| Author | Thread |
|
|
06/07/2012 10:02:23 PM · #51 |
minimal using rotation (and the resultant crop) to straighten horizon. nothin sucks more than getting home and finding you're a little bit off because it was pitch black when you took the shot.
eta: don't worry, didn't mean it, was just annoyed at myself :/
Message edited by author 2012-06-08 10:41:40. |
|
|
|
06/07/2012 10:41:40 PM · #52 |
Horizons should be right during capture.
Regarding cropping in minimal, I sometimes feel that a scene or a subject is well suited for a square crop but since i dont have a square sensor, i cant do it on camera.
I sometimes feel that a subject needs a tighter crop but i dont always carry my zoom lens and there are a thousand reasons why i may not be able to physically get nearer my subject so having a tight crop is sometimes not possible with the gear you have and your minimum possible distance to your subject.
So there are valid reasons why some of us want to be allowed to crop in minimal editing rules. |
|
|
|
06/07/2012 11:11:29 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by LandzEnca:
So there are valid reasons why some of us want to be allowed to crop in minimal editing rules. |
But if you crop, it isn't "minimal". I can think of oodles of "valid reasons" why any number of things should be allowed, and I can't think of ANY reason why cropping should be the special exemption to the class. On the other hand, I can think of a very specific reason why cropping should not be allowed: because the goal of the minimal ruleset, at least as it's constructed now, is to force people to work within a very tight set of constraints. It's a very valuable exercise, and "getting the cropping right in camera" is a major part of that exercise. It's a discipline that pays huge dividends right down the line.
*************
In a related sense, people need to understand that the idea of having it be "minimal editing except RAW is allowed" is just impossible, because the whole POINT of minimal editing is to previsualize and get the desired result in your mind before you pull the trigger and make the capture. This, also, is a discipline that will pat dividends right on down the line forever. It's SO easy for us to get lulled into the complacent mindset that "it's all fixable in post, don't sweat it", and that sort of sloppiness just breeds more and more sloppiness, and it's like you'll never KNOW what your work might have been, you'll never know what you've been missing by not nailing the fundamentals down tight at the beginning.
R.
It's almost impossible even to EXPLAIