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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Validation discussion. Keep it civil please.
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Showing posts 151 - 169 of 169, (reverse)
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 08/17/2012 06:26:57 PM · #151
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
There is little use in teaching people how to do something the bizarro way to conform to some ruleset when the best practice for the genre is completely different. If we want to teach star trails we need to allow for multiple exposures and linking the trails because this is absolutely the best practice method for doing such an image.

This is not a case of restricting the ideal method to achieve a particular result. The genre is time-lapse, and was specifically prohibited here. If we want to teach star trails or other time lapse, an appropriate special rule would be used to enable best practices.


That's fine. You asked. I gave a specific rule that would allow star trails and not too much else (at least not too much with good results). If we only want star trails in star trail challenges with a special flag, then so be it. When people ask then about doing star trails in normal challenges we should tell them not to bother because you can't do it the right way. It would be better to learn it with best practices and not enter it in a challenge.
 08/17/2012 06:31:24 PM · #152
Where's Art when I need him? Can I special order a shot of Shannon? I'm picturing duo-tone. Blue and red. A head shot. Below it we can have "SC" and then the tagline "No, we can't." It's catchy and reminds me of something I can't put my finger on... .;)
 08/17/2012 07:25:07 PM · #153
While Don's solution mightn't help the star trails conundrum and doesn't address the ingenuity of fools, it makes so much more sense than the current rule set that I have to add my support for it - in fact I don't know why it wasn't the obvious way to go from the beginning.
 08/17/2012 07:42:00 PM · #154
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm picturing duo-tone. Blue and red. A head shot ... It's catchy and reminds me of something I can't put my finger on... .;)

???
08/17/2012 07:57:43 PM · #155
I think it's pretty funny that it's Don with a sensible solution for HDR. I don't think he has done an HDR in his life and I think he thought it stood for "hazy, dreary, and retro"... :)
 08/17/2012 08:16:17 PM · #156
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I think it's pretty funny that it's Don with a sensible solution for HDR. I don't think he has done an HDR in his life and I think he thought it stood for "hazy, dreary, and retro"... :)


I was wondering what it stood for! thanks!
 08/17/2012 09:07:41 PM · #157
08/17/2012 09:16:51 PM · #158
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I think it's pretty funny that it's Don with a sensible solution for HDR. I don't think he has done an HDR in his life and I think he thought it stood for "hazy, dreary, and retro"... :)
yah as if he wouldn'ta P-ribboned every hdr image around if that were true ;-)
 08/17/2012 10:42:58 PM · #159
Originally posted by scalvert:

This is not a case of restricting the ideal method to achieve a particular result. The genre is time-lapse, and was specifically prohibited here. If we want to teach star trails or other time lapse, an appropriate special rule would be used to enable best practices.


This is why we will never have any substantive positive change, and also why I have no interest in trying to propose a solution. A special rules challenge will never happen. We said that we were reserving panos for "special rules." That was at the same time we introduced multi-image Advanced. It's never happened, and likely never will.
Truly, we are putting ourselves in this incredibly difficult position because we don't want to let go of control. If we simplified the rules, and I mean greatly simplified, we would be so much better off. Sure, it would mean that folks could do more, and we might not like some of the results, but in the end we should let the voters decide. It's still possible to control to the level where we would exclude complete image-melding abominations, without eliminating all the incredible techniques that we now exclude just because we are afraid of losing control.
08/17/2012 11:17:19 PM · #160
Originally posted by kirbic:
A special rules challenge will never happen. We said that we were reserving panos for "special rules." That was at the same time we introduced multi-image Advanced. It's never happened, and likely never will.

As you well know, the decision to run Expert Editing or have a special-rules panorama or time-lapse challenge rests entirely with Langdon. We also announced at the time (December 2007) that there would be no more Expert Editing challenges until those rules were amended and renamed, yet we've had 15 Expert challenges so far this year without any change to the rules.
 08/18/2012 03:06:13 AM · #161
Originally posted by MattO:
.

use ANY editing tool to move, remove or duplicate any element of your photograph that would change a typical viewer̢۪s description of the photograph (aside from color or crop), even if the tool is otherwise legal, and regardless of whether you intended the change when the photograph was taken.

