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06/08/2012 12:36:18 AM · #1 |
Is there a mistake here? I don't quite get basic editing for this challenge.
Even if people wanted to avoid expert editing, it still would have been fun to get some really creative, funky shots that tried to fool the viewer. That's almost impossible in basic editing.
Please -- can we rethink this and at least change it to advanced editing? What a shame for such a wonderful challenge to be so limited. |
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06/08/2012 12:37:17 AM · #2 |
| I was thinking the same thing as well, and I like expert now, had a lot of fun with it in "Harsh". |
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06/08/2012 12:39:24 AM · #3 |
| I usually like basic and minimal editing but I have to agree here. The man was a sic-fi writer, how does that not scream at least advanced editing? I'm not one to complain about this stuff usually but this one missed the boat a little. |
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06/08/2012 12:39:56 AM · #4 |
I sent in a ticket to Langdon making these points. We'll see...
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06/08/2012 12:49:17 AM · #5 |
| Basic here doesn't make sense... |
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06/08/2012 01:21:31 AM · #6 |
Agreed...
Any links to a list of book/short story titles?
I found a few but they seem to be pretty small and I know he did more than just a few..
Then again, I've only looked for about 5 minutes before giving up. Lol. |
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06/08/2012 01:28:23 AM · #7 |
| I have converted to the purist orthodoxy and disagree. I sent a ticket to Langdon asking for minimal. Cropping is the work of the devil. |
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06/08/2012 01:29:49 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Cropping is the work of the devil. |
LOL! |
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06/08/2012 02:35:02 AM · #9 |
| List of his short stories |
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06/08/2012 03:34:32 AM · #10 |
| I will add to the refrain: why Basic? This was one challenge that demands at the least the advanced set of rules. |
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06/08/2012 03:47:19 AM · #11 |
| I'm a big lover of Sci-Fi, and I generally agree with it being changed. But, consider that Sci-Fi at that time was about the exploration of the unknown, creation, taking what little there was and making it into something more, something extravagant and amazing. The unknown is a wonderful place to play. |
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06/08/2012 03:51:32 AM · #12 |
It's seems to me that in trying to show that the masses are listened to (after all the debate about expert editing and the amount of challenges we had using that ruleset) that actual thought goes out the window.
In trying to please people once again a challenge has been pretty much KO'd by the ruleset chosen for it. The only thing that's needed here is a little forethought on the subject matter and most often the Ruleset speaks for itself surely? Or at the very least certain rulesets are an obvious poor choice and so should be eliminated as a choice for said challenge.
Advance would have been fun, expert would have been even better and seen some amazing entries I'm sure, and there seems to be more and more people getting to grips with expert and producing some really good results. As per mikes recent thread I think it's about time for a shake up on the rulesets and also I think a couple of people should be given the job of quickly debating challenge topics and approving a Ruleset based on reason rather than what's been moaned about in the forum most recently - you won't please all the people all the time but at least use some solid reasoning behind a given challenge Ruleset. |
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06/08/2012 04:11:39 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by Mark-A:
It's seems to me that in trying to show that the masses are listened to (after all the debate about expert editing and the amount of challenges we had using that ruleset) that actual thought goes out the window.
In trying to please people once again a challenge has been pretty much KO'd by the ruleset chosen for it. The only thing that's needed here is a little forethought on the subject matter and most often the Ruleset speaks for itself surely? Or at the very least certain rulesets are an obvious poor choice and so should be eliminated as a choice for said challenge.
Advance would have been fun, expert would have been even better and seen some amazing entries I'm sure, and there seems to be more and more people getting to grips with expert and producing some really good results. As per mikes recent thread I think it's about time for a shake up on the rulesets and also I think a couple of people should be given the job of quickly debating challenge topics and approving a Ruleset based on reason rather than what's been moaned about in the forum most recently - you won't please all the people all the time but at least use some solid reasoning behind a given challenge Ruleset. |
In some ways I agree, in others I diverge. The limitations that are placed upon us are what really make us be so creative and remarkable. I love the difficulty of accomplishing something without using the place function. There are those here who do expert splendidly, and then there is a steep dropoff. I love the products of some of the top results, but beyond that, so many seem trite and cheap, like a Daily Mail photo that's been haphazardly shopped, complete with missed lighting and perspective.
I don't think a couple folks selecting the direction of DPC much different than Langdon, and I think this challenge would benefit from something like Advanced, but not Expert. I'm not interested in Expert here as I foresee many horrible and haphazard placements of an "alien" upon a scene. The dropoff that I see in quality from top 5 to the rest of the pack in expert editing is a bit depressing, and frankly discourages me from voting. |
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06/08/2012 04:16:56 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
There are those here who do expert splendidly, and then there is a steep dropoff. |
I'd challenge that assertion (and accept that I might be in the dropped-off category). I think there are many entries in the expert challenges that take advantage of expert rules in very subtle ways, but that would be DQ'd in advanced.
eta: I'd add that there are also plenty of top entries in expert challenges that would qualify under advanced or sometimes basic.
Message edited by author 2012-06-08 04:19:26. |
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06/08/2012 04:26:56 AM · #15 |
The same can be said about the drop off in other challenges too though not always as evident but certainly it's there.
