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08/24/2012 02:44:00 PM · #151 |
Originally posted by cryan:
Honestly, this is getting interesting but......Monica was responsible for not setting the time on her camera.END OF STORY! She didn't think about it and most of the time most of us don't think about it. however with that being said and with her traveling so much it might be a good idea for her to check this. Figuring out what time zone your in while in Europe is pretty darn easy, most of it is in the same zone. The bigger issue for me and one that seems to have gotten lost in this whole thread is the issue of her being banned for multiple DQ's. I've looked at her profile and can find only the one for Smile. Shouldn't we be bothered by the fact that the SC has banned her from entering without any reason to do so? Now I'm sure it was an oversight by the Sc to do this, but it still is a little bothersome to me. |
She self DQ'd (pulled an entry) a while ago. Those count same as a real DQ. |
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08/24/2012 03:03:03 PM · #152 |
Originally posted by bassbone:
Originally posted by cryan:
Honestly, this is getting interesting but......Monica was responsible for not setting the time on her camera.END OF STORY! She didn't think about it and most of the time most of us don't think about it. however with that being said and with her traveling so much it might be a good idea for her to check this. Figuring out what time zone your in while in Europe is pretty darn easy, most of it is in the same zone. The bigger issue for me and one that seems to have gotten lost in this whole thread is the issue of her being banned for multiple DQ's. I've looked at her profile and can find only the one for Smile. Shouldn't we be bothered by the fact that the SC has banned her from entering without any reason to do so? Now I'm sure it was an oversight by the Sc to do this, but it still is a little bothersome to me. |
She self DQ'd (pulled an entry) a while ago. Those count same as a real DQ. |
Ahhhh, didn't know that and she didn't say anything about that either. Then I retract what I said, the SC was right to do this and she really is the only one responsible for this DQ and the ban. It sucks cause I love her work but on the other hand it's only a weeks ban so things could be worse. Thanks Peter. |
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08/24/2012 03:33:27 PM · #153 |
Originally posted by cryan:
Originally posted by bassbone:
Originally posted by cryan:
Honestly, this is getting interesting but......Monica was responsible for not setting the time on her camera.END OF STORY! She didn't think about it and most of the time most of us don't think about it. however with that being said and with her traveling so much it might be a good idea for her to check this. Figuring out what time zone your in while in Europe is pretty darn easy, most of it is in the same zone. The bigger issue for me and one that seems to have gotten lost in this whole thread is the issue of her being banned for multiple DQ's. I've looked at her profile and can find only the one for Smile. Shouldn't we be bothered by the fact that the SC has banned her from entering without any reason to do so? Now I'm sure it was an oversight by the Sc to do this, but it still is a little bothersome to me. |
She self DQ'd (pulled an entry) a while ago. Those count same as a real DQ. |
Ahhhh, didn't know that and she didn't say anything about that either. Then I retract what I said, the SC was right to do this and she really is the only one responsible for this DQ and the ban. It sucks cause I love her work but on the other hand it's only a weeks ban so things could be worse. Thanks Peter. |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
.....
But mine is not a year in the future like Lydia's mine is a time zone issue. With your hypothetical anyone could cheat with anything really.
What is the letter of the rule? As Cory pointed out, the rules say your home time zone. Well I have no home, Korea was my last home, and my camera IS set to that time zone.
I don't have another DQ. As I said the only thing I could possibly think it would be is an entry I removed 3 years ago because there were mean comments about my model. If that's grounds for suspension then I don't want to be in this community and following these nonsense rules. It makes me seriously angry. |
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08/24/2012 04:24:08 PM · #154 |
Monica, Skip and others who feel the same way are most likely responding to what you stated in your first and fourth post. And to be quite honest, it rubbed me the wrong way too when I first read it. Sometimes what we say and the tone it is written in can completely torpedo the message/request (I say written in that one cannot hear the voice inflection and thus lack voice cues to accurately interpret the tone). I did not reply immediately and had the benefit of time to come back later and give a gentler response in post #20.
Again, I am truly sorry that you got DQ'ed. There is no joy in DQ's, only a hard learning experience:-(
Bolded is where I see that some in the community are responding negatively to your posting request.
Originally posted by escapetooz:
So... I lived in Korea... you know, in the future. Then I moved back to the US. Changing my camera time settings did not even occur to me.
So, basically I DID shoot the image in the appropriate time but my EXIF data said I shot it the next morning, which is physically impossible. It's impossible to submit once the challenge is closed. I'm not magical.
Why have such an obviously flawed rule? I know I shot it in time. You know I shot it in time. Even all my computer data says "Date created" in the right time zone, but because of my camera settings, I'm screwed.
When rules become so strict as to become asinine, it's not fun any more.
DPC, fix this rule. It's not cool. |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Because we'd have to submit "earlier". Like... when I'm in Florida the deadline is midnight but when I'm in California the deadline is 9pm. When I was in Korea the deadline would have been sometime in the morning.
ETA: So I shot last minute IN FLORIDA and submitted before midnight and the EXIF data says the photo was taken the following morning. If I'd shot in the middle of the week, it wouldn't have mattered but since I shot last minute, I got screwed.
I move and travel too much to be thinking about this nonsense. This is ridiculous. |
Message edited by author 2012-08-24 16:25:16. |
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08/24/2012 04:40:16 PM · #155 |
I understand that I got snippy. I was upset. But I dont think that's any reason to start personal attacks. I wasn't attacking anyone personally, I was just hurt and frustrated.
As far as moving goes, I use that word with a grain of salt. I haven't been in one place longer than a month, since I left Korea. Move to most people isa static thing. You move houses, you move to a new city and there you stay. That's not the case for me, I keep moving.
Everyone keeps telling me it was my responsibility to "check" my date settings but no one has given me an explanation of where my "home time zone" is and they all keep saying I need to change it in every spot. If that's the case, fine. But it seems that's not the case. What I've heard from those that are looking at the situation objectively is that keeping your exif data to your home time while traveling IS the standard protocol.
All other arguments seem to go along the lines of "It's your fault suck it up and get over it." Without addressing the actual rule. Without addressing why I should have to change my settings as I travel if the rules say home.
To me this comes down to a judgement call of where my home time zone is, not whether I'm irresponsible, because as I said, it doesn't say anywhere in the rules you must change your time settings as you travel. If I need to do that in the future that's fine but I had no reason to believe this prior to now.
Message edited by author 2012-08-24 16:41:51.
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08/24/2012 04:46:10 PM · #156 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Everyone keeps telling me it was my responsibility to "check" my date settings but no one has given me an explanation of where my "home time zone" is |
Wouldn't this look less bad for you if you didn't list your location with something so broad as "The Earth"?
That certainly leaves nothing to work with for anyone without personal, up to the minute info from you......generally not something anyone should expect SC to have to chase down.
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08/24/2012 04:51:35 PM · #157 |
My first DQ came because of something that I didn't understand.
I was using adobe elements and organizer. I shot in jpeg. I knew I needed to save an original copy. I opened the file in elements and did a Save As. Should be perfectly fine. Shouldn't touch the original file.
It did.
Because organizer saved files in sets with the original, it tagged the original.
I was devastated! My best shot so far. I spent about 6 hours looking through any and all rules, forums, etc I could find. It simply said that the download program may change the original. Yet everyone seemed to know that this was a problem.
I fumed and flustered to no avail. It was obvious from the time stamps that nothing had been changed. There were many other ways of looking at it -- surely the SC could see that the original was unchanged.
It boils down to this: The rules are reasonable. And they are stated in the challenge rules (not somewhere else that's hard to find)
ensure that your camera date and time are correctly set to your home time zone before shooting your entry. If the date(s) recorded in your original image file(s) are not within the specified challenge dates, your entry will be disqualified - NO exceptions! If your entry was taken in a different location than indicated in your profile, please note the location in the submission form so that we can adjust accordingly.
Most of us are straight forward, honest people. But there have been a number of people who aren't. Unfortunately, rules are needed to keep the site clean. And honest people get caught up in them. Even though it's an accident, it's still a rule violation. My first DQ I thought was extremely unfair, because people knew about the potential problem, it had been talked about in multiple forums, but since I was new, I didn't know about it. But what it boiled down to was this: I didn't have an unedited original version.
The date rule is actually well thought out and quite reasonable. I would hate to see it change to having to update the clock every time you switch time zones. If people choose to not put in their home time zone, that's the change they're taking. The SC is overworked already -- I think we can all learn the more straightforward rules and go back to struggling with the less obvious ones like burning and dodging limits.
DQs are hard, frustrating, and many times seem unfair. But everyone's doing the best they can, and there's a point where you learn and move on. It took me a couple of days of moaning. :)
Message edited by author 2012-08-24 16:52:37.
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08/24/2012 04:53:45 PM · #158 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Everyone keeps telling me it was my responsibility to "check" my date settings but no one has given me an explanation of where my "home time zone" is |
Wouldn't this look less bad for you if you didn't list your location with something so broad as "The Earth"?
That certainly leaves nothing to work with for anyone without personal, up to the minute info from you......generally not something anyone should expect SC to have to chase down. |
Is sending an e-mail so very hard?
Message edited by author 2012-08-24 16:56:31. |
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08/24/2012 04:54:48 PM · #159 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Everyone keeps telling me it was my responsibility to "check" my date settings but no one has given me an explanation of where my "home time zone" is |
Wouldn't this look less bad for you if you didn't list your location with something so broad as "The Earth"?
That certainly leaves nothing to work with for anyone without personal, up to the minute info from you......generally not something anyone should expect SC to have to chase down. |
Jeb, there's absolutely no requirement for anyone to list their actual home location, and in fact there are pretty good reasons why some folks don't. If the SC had any question, they could well have asked. They are not required to do that, however, and they were within their operating procedure to DQ the image. But, (and you knew there would be one) it seems to me that Monica has done what has been asked as far as setting her camera, and it would seem to me that the SC would be well served to revisit the DQ. The DQ may well stand, but at very least, the suspension seems absurd, given the available information.
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08/24/2012 04:56:20 PM · #160 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Everyone keeps telling me it was my responsibility to "check" my date settings but no one has given me an explanation of where my "home time zone" is |
Wouldn't this look less bad for you if you didn't list your location with something so broad as "The Earth"?
That certainly leaves nothing to work with for anyone without personal, up to the minute info from you......generally not something anyone should expect SC to have to chase down. |
If the rule is "home time zone" and it's obvious I didn't cheat, then yes, I would expect clarification before a DQ. I don't think that's asking too much if the protocol is, as some have said, to leave your camera set to your home time zone. If the home time zone is unknown, then find out. No chasing involved, just a 2 second email.
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08/24/2012 04:59:28 PM · #161 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Everyone keeps telling me it was my responsibility to "check" my date settings but no one has given me an explanation of where my "home time zone" is |
Wouldn't this look less bad for you if you didn't list your location with something so broad as "The Earth"?
That certainly leaves nothing to work with for anyone without personal, up to the minute info from you......generally not something anyone should expect SC to have to chase down. |
Is sending an e-mail so very hard? |
I asked her last night (in the forums because I figured she would see it there quicker) whether it was taken in FL or Korea, and someone (you? perhaps?) replied that that question was basically irrelevant. Had we asked her the same thing in a PM, would it have been relevant then? |
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08/24/2012 05:01:21 PM · #162 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Everyone keeps telling me it was my responsibility to "check" my date settings but no one has given me an explanation of where my "home time zone" is |
Wouldn't this look less bad for you if you didn't list your location with something so broad as "The Earth"?
That certainly leaves nothing to work with for anyone without personal, up to the minute info from you......generally not something anyone should expect SC to have to chase down. |
Is sending an e-mail so very hard? |
I asked her last night (in the forums because I figured she would see it there quicker) whether it was taken in FL or Korea, and someone (you? perhaps?) replied that that question was basically irrelevant. Had we asked her the same thing in a PM, would it have been relevant then? |
Nope, that question still would have been irrelevant. Since the question is where her home time zone is, not where the photo was taken. Or, at least, as I see it that's the issue.
ETA: Perhaps my answer is a bit unfair, as yes, it would have been much better to do this via a PM before the DQ was enacted. It would have opened a valid discussion that may have avoided this silliness.
Message edited by author 2012-08-24 17:05:26. |
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08/24/2012 05:02:41 PM · #163 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
It boils down to this: The rules are reasonable. And they are stated in the challenge rules (not somewhere else that's hard to find)
ensure that your camera date and time are correctly set to your home time zone before shooting your entry. If the date(s) recorded in your original image file(s) are not within the specified challenge dates, your entry will be disqualified - NO exceptions! If your entry was taken in a different location than indicated in your profile, please note the location in the submission form so that we can adjust accordingly.
