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07/17/2012 04:38:20 PM · #1 |
Part two in the photoshop silliness. (part one was let's learn photoshop - curves)
It seems like there's so much you can do in photoshop, yet I'm in my little rut of doing the same things over and over again without learning something new. So I thought about picking a topic and see if we can teach each other what we know. This time it's something simple -- how to select things.
There's a number of ways of selecting things in photoshop, and I tend to really only use one way -- the quick selection tool.
1. I simply use the quick selection tool to select the area I want.
2. Each time I click and drag it adds to the area.
3. I hold down the alt key and drag to remove part from the selected area.
4. After I select, I click on "refine edge" and play with the smooth and feather options to get a cleaner edge.
The only tip that I know that's not obvious is: if you're using a selection as a mask (perhaps to lighten the background without touching the subject), sometimes it can be too sharp of a difference between the part that's masked and not masked. If you select the mask, you can set a gaussian blur on the mask itself (not the subject or the background) and make a better transition.
So what am I missing? How do you select things? Is there anything you can teach us? Wonderful tips and tricks? How do you approach it? Or does everyone just use the same selection method?
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07/17/2012 05:03:14 PM · #2 |
I usually use the "regular" selection tools (rectangle, lasso, irregular polygon, etc.) to rough out an irregular selection, then save the selection and refine the edges using the pantbrush/eraser tools on the mask/alpha channel. You can use wither a soft- or hard-edged brush of whatever size is needed depending on the type/complexity of the edges. A tablet/stylus combination really helps out with this!
See the three different tutorials here on using Layer Masks for related information ... a Layer Mask is saved with and unique to and Adjustment Layer, while an Alpha Channel (saved selection) applies to the entire document. Note, however, that you can load a Layer Mask as a selection and then save it out to an Alpha Channel if you want to use it for something other than limiting the effect of the associated Adjustment Layer.
Message edited by author 2012-07-17 17:05:15. |
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07/17/2012 05:10:40 PM · #3 |
im bad at selections. i like painting them on with the quick mask tool. if it's something that needs super fine tuning i'll just zoom in to 300 percent, put on some good music, take the polygonal lasoo tool and spend a few hours doing it pixel at a time.
edit: i would like to use the regular lasso tool while doing this, but for some reason the lasso tool doesn't "follow" my mouse as I move out of the frame. the polygonal lasso tool will follow my cursor as I select large areas while zoomed in. anyone know how to work around this with the lasso tool?
Message edited by author 2012-07-17 17:13:51. |
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07/17/2012 05:29:17 PM · #4 |
Im a big fan of copy to new layer tool. Make your rough selection and copy. Rinse and repeat. It allows you to quick select without it involving all those pixels that have nothing to do with what you are trying to get at.
Another good one is to look over in IMAGE>MODE>RGB or CMYK and look in channels, 70% of the time the part you are trying to select out will be much more clearly separated from the background in one or those channels. Copy that channel and control Z (or history tab) back to where you were (to get rid of any mode changes you needed to make to get the right channel, and restore the working image) and create a mask and paste the channel you copied into the new mask.
Message edited by author 2012-07-17 17:30:26. |
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07/17/2012 05:36:58 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by LanndonKane:
... for some reason the lasso tool doesn't "follow" my mouse as I move out of the frame. the polygonal lasso tool will follow my cursor as I select large areas while zoomed in. anyone know how to work around this with the lasso tool? |
If you drag the lasso tool outside of the frame boundary it will still continue to extend the selection along the edge where you exit the frame, in the direction you move; when you come back into the frame it should resume selecting at that point. |
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07/17/2012 05:41:56 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by LanndonKane:
... for some reason the lasso tool doesn't "follow" my mouse as I move out of the frame. the polygonal lasso tool will follow my cursor as I select large areas while zoomed in. anyone know how to work around this with the lasso tool? |
If you drag the lasso tool outside of the frame boundary it will still continue to extend the selection along the edge where you exit the frame, in the direction you move; when you come back into the frame it should resume selecting at that point. |
but i want to see what im selecting when i drag the lasoo tool outside the frame boundary. the polygonal selection tool will move the frame boundary to follow your cursor wherever you go, so you can see what you're selecting. when selecting big areas when zoomed in, for example, i don't want to come back inside the frame. i might need to keep moving sideways and continue the selection for a long way.
