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08/24/2012 05:49:10 PM · #176 |
| When did you leave Korea? |
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08/24/2012 06:09:33 PM · #177 |
Originally posted by hopper:
When did you leave Korea? |
I think it was end of Feb or early March.
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08/24/2012 06:26:02 PM · #178 |
If every camera embedded "Date, Time, Time Zone, DST On/Off," I think this would be less of a problem. It would be even better if all the ones with GPS would do it for you (including DST), though this could be a problem around borders.
You know what'd be best, though? If 15 minutes after you wake up, your camera made you eggs. As many as you want, and just the way you like them.
My take on this whole issue: The system, as it is now, is very good.
1. If there is a location listed on the entry, SC uses that location for verification.
2. If there's no location listed on the entry, SC uses your "home" location for verification.
3. If there's no location listed on the entry and no "home" location on your page, it uses EST.
All bases are covered. In your case, option 1 applies, and according to it, you did not follow the rules. Just because the image seems to have been taken "in the future" doesn't (and shouldn't) exclude you from these rules just because it lends some credibility. On the flip side, I could say it makes you less credible; who's to say you didn't do a whole shoot and advance the date by a week after every few shots, and then when you didn't find a proper entry in the "proper" week, you went with the next one thinking you could get away. I'm not accusing you of doing this, nor suggesting you did (nor suggesting to others they do this), but you can see that the same thing that lends credibility (how the hell would I take it in the future?) can also lower credibility. Rules are rules and should be followed. No, that's not my stance in the "real world," but if everyone pushes the rules a little bit here, on a challenge site, it will quickly turn into an expo site. And there are definitely enough of those to go around.
Message edited by author 2012-08-24 18:30:03.
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08/24/2012 06:33:05 PM · #179 |
Originally posted by George:
If every camera embedded "Date, Time, Time Zone, DST On/Off," I think this would be less of a problem. It would be even better if all the ones with GPS would do it for you (including DST), though this could be a problem around borders.
You know what'd be best, though? If 15 minutes after you wake up, your camera made you eggs. As many as you want, and just the way you like them.
My take on this whole issue: The system, as it is now, is very good.
1. If there is a location listed on the entry, SC uses that location for verification.
2. If there's no location listed on the entry, SC uses your "home" location for verification.
3. If there's no location listed on the entry and no "home" location on your page, it uses EST.
All bases are covered. In your case, option 1 applies, and according to it, you did not follow the rules. Just because the image seems to have been taken "in the future" doesn't (and shouldn't) exclude you from these rules just because it lends some credibility. On the flip side, I could say it makes you less credible; who's to say you didn't do a whole shoot and advance the date by a week after every few shots, and then when you didn't find a proper entry in the "proper" week, you went with the next one thinking you could get away. I'm not accusing you of doing this, nor suggesting you did (nor suggesting to others they do this), but you can see that the same thing that lends credibility (how the hell would I take it in the future?) can also lower credibility. Rules are rules and should be followed. No, that's not my stance in the "real world," but if everyone pushes the rules a little bit here, on a challenge site, it will quickly turn into an expo site. And there are definitely enough of those to go around. |
Awesome conclusion: Revise the DQ and DPChallenge will turn into Flickr. |
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08/24/2012 07:24:35 PM · #180 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by hopper:
When did you leave Korea? |
I think it was end of Feb or early March. |
So you consider a place you left six months ago, and have no plans to return to, your "home"? I'm not trying to be a jerk, it's an honest question.
Message edited by author 2012-08-24 19:30:43. |
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08/24/2012 07:29:07 PM · #181 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
But it doesn't actually solve the problem if this DQ stands does it?
If I'm on EST and then go to France (which is what's about to happen) I would still run into time problems if my "home" time in EST isn't taken into account.
This is what I'm trying to say. It's confusing, even for me, but really, if my home time zone isn't taken into account and I shoot too close to the beginning or end of a challenge depending on which direction the time change goes, it's a problem regardless of if home is EST or Korean time.
Is EST more believable as a home time if I run into problems in the future? Because it really does seem it's the Korea aspect that's throwing some people off. |
Korea can be your home all you want. The problem is that you did not declare Korea your home ahead of time. Instead you declared "Earth". I like to do stuff like that myself, but for deciding on whether you broke the rules or not that had to be set to an actual place on Earth, not just the planet name.
Just pick a home location and keep it, keep your camera set to that time zone from now on, no matter where you travel.
**General said they might be changing that rule in the future, so keep your eyes open for that change. But for now you should follow the rules as they are now.
The only real problem you had was not where you were but what you listed for your home location. That's all this boils down to. |
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08/24/2012 08:05:55 PM · #182 |
I have always believed the old adage that "Home is where the heart is"
However, notwithstanding that factor, I have always made sure that when traveling that I changed the time on my camera to that of the area I was visiting.
Mind you, I very seldom submit images to challenges so I guess that mine was an exercise in futility.
Perhaps I am missing the crux of the argument here, but I was under the impression that when you moved around you had to ensure that your camera was set to the time of the location you were in.
Ray |
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08/24/2012 08:08:05 PM · #183 |
Originally posted by hopper:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by hopper:
When did you leave Korea? |
I think it was end of Feb or early March. |
So you consider a place you left six months ago, and have plans to return to, your "home"? I'm not trying to be a jerk, it's an honest question. |
I know you aren't. Like I said, it was my last home. I had my apartment, my job and was there for a solid year. I also bought my camera there. Since I left I haven't been in one spot more any more than 4 weeks, and most only 2 weeks at a time.
I have no current plans to return to Korea, nor my parents homes that are on EST aside from a visit for Christmas. I'm off to France/ other parts of Europe which are a different time zone from either of the locations in question and if I'm not totally broke I will continue on to Brazil where I will get my citizenship (another wrench in the distinction of my "home" huh? hehehe). Everywhere I plan to go will be completely new to me for the next several months to come.
So I'm not sure where that leaves me. As was said, I am more than happy to keep my camera on EST from here on out. I just think this wouldn't even be an issue if it Korea wasn't the "home" in questions. If it was Los Angeles for example and this time zone issue was a problem, I don't think anyone would have expected me to change to EST just because I had left it LA and had been traveling ever since. That's what it seems like to me. The thought that Korea is a foreign land, so it's obviously not my home time zone right? Korea or LA or Timbuktu, I don't think it matters. That was my last official home.
Again it comes down to a judgement call. And it seems there is a subconscious bias going on because it's Seoul and not a US city. I think that's harder to understand as "home" but it's not for me because it was my home. My apartment was all mine. I've never had a room at my dad's, my childhood room at my mom's now has belonged to my sister for 5 years. I visit there about as much as I visit Los Angeles where my boyfriend currently lives (until we leave for France) No one else has to judge their home by where their parents live why should I? I'm an adult. I've been traveling around since I left Korea and now it's expected that EST becomes home base time? Why is that any more valid than keeping Korean time? Or LA time? The world doesn't revolve around EST as much as we'd like to think it does. ;)
I'm agreeing to use EST in the future because it will avoid this confusion. Not because it's my home. If I have any say about it I'll not be living anywhere on the East coast any time soon.
It seems to me I was DQed on a technicality that may or may not even be valid and was meant to stop cheaters. I obviously didn't cheat and the counsel IS looking at my case. So now I'm in limbo in this strange judgement call nether region of DPC awaiting my reassessment results. Is Korea home? Am I required to make EST my home when I lack one?
Seems pretty heavy stuff just to make sure I just snapped the shot in the right time frame. Which I did. That's the spirit of the rule.
Oh well... I always was a bit of a fish out of water. It sure would be nice if they at least waved my suspension though considering the other DQ was a self pull for the sake of my model. And this DQ is dodgy at best. Stranger in a strange land would be perfect for me. :P
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08/24/2012 08:09:40 PM · #184 |
| To be honest, I just don't understand the reason to change the time on the camera when you travel. Most if not all cameras I own have World Time (local time and time zone) on them and if you set the time correctly relative to GMT once, you are all set. |
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08/24/2012 08:12:15 PM · #185 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
I have always believed the old adage that "Home is where the heart is"
However, notwithstanding that factor, I have always made sure that when traveling that I changed the time on my camera to that of the area I was visiting.
Mind you, I very seldom submit images to challenges so I guess that mine was an exercise in futility.
Perhaps I am missing the crux of the argument here, but I was under the impression that when you moved around you had to ensure that your camera was set to the time of the location you were in.
Ray |
That is the crux of the argument. The rules most certainly do not say that.
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I really don't see why this should be an issue. We're not SUPPOSED to be resetting our cameras every time we switch time zones. At least not until we've established residence somewhere else. You should be able to win this on appeal, IMO. Good luck! |
Bear is always the voice of reason in my experience. :)
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08/24/2012 08:15:08 PM · #186 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
That's what it seems like to me. The thought that Korea is a foreign land, so it's obviously not my home time zone right? Korea or LA or Timbuktu, I don't think it matters. That was my last official home.<...> And it seems there is a subconscious bias going on because it's Seoul and not a US city. I think that's harder to understand as "home" but it's not for me because it was my home. |
The SC isn't saying anything close to that. I know I just posted it so you probably haven't read it yet but I'll state it again...
Originally posted by jadin:
Korea can be your home all you want. The problem is that you did not declare Korea your home ahead of time. Instead you declared "Earth". I like to do stuff like that myself, but for deciding on whether you broke the rules or not that had to be set to an actual place on Earth, not just the planet name.
Just pick a home location and keep it, keep your camera set to that time zone from now on, no matter where you travel.
**General said they might be changing that rule in the future, so keep your eyes open for that change. But for now you should follow the rules as they are now.
The only real problem you had was not where you were but what you listed for your home location. That's all this boils down to. |
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08/24/2012 08:16:21 PM · #187 |
Originally posted by bassbone:
To be honest, I just don't understand the reason to change the time on the camera when you travel. Most if not all cameras I own have World Time (local time and time zone) on them and if you set the time correctly relative to GMT once, you are all set. |
World time and local time. Now isn't that something... Nope just checked all the exif info and sadly mine is not that fancy.
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08/24/2012 08:20:46 PM · #188 |
Originally posted by jadin:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
That's what it seems like to me. The thought that Korea is a foreign land, so it's obviously not my home time zone right? Korea or LA or Timbuktu, I don't think it matters. That was my last official home.<...> And it seems there is a subconscious bias going on because it's Seoul and not a US city. I think that's harder to understand as "home" but it's not for me because it was my home. |
The SC isn't saying anything close to that. I know I just posted it so you probably haven't read it yet but I'll state it again...
Originally posted by jadin:
Korea can be your home all you want. The problem is that you did not declare Korea your home ahead of time. Instead you declared "Earth". I like to do stuff like that myself, but for deciding on whether you broke the rules or not that had to be set to an actual place on Earth, not just the planet name.
Just pick a home location and keep it, keep your camera set to that time zone from now on, no matter where you travel.
**General said they might be changing that rule in the future, so keep your eyes open for that change. But for now you should follow the rules as they are now.
The only real problem you had was not where you were but what you listed for your home location. That's all this boils down to. |
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No I didn't say that anyone said that. I said it seems to be a subconscious bias... meaning by definition of the word "subconscious" they have not said it, and could not have said it. In any case I'm not even sure who is on the SC and who isn't, and who is actually in charge of this decision. I wasn't referring to them at all, but the people responding on this thread. It was just a theory not an accusation. I tend to do analyze things to make sense of opinions that don't make sense to me. As I said, I think it would be a lot easier to relate to if my last home was LA, but it wasn't, it was Seoul. Perhaps I should keep my theorizing to myself but hey... I like to chat.
I did read that. Korea is part of earth just as much as Florida and as was stated before, there is no requirement to "declare home" on your profile. I have never seen a DQ be judged my someone's profile info. It comes down to assuming my "home time zone" and image location are one in the same OR assuming if it was not that EST is the "home" we should all adhere to. Neither one of those is the case. It was a simple misunderstanding and could easily be fixed.
Message edited by author 2012-08-24 20:21:54.
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08/24/2012 08:25:21 PM · #189 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Nope just checked all the exif info and sadly mine is not that fancy. |
Well, that stinks Monica. Even my cheapo Panasonic P&S cameras have World Time, but maybe it is a Canon thing not to have it on some models... |
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08/24/2012 08:25:33 PM · #190 |
Anyone with an icon that is unique is on the site counsel.
 jadin Generic male icon.
 escapetoozGeneric female icon.
 karmat Unique female icon.
 scalvert Unique male icon.
I don't know if they still do this so there might be more SC members with generic icons these days but if you see a unique icon you know they are part of the administration.
ETA: I understand what subconscious means. What I am saying is as far as what I'm reading here there is nothing even remotely close to foreign country bias that you are inferring. If you had declared your home as Korea on your profile this would be a non-issue. It's as simple as that.
Message edited by author 2012-08-24 20:28:08. |
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08/24/2012 08:27:28 PM · #191 |
Originally posted by bassbone:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Nope just checked all the exif info and sadly mine is not that fancy. |
Well, that stinks Monica. Even my cheapo Panasonic P&S cameras have World Time, but maybe it is a Canon thing not to have it on some models... |
LOL is that right? Hmmm... guess maybe it is a Canon thing? My Canon Kiss betrayed me! Kiss of death! Darn those Asian branded cameras! ;)
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08/24/2012 08:28:31 PM · #192 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by bassbone:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Nope just checked all the exif info and sadly mine is not that fancy. |
Well, that stinks Monica. Even my cheapo Panasonic P&S cameras have World Time, but maybe it is a Canon thing not to have it on some models... |
LOL is that right? Hmmm... guess maybe it is a Canon thing? My Canon Kiss betrayed me! Kiss of death! Darn those Asian branded cameras! ;) |
Come on over to the dark side...Nikon we'll treat you nicer. |
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08/24/2012 08:28:56 PM · #193 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I really don't see why this should be an issue. We're not SUPPOSED to be resetting our cameras every time we switch time zones. At least not until we've established residence somewhere else. You should be able to win this on appeal, IMO. Good luck! |
Bear is always the voice of reason in my experience. :) |
...and perhaps our friend Bear_Music could show us exactly where exactly in the rules one could find this.
Mind you... my limited experience relative to the rules would have me believe that they truly mean "diddle".
Ray
Message edited by author 2012-08-24 20:30:13. |
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08/24/2012 08:30:27 PM · #194 |
Originally posted by bassbone:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by bassbone:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Nope just checked all the exif info and sadly mine is not that fancy. |
Well, that stinks Monica. Even my cheapo Panasonic P&S cameras have World Time, but maybe it is a Canon thing not to have it on some models... |
LOL is that right? Hmmm... guess maybe it is a Canon thing? My Canon Kiss betrayed me! Kiss of death! Darn those Asian branded cameras! ;) |
Come on over to the dark side...Nikon we'll treat you nicer. |
No way Jose! I used those at work and I did not like em. I'm a Canon gal all the way. Though my starter camera was a Panasonic Hybrid. That was a good little camera. I gave it to a friend and she keeps breaking or losing them and buying the same exact model over and over. ;)
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08/24/2012 08:33:08 PM · #195 |
Ahh what was that I said about going and doing things like knitting in peace... AHHHH! I'm a DPC forum addict again.
I don't know how to quit you. (Imagine the souther accent if you'd like). ;)
Message edited by author 2012-08-24 20:33:38.
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08/24/2012 08:38:40 PM · #196 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I really don't see why this should be an issue. We're not SUPPOSED to be resetting our cameras every time we switch time zones. At least not until we've established residence somewhere else. You should be able to win this on appeal, IMO. Good luck! |
Bear is always the voice of reason in my experience. :) |
...and perhaps our friend Bear_Music could show us exactly where exactly in the rules one could find this. |
- ensure that your camera date and time are correctly set to your home time zone before shooting your entry. If the date(s) recorded in your original image file(s) are not within the specified challenge dates, your entry will be disqualified - NO exceptions! If your entry was taken in a different location than indicated in your profile, please note the location in the submission form so that we can adjust accordingly.
It's pretty straight forward. Don't adjust your time when you travel, simply note your location when you submit (if needed).
Message edited by author 2012-08-24 20:38:58. |
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08/24/2012 08:40:02 PM · #197 |
Originally posted by bassbone:
To be honest, I just don't understand the reason to change the time on the camera when you travel. Most if not all cameras I own have World Time (local time and time zone) on them and if you set the time correctly relative to GMT once, you are all set. |
I never change my camera and have a script I run when I get back home to manipulate the EXIF data with GPS info, forward or rewind the time based on zone, and a bunch of other information. I find it easier to run in script as opposed to changing camera settings. Only found out this is a ban worthy offence without any intent of deceit or maliciousness. |
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08/24/2012 08:40:11 PM · #198 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I really don't see why this should be an issue. We're not SUPPOSED to be resetting our cameras every time we switch time zones. At least not until we've established residence somewhere else. You should be able to win this on appeal, IMO. Good luck! |
Bear is always the voice of reason in my experience. :) |
...and perhaps our friend Bear_Music could show us exactly where exactly in the rules one could find this.
Mind you... my limited experience relative to the rules would have me believe that they truly mean "diddle".
Ray |
I'll stand in for Robert on this one...
Originally posted by TheRules:
YOu Must:
- ensure that your camera date and time are correctly set to your home time zone before shooting your entry. If the date(s) recorded in your original image file(s) are not within the specified challenge dates, your entry will be disqualified - NO exceptions! If your entry was taken in a different location than indicated in your profile, please note the location in the submission form so that we can adjust accordingly. |
Emphasis is mine. She also did note the location of the photo in her submission form. The thing she did not do was specify a well-defined "home" location. Which is not required.
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08/24/2012 08:44:31 PM · #199 |
Hey I'm sorry if that came out condescending, I just meant to point it out because I feel it got skipped over. I assume you know what it means and didn't mean to imply otherwise.
As far as me declaring Korea (which is on Earth). Well that seems to be the latest idea by some but still, I don't think that makes a difference. Surely confused things but simply asking my time zone would have cleared it up.
In any case, you think it's as simple as that, many other people on here that responded did not see it that way and probably wouldn't care even if my profile said Korea because I need to "stop bitching" and deal with it. And my point was that trying to explain my home is Korea in the aftermath, is probably less believable to some than if the city in question was LA, even though conceptually it's the same idea, a home outside of the EST. As in I think I would have gotten more slack in that instance. Did I explain that better this time?
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08/24/2012 08:48:04 PM · #200 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I really don't see why this should be an issue. We're not SUPPOSED to be resetting our cameras every time we switch time zones. At least not until we've established residence somewhere else. You should be able to win this on appeal, IMO. Good luck! |
Bear is always the voice of reason in my experience. :) |
...and perhaps our friend Bear_Music could show us exactly where exactly in the rules one could find this.
Mind you... my limited experience relative to the rules would have me believe that they truly mean "diddle".
Ray |
I'll stand in for Robert on this one...
Originally posted by TheRules:
YOu Must:
- ensure that your camera date and time are correctly set to your home time zone before shooting your entry. If the date(s) recorded in your original image file(s) are not within the specified challenge dates, your entry will be disqualified - NO exceptions! If your entry was taken in a different location than indicated in your profile, please note the location in the submission form so that we can adjust accordingly. |
Emphasis is mine. She also did note the location of the photo in her submission form. The thing she did not do was specify a well-defined "home" location. Which is not required. |
+100000 Thank you kind sir.
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