Most of us are straight forward, honest people. But there have been a number of people who aren't. Unfortunately, rules are needed to keep the site clean. And honest people get caught up in them. Even though it's an accident, it's still a rule violation. My first DQ I thought was extremely unfair, because people knew about the potential problem, it had been talked about in multiple forums, but since I was new, I didn't know about it. But what it boiled down to was this: I didn't have an unedited original version.
The date rule is actually well thought out and quite reasonable. I would hate to see it change to having to update the clock every time you switch time zones. If people choose to not put in their home time zone, that's the change they're taking. The SC is overworked already -- I think we can all learn the more straightforward rules and go back to struggling with the less obvious ones like burning and dodging limits.
DQs are hard, frustrating, and many times seem unfair. But everyone's doing the best they can, and there's a point where you learn and move on. It took me a couple of days of moaning. :) |
Right, so what's my home time zone. The question hinges on that. If it's fair to say Korea is my home time zone then I DID follow the rules and I'm not asking for an exception or a changing of the rules, simply a revisit of my DQ.
The "accident" argument really hinges on the belief that EST is more my home than Korean time. And who is to say that? I've lived in Korea more than anywhere else in the last 4 years and it was my most recent home. It seems very American-time centric to label this as an accident instead of understanding that there are homes elsewhere in the world.
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08/24/2012 05:05:23 PM · #164 |
When I change time zones, I always change the time on the camera, same as the phone, IPad and watch, doesn't seem that difficult.
Message edited by author 2012-08-24 17:06:53. |
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08/24/2012 05:06:26 PM · #165 |
Edward Sharpe says Home is wherever I'm with you.
Ah home... let me come hooooommmmee. Home is wherever I'm with you.
Nanaananana nnaa naa naa naaa.
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08/24/2012 05:06:57 PM · #166 |
Originally posted by jagar:
When I change time zones, I always change the time on the camera, same as phone, IPad and watch, doesn't seem that dificult. |
Whereas I don't... Doesn't seem important, and the rules specified "Home" time zone.
As it is, if you're in California and you shoot immediately after the challenge is announced, then if you've followed the rules, you must be DQ'd since the image would fall outside of the dates of the challenge... NO EXCEPTIONS. ;) Silliness. |
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08/24/2012 05:07:01 PM · #167 |
Originally posted by jagar:
When I change time zones, I always change the time on the camera, same as phone, IPad and watch, doesn't seem that dificult. |
It's not whether it's that difficult. It's if it's required by the rules. Signs point to no.
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08/24/2012 05:08:57 PM · #168 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by jagar:
When I change time zones, I always change the time on the camera, same as phone, IPad and watch, doesn't seem that dificult. |
It's not whether it's that difficult. It's if it's required by the rules. Signs point to no. |
I always thought it was, shows what I know, I'll still do it though, just seems more logic. |
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08/24/2012 05:09:03 PM · #169 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
I understand that I got snippy. I was upset. But I dont think that's any reason to start personal attacks. I wasn't attacking anyone personally, I was just hurt and frustrated.
As far as moving goes, I use that word with a grain of salt. I haven't been in one place longer than a month, since I left Korea. Move to most people isa static thing. You move houses, you move to a new city and there you stay. That's not the case for me, I keep moving.
Everyone keeps telling me it was my responsibility to "check" my date settings but no one has given me an explanation of where my "home time zone" is and they all keep saying I need to change it in every spot. If that's the case, fine. But it seems that's not the case. What I've heard from those that are looking at the situation objectively is that keeping your exif data to your home time while traveling IS the standard protocol.
All other arguments seem to go along the lines of "It's your fault suck it up and get over it." Without addressing the actual rule. Without addressing why I should have to change my settings as I travel if the rules say home.
To me this comes down to a judgement call of where my home time zone is, not whether I'm irresponsible, because as I said, it doesn't say anywhere in the rules you must change your time settings as you travel. If I need to do that in the future that's fine but I had no reason to believe this prior to now. |
If you don't need your date and time settings for other purposes, perhaps if you don't plan on settling down in one spot for awhile the easiest thing would be to set the camera to the DPC server time. The time is listed at the bottom of every page. Plus, you'd never have to do the math to see if you have enough time to do something -- just look at any DPC page and you'll know where it stands.
