturing by the parties as if these two candidates and parties are radically different when they agree more with each other than I do with either of them.

08/30/2012 06:44:53 PM · #116

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by escapetooz:
I didn't take it to mean that at all but in any case, the rub is Romney made nearly an identical speech referring to Olympians. Smacks of the whole Obamacare/Romneycare issue. AKA: It's ok when we do it, it's not ok when you do it, in fact it's TERRIBLE and I'm going to base my entire campaign on it!

Both sides do and say many of the same things at one point or another and attack each other for it - just another part of the fog of politics. Still, this is all just hoopla, buzzwords, sloganeering, etc. I believe that most of us on all sides of the spectrum really only want a few things from our government.

On another note regarding smoke - WA State has a legalization initiative on the ballot this November and I have seen only one ad on TV regarding this issue - it's a YES ad featuring a "soccer mom". We just recently privatized liquor sales and the gov't has imposed some ridiculous taxes on consumers to punish us for that, so I hope the legalization thing goes through - especially if Obama is reelected and the economy sinks even further so I can afford to "go on vacation" a few times a week. ;-)

It surprises Portugal doesn't come up more in these types of debates... a country wide case study of the effects of decriminalization. Fascinating.

Portugal does come up. Opponents (in both parties) seem to like to ignore evidence. I think it might pass, but until the feds back off and legalize or let the states decide, who knows how this will work. The "conspiracy nuts" believe the ones in power are firmly in solidarity with the drug cartels and will not tolerate legalization. Considering what we went through with prohibition and all the things going on with this "war on drugs" - the "nuts" are not looking so nutty.

08/30/2012 06:47:13 PM · #117

Originally posted by BrennanOB:

Here in California we passed a law but there has been no shift in aggressive FBI raids and threats to land owners having their property seized. It seems Bush and Obama agree that states have no right to decide what they want their people to smoke. I do love the posturing by the parties as if these two candidates and parties are radically different when they agree more with each other than I do with either of them.

Where is the outrage on the left against Obama on this issue? Where are the cries of hypocrisy? Yeah, nobody wants to criticize their own guy or hold them accountable for fear of giving the other guy an advantage. >:/

08/30/2012 07:09:43 PM · #118

Well, I disagree with the lot of ya. :) I fundamentally disagree with the idea that a society cannot dictate what behaviors are acceptable or unacceptable within that society. It's been going on for as long as societies have existed and is probably part and parcel of why they survive.

Crazy, wacko liberatrians. ;)

08/30/2012 07:13:12 PM · #119

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I don't think anyone said that. I think with the issue of drugs, the law isn't what stops people from using. It only functions to fill prisons and pockets. Drug treatment and harm reduction just makes more sense, at least in the case of personal users. Big time dealers are another story...

08/30/2012 07:16:29 PM · #120

Originally posted by escapetooz:

I think with the issue of drugs, the law isn't what stops people from using.

I think it stops some people from using just fine. Just not everybody. If drugs were legal I know of no argument why their use would go down.

I'm not really interested in a legalized drugs argument. Done to death. I just wanted to say I disagreed with you libertarians in general.

Message edited by author 2012-08-30 19:17:12.

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

08/30/2012 07:23:08 PM · #121

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

If drugs were legal I know of no argument why their use would go down.

How about evidence?

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I'm not really interested in a legalized drugs argument. Done to death. I just wanted to say I disagreed with you libertarians in general.

You're just a man without a party. (pun intended)

Message edited by author 2012-08-30 19:23:23.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

08/30/2012 08:38:24 PM · #122

Apparently, Obama's the most frugal president since Eisenhower... Who knew?

JamesDowning

Sony SLT-A33

Sony SAL-1855 DT 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

08/30/2012 09:35:51 PM · #123

I hate to disagree, but it takes a second to understand what that graph is actually showing. That graph shows percent increase in spending. The percentage increase is really supposed to follow inflation rate and GDP growth in order to properly balance a budget (or at least keep it similar to the previous budget).

In fact, it shows that every presidential term has grown the budget X percentage more than the last budget. If you follow inflation rates or GDP growth rates, the spending should have been nearly flat (0 growth rate) for the last term listed.

I once heard a quote somewhere along the lines of "with statistics, you can make numbers say whatever you want"... and that's pretty true as long as people don't look into the meaning behind the numbers. I'm not arguing that the numbers are good or bad, just saying that the headline is a bit devious.

Message edited by author 2012-08-30 21:36:47.

kawesttex

Apple iPhone 11 Pro

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

08/30/2012 09:38:22 PM · #124

I always heard the saying "Numbers lie and liars use numbers."