Message edited by author 2012-07-17 17:42:20. |
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07/17/2012 05:49:25 PM · #7 |
| It is selecting everything up to the edge of the frame (the "marching ants" crawl along the edge of the image) -- you can't select something outside of that. It may be that you'll have to work with a more zoomed-out view when using that tool. |
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07/17/2012 05:54:03 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
It is selecting everything up to the edge of the frame (the "marching ants" crawl along the edge of the image) -- you can't select something outside of that. It may be that you'll have to work with a more zoomed-out view when using that tool. |
sorry, im talking about DRAWING the selection. when i draw the selection (havent actually clicked to make it a selection yet), i'd like to draw past the frame boundary and have the window follow me. is this doable with the lasso tool? i know the polygonal does it. |
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07/17/2012 05:55:29 PM · #9 |
| also, i just tried it, and it's allowing me to select things that are not visible (i.e. outside the frame boundary). i just can't see what im doing while im drawing the selection because the window isn't following my cursor. |
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07/17/2012 05:58:16 PM · #10 |
| When I use the lasso tool it's a click-and-drag operation, holding down the mouse button until I return to the starting point and "close" the selection, making it active. I think if you drag it outside the image boundary the window will scroll with you, but the selection itself (and the temporary marquee) will be constrained to the actual image area. Another possibility is that your version is newer enough than mine that it works differently. |
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07/17/2012 06:03:34 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
When I use the lasso tool it's a click-and-drag operation, holding down the mouse button until I return to the starting point and "close" the selection, making it active. I think if you drag it outside the image boundary the window will scroll with you, but the selection itself (and the temporary marquee) will be constrained to the actual image area. Another possibility is that your version is newer enough than mine that it works differently. |
i use cs5, i don't have this type of action. |
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07/18/2012 08:40:57 AM · #12 |
for selections it depends on what I am trying to accomplish or hows its made up. if trying to replace a blown sky its easiest to select by a color range, set the tolerance and remove the area i dont want to be selected, invert the selection and then create a mask.
if im trying to replace a whole background or select and object then i loosely trace the object with the wand and then refine the edge and add a bit of feather to blend it better, and then create a mask.
to add, i ALWAYS use masks. its makes things much easier to add back in or remove if you missed a removal area or took out something you shouldn't, selections can be a PITA so its best not to have to repeat the process.
Message edited by author 2012-07-18 08:42:10. |
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07/18/2012 08:52:20 AM · #13 |
If I'm intending to do an adjustment on a selection, I avoid doing an explicit selection if I can. There are a couple ways to do this:
- For some things we can use an adjustment layer, then work on the layer mask and layer opacity to control where and how much of the adjustment gets applied.
- For those things that can't be applied as an adjustment layer, duplicate the base layer, make the adjustment, then use the layer mask and layer opacity (and blend mode if appropriate) to adjust the effect.
When cloning out spots, as in restoring a photo, I clone to a new layer, with source set to the original. That way, I can reverse as much of the process as I need to, without worrying about how many history states I have. During cloning operations, you can run out of history states awfully fast.
The above methods have the advantage of being non-destructive. You can turn them off with one click.
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07/18/2012 09:47:49 AM · #14 |
Not (normally) good for selecting specific objects but a VERY good way of selecting just the bright / dark / any combination areas in a shot is to use luminosity masks. You can even break the brights / darks up into more sections so you control a more specific tonal range then just the brightest 50% of the image for instance. Especially good for landscape editing but can be used on any shot.
Not sure but I think Tony Kuyper came up with this and his website gives details on how to do it: Tony Kuyper Photography Website.
Other Photogs have been using it for a while and also have tutorials such as Hougaard Malan Website.
Once you have these selections it can be used for just about anything where masks are used. You can decrease the brightness of the light areas using curves, you can tint various brightness levels different colours (yellows for blown suns, blues for cool shadows), blend different exposures for a manual HDR...
The other great thing about these luminosity masks is that they are self-feathering so you donĂ¢€™t need to play with the feather setting.
I use this on just about every image I edit these days and Tony Kyper's Triple Play (on his website) is amazing. |
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07/18/2012 10:12:04 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by Silent-Shooter:
Not (normally) good for selecting specific objects but a VERY good way of selecting just the bright / dark / any combination areas in a shot is to use luminosity masks. You can even break the brights / darks up into more sections so you control a more specific tonal range then just the brightest 50% of the image for instance. Especially good for landscape editing but can be used on any shot.
Not sure but I think Tony Kuyper came up with this and his website gives details on how to do it: Tony Kuyper Photography Website.
Other Photogs have been using it for a while and also have tutorials such as Hougaard Malan Website.
Once you have these selections it can be used for just about anything where masks are used. You can decrease the brightness of the light areas using curves, you can tint various brightness levels different colours (yellows for blown suns, blues for cool shadows), blend different exposures for a manual HDR...
The other great thing about these luminosity masks is that they are self-feathering so you donĂ¢€™t need to play with the feather setting.
I use this on just about every image I edit these days and Tony Kyper's Triple Play (on his website) is amazing. |
luminosity masks are awesome. I remember to work with them on landscapes -- I need to think of them other times, as well. I know how great the work with the landscapes, but I haven't experimented enough on other shots.
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07/18/2012 10:19:35 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
If I'm intending to do an adjustment on a selection, I avoid doing an explicit selection if I can. There are a couple ways to do this:
- For some things we can use an adjustment layer, then work on the layer mask and layer opacity to control where and how much of the adjustment gets applied.
- For those things that can't be applied as an adjustment layer, duplicate the base layer, make the adjustment, then use the layer mask and layer opacity (and blend mode if appropriate) to adjust the effect.
When cloning out spots, as in restoring a photo, I clone to a new layer, with source set to the original. That way, I can reverse as much of the process as I need to, without worrying about how many history states I have. During cloning operations, you can run out of history states awfully fast.
The above methods have the advantage of being non-destructive. You can turn them off with one click. |
You're right -- I avoid specific selections, and work primarily on masks. But then I realized that I was using the paintbrush and doing a lot of very tedious brushing on things that would have been easy to select and then turn into a mask. I'm not sure whether this is better or not. I'll have to play a bit more.
Question on masks: when you alt click on the mask, it shows you in b&w what is masked and what isn't. However, it doesn't show this superimposed on the image, so you can't really tell how accurate you've been. Is there any way, after you create the mask, that you can see what you've masked and what you haven't with the actual image itself? (like when you use quick mask to select?)
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07/18/2012 10:30:22 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Question on masks: when you alt click on the mask, it shows you in b&w what is masked and what isn't. However, it doesn't show this superimposed on the image, so you can't really tell how accurate you've been. Is there any way, after you create the mask, that you can see what you've masked and what you haven't with the actual image itself? (like when you use quick mask to select?) |
View channels instead of layers. There's a mask channel. Make that active and you can see what you're painting. |
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07/18/2012 11:06:16 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by vawendy:
Question on masks: when you alt click on the mask, it shows you in b&w what is masked and what isn't. However, it doesn't show this superimposed on the image, so you can't really tell how accurate you've been. Is there any way, after you create the mask, that you can see what you've masked and what you haven't with the actual image itself? (like when you use quick mask to select?) |
View channels instead of layers. There's a mask channel. Make that active and you can see what you're painting. |
Awesome!! Bless you, bear! I've been wanting that for so long, but haven't bothered looking or asking (I'm usually in the throes of last minute editing when I'm thinking about it. :)
You can have some of my leftover dessert from yesterday's shoot. :)
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07/18/2012 12:03:40 PM · #19 |
| Wow. I have no idea how to do any of this stuff! I'd love to see how to do some of these things but in the meantime I will mark this thread and review it later to see if I can figure any of it out. |
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07/18/2012 12:56:02 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
View channels instead of layers. There's a mask channel. Make that active and you can see what you're painting. |
Yes, this is what I was referring to when I mentioned using the Alpha Channel (mask) previously ... you can create as many masks as you need, but each channel adds significantly to the file size. When you make a selection with any of the tool and then save it, what is actually saved is a new Alpha Channel ...
If you are painting on a mask, note that you can change the color of the mask overlay, and that it's sometimes easier to see what you're doing if you activate (make visible) only one of the color channels (e.g. Green or Red) plus the mask.
Message edited by author 2012-07-18 12:58:14. |
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07/18/2012 02:57:59 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
it's sometimes easier to see what you're doing if you activate (make visible) only one of the color channels (e.g. Green or Red) plus the mask. |
The red is IMHO a far better choice, because the green blends in so much with images of this green world. The red on 50% opacity makes working on masks pretty easy. |
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07/18/2012 03:00:59 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
View channels instead of layers. There's a mask channel. Make that active and you can see what you're painting. |
Yes, this is what I was referring to when I mentioned using the Alpha Channel (mask) previously ... you can create as many masks as you need, but each channel adds significantly to the file size. When you make a selection with any of the tool and then save it, what is actually saved is a new Alpha Channel ...
If you are painting on a mask, note that you can change the color of the mask overlay, and that it's sometimes easier to see what you're doing if you activate (make visible) only one of the color channels (e.g. Green or Red) plus the mask. |
Oops -- missed that. I thought you were talking about the mask itself. I didn't quite catch the channel bit. I'll go back and reread. Thanks! :)
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07/18/2012 03:36:44 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Oops -- missed that. I thought you were talking about the mask itself. I didn't quite catch the channel bit. I'll go back and reread. Thanks! :) |
No problem -- Photoshop contributed to the confusion since Alpha Channel, Mask, and Saved Selection in effect all mean the same thing, and then with the Layer Mask being very similar but not exactly the same, even though it sounds like it should be.
Message edited by author 2012-07-18 15:37:27. |
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07/19/2012 05:04:07 AM · #24 |
Just remembered - another selecting tool I use often is the SELECT > COLOR RANGE option. Came highly recommended by  Judi in one of her other photoshopping threads. You can move the "fuzziness" slider to be more or less acurate with the colour you have selected.
I have had a few problems with this before - and then realised that I was looking at the image on the screen but had one of the lower layers selected (on the bar on the right). It will only select the color of the layer that is actually selected at the time. (Hope that makes sense) |
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08/20/2012 03:13:18 PM · #25 |
Theres the easy way, like you do it wendy. I may use smart radius and decontaminate colors just to help out abit in CS5.
Then there's the hard way.
Go to Channels, pick out most contrasty.
If clean background. go to calculations and double up on that layer in a new alpha channel. paint in everything you want at black and everything not to white. use levels to bring out the contrast to make things easier. once done, copy selection to original layer, and youre done.
If youre not on a plain background. the process is similar, but you'll find using LAB mode a bit easier to work with. |
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