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08/24/2012 05:12:15 PM · #170 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
If you don't need your date and time settings for other purposes, perhaps if you don't plan on settling down in one spot for awhile the easiest thing would be to set the camera to the DPC server time. The time is listed at the bottom of every page. Plus, you'd never have to do the math to see if you have enough time to do something -- just look at any DPC page and you'll know where it stands. |
That is absolutely the right solution going forward, but it doesn't change the silliness of things. :) |
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08/24/2012 05:21:36 PM · #171 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by vawendy:
If you don't need your date and time settings for other purposes, perhaps if you don't plan on settling down in one spot for awhile the easiest thing would be to set the camera to the DPC server time. The time is listed at the bottom of every page. Plus, you'd never have to do the math to see if you have enough time to do something -- just look at any DPC page and you'll know where it stands. |
That is absolutely the right solution going forward, but it doesn't change the silliness of things. :) |
But it doesn't actually solve the problem if this DQ stands does it?
If I'm on EST and then go to France (which is what's about to happen) I would still run into time problems if my "home" time in EST isn't taken into account.
This is what I'm trying to say. It's confusing, even for me, but really, if my home time zone isn't taken into account and I shoot too close to the beginning or end of a challenge depending on which direction the time change goes, it's a problem regardless of if home is EST or Korean time.
Is EST more believable as a home time if I run into problems in the future? Because it really does seem it's the Korea aspect that's throwing some people off.
Message edited by author 2012-08-24 17:22:55.
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08/24/2012 05:22:44 PM · #172 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by vawendy:
If you don't need your date and time settings for other purposes, perhaps if you don't plan on settling down in one spot for awhile the easiest thing would be to set the camera to the DPC server time. The time is listed at the bottom of every page. Plus, you'd never have to do the math to see if you have enough time to do something -- just look at any DPC page and you'll know where it stands. |
That is absolutely the right solution going forward, but it doesn't change the silliness of things. :) |
But it doesn't actually solve the problem if this DQ stands does it?
If I'm on EST and then go to France (which is what's about to happen) I would still run into time problems if my "home" time in EST isn't taken into account.
This is what I'm trying to say. It's confusing, even for me, but really, if my home time zone isn't taken into account and I shoot too close to the beginning or end of a challenge depending on which direction the time change goes, it's a problem.
Is EST more believable as a home time if I run into problems in the future? Because it really does seem it's the Korea aspect that's throwing some people off. |
Nah, the point is if you're set to EST there's no way to shoot outside the challenge dates. |
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08/24/2012 05:26:18 PM · #173 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by vawendy:
If you don't need your date and time settings for other purposes, perhaps if you don't plan on settling down in one spot for awhile the easiest thing would be to set the camera to the DPC server time. The time is listed at the bottom of every page. Plus, you'd never have to do the math to see if you have enough time to do something -- just look at any DPC page and you'll know where it stands. |
That is absolutely the right solution going forward, but it doesn't change the silliness of things. :) |
But it doesn't actually solve the problem if this DQ stands does it?
If I'm on EST and then go to France (which is what's about to happen) I would still run into time problems if my "home" time in EST isn't taken into account.
This is what I'm trying to say. It's confusing, even for me, but really, if my home time zone isn't taken into account and I shoot too close to the beginning or end of a challenge depending on which direction the time change goes, it's a problem.
Is EST more believable as a home time if I run into problems in the future? Because it really does seem it's the Korea aspect that's throwing some people off. |
Nah, the point is if you're set to EST there's no way to shoot outside the challenge dates. |
Oh yea... woops. Got it. Time changes make my brains hurt.
See. EST -centric! :P
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08/24/2012 05:36:41 PM · #174 |
You guys want me on EST from here on out, suits me just fine. I'll go change my camera right now.
Doesn't change the fact that Korea was my last home base and I obviously didn't cheat. Again that's not asking for an exception, it's asking to review my DQ as I followed the rules as written.
That's all that needs to be said and boy do I wish I'd made my case more eloquently in the beginning because trolls really like to come around when people are upset. No more posting when upset. Got it.
Anyway, I'm gunna go finish some music related crafts I've been working on and dream of my first trip to Europe. Plan to take lots of pictures so you all can see my annoying face a few hundred more times. I've not exhausted the self portrait possibilities, not by a long shot. :P
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08/24/2012 05:39:25 PM · #175 |
| MY cameras are set to EST. I don't change 'em when I go to the west coast. So they always show me "DPC Time", and if they say the shot's within the challenge timeframe, it IS. No calculation needed. But of course, I actually live in the EST zone, so it's a no-brainer for me. But then, arguably, so do you, Monica :-) With no fixed address, your "home" may's well be where the 'rents live, eh? |
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