This is something that is so subjective. To me and to others obviously, the photographer removed something that would change the typical viewers description of the photograph.

Matt


And yet I consider myself a typical viewer and I don't feel the removal of the people would change my description of the photograph. So yeah, it's subjective. I suppose that's why the site council have a democratic majority vote on DQ's.

I have to say, reading all the validation posts over the last few years has really changed my outlook on what's allowed and what isn't.
08/18/2012 05:19:59 AM · #162
Originally posted by lawrysimm:

And yet I consider myself a typical viewer and I don't feel the removal of the people would change my description of the photograph. .....


And yet, MY first reaction would have been: "Dang, don't you just wish you could disappear those people from there?" So to ME, they were a pretty major (unwanted) element!!!!
 08/18/2012 06:19:15 AM · #163
Beetle probably knows me better than anyone else on this site and knows for a fact that I would find this a major element.

There are (and have been instances) were I will either wait for extended periods of time in order that people will get out of the shot, or simply send my friend "Bubba" to ask them to move.

For me...this is a major element, particularly when we consider the colour of the shoes worn.

Mind you, there was one instance where the tynes on a forklift were cloned out and that was not considered a "Major Element". I did not agree with that since to me it made a major difference to what the viewing audience would see.

I also recall an image where the time elements were totally disregarded, something against the rules and nothing happened. All in all, I am NOT impressed since (from a personal perspective) as there is seemingly no consistency is the application of the rules.

Ray

Message edited by author 2012-08-18 06:28:12.
 08/18/2012 11:10:38 AM · #164
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by kirbic:
A special rules challenge will never happen. We said that we were reserving panos for "special rules." That was at the same time we introduced multi-image Advanced. It's never happened, and likely never will.

As you well know, the decision to run Expert Editing or have a special-rules panorama or time-lapse challenge rests entirely with Langdon. We also announced at the time (December 2007) that there would be no more Expert Editing challenges until those rules were amended and renamed, yet we've had 15 Expert challenges so far this year without any change to the rules.


Yes, the ultimate decision and the work of implementation rests with L, but (and you knew there was a "but") if the SC were of one mind and went to L with a coherent proposal, it could very likely be made to happen. The SC needs to act as a team in order to drive positive change, not as a group of free agents.
08/19/2012 08:36:52 AM · #165
"The presence of people in an image is considered useful for providing a sense of scale." You will read that in any publication on photography. Without any other point of reference in the image the presence a person literally becomes a key feature.
e.g. In this image the people are essential for judging the scale of the cathedral.
 08/20/2012 11:43:54 AM · #166
*Dead horse beating warning*

OK, I have to admit to a morbid (pun intended) curiousity. The image with the eyelet holes dodged/burned in around the mouth has not been DQ'd - therefore this level of dodge/burn is considered a legal DPC Advanced editing edit? Although not *required* to be validated, the image in question has been the subject of some discussion and it's continued status indicates the preceding sentence is correct. Anyone?

*Yeah, go on, chase me with a stick....*
 08/20/2012 11:52:15 AM · #167
Originally posted by pamb:
...the image in question has been the subject of some discussion and it's continued status indicates the preceding sentence is correct.

No, it doesn't. A validation would indicate it's legal, and a DQ would indicate it's not. Unless/until one of those two things happen, there is no indication either way.
 08/20/2012 01:48:59 PM · #168
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by pamb:
...the image in question has been the subject of some discussion and it's continued status indicates the preceding sentence is correct.

No, it doesn't. A validation would indicate it's legal, and a DQ would indicate it's not. Unless/until one of those two things happen, there is no indication either way.


So given that it finished in 6th place, are we to assume that a validation question never arose?
 08/20/2012 01:53:04 PM · #169
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by pamb:
...the image in question has been the subject of some discussion and it's continued status indicates the preceding sentence is correct.

No, it doesn't. A validation would indicate it's legal, and a DQ would indicate it's not. Unless/until one of those two things happen, there is no indication either way.


So given that it finished in 6th place, are we to assume that a validation question never arose?


it did, Samantha_T stated so in another thread, it has to have been over week now since she submitted proof.



Message edited by author 2012-08-20 13:55:19.
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