But I do feel that poorly considered rulesets that discourage creativity where more than in camera creativity is called for will only lower entries in both numbers and quality. In turn I think this could hurt the sites popularity as more people will hit sites like 500px and worth1k. A small group of people whose job it is to discuss the merits of a given challenge using the various rulesets allows at least for some discussion between them which could ensure "errors" like this one are not encountered - I say errors but obviously that's just my opinion.
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06/08/2012 05:01:12 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
There are those here who do expert splendidly, and then there is a steep dropoff. |
I'd challenge that assertion (and accept that I might be in the dropped-off category). I think there are many entries in the expert challenges that take advantage of expert rules in very subtle ways, but that would be DQ'd in advanced.
eta: I'd add that there are also plenty of top entries in expert challenges that would qualify under advanced or sometimes basic. |
Agreed. I love that aspect, actually- that you can enter a non-expert image and score well. I just feel like the dropoff is steeper in Expert than Advanced. Perhaps it's due to the community being more adjusted to that limit, I'm not sure, but there's a distinct difference. A haphazard mask in Advanced happens way further down the results, but the horrible blending of elements in Expert typically starts top ten.
As for Mark-A;
I agree in premise with you about rulesets being considered more carefully, but it still becomes a minor group that would dictate the future, and it's very hard to make that balanced (look at the US attempts at that in the Supreme Court! ;) ).
My disagreement with the premise is that I enjoy how DPC serves as an environment for people to learn photographic technique, which can then be applied later down the line to achieve scenes with many photos and sources. But if you never learn to capture that scene, and what goes into it, I feel like you're just slapping kitties on random photos, and it shows.
Also, Art, you process exquisitely, but it is in the meme category. You do things real enough to be believable and which obviously require skill, yet still openly show they are added elements, which is necessary to get the joke. It's great, you do it awesome, but I enjoy them as an aside. What I don't like about the plethora of expert editing is that I think it serves as a crutch. Well, instead of thinking of how to do this, I'll just paste it in via PS. The shots that do well do well because they are impossible to create without Expert, but after that, it turns into "I'm using Expert because I can and didn't bother to really compose my shot
." It becomes a distraction and the results sorta speak for themselves. |
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06/08/2012 05:20:27 AM · #17 |
I guess this proves my argument that absolutely no thought is going into matching the editing style with the topic.
again i will continue to not participate.
if you ding like it dont enter, the only way it will change is if participation drops.
Message edited by author 2012-06-08 05:22:17. |
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06/08/2012 06:15:10 AM · #18 |
So what would have happened if a film were made of The Martian Chronicles in 1951 (?) when it was written? They'd have done it without CGI is what.
I did suggest elsewhere parallel challenges, one basic and one advanced.
I'm not so sure bug-eyed-beans from Venus and/or Star Wars cinematography really gets the heart of Bradbury. |
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06/08/2012 06:25:31 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by raish:
So what would have happened if a film were made of The Martian Chronicles in 1951 (?) when it was written? They'd have done it without CGI is what.
I did suggest elsewhere parallel challenges, one basic and one advanced.
I'm not so sure bug-eyed-beans from Venus and/or Star Wars cinematography really gets the heart of Bradbury. |
you know why hollywood uses cgi?
its cheaper and easier and produces more realistic results.
if we had unlimited funds and time we wouldn't need expert to capture our vision. but we dont so we do.
basic editing just makes a mockery of the topic. i can understand, even if i dont agree with the choice of minimal, in a given challenge, but the choice of basic is just plain stupid.
what is so wrong with advanced they we just couldn't use that instead?
do you ever hear anyone complain about advanced? nope, it the perfect rule-set. |
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06/08/2012 07:46:44 AM · #20 |
If some people spent the same amount of time on their entry for a challenge as opposed to bitching about the rule set, I'm pretty sure the rule set wouldn't matter to complete their vision (excluding  gyaban, but he's never complained of the rule set in place).
CS
Message edited by author 2012-06-08 07:47:39. |
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06/08/2012 08:01:46 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
(excluding gyaban, but he's never complained of the rule set in place).
CS |
he voiced his opinions before on the rule sets.
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06/10/2012 03:06:37 AM · #22 |
I'm looking forward to see how creative Gyaban can be using only the basic rules.
By the way I looked at some of the titles of Bradbury's books and although some of the titles are descriptive in themselves I think that
with most one will need to read the story so as to be able to create an image that relates to or occurs within that particular story. If you know what I mean.
Message edited by author 2012-06-10 03:17:48. |
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06/10/2012 03:55:02 AM · #23 |
| I agree with fred.. Just the titles dont give much of an insight into wat the storyline was.. I might give this one a pass |
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06/10/2012 01:14:24 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by JustFred:
I'm looking forward to see how creative Gyaban can be using only the basic rules.
By the way I looked at some of the titles of Bradbury's books and although some of the titles are descriptive in themselves I think that
with most one will need to read the story so as to be able to create an image that relates to or occurs within that particular story. If you know what I mean. |
although, with past literature and song title challenges, it may go down more along the story title than the story content... and i must say there are some great titles that would be fun to shoot.
-mefnj |
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06/10/2012 01:42:13 PM · #25 |
| I won't be entering this one, I'm afraid basic is just not right for the challenge topic. Such a shame it's such a fun topic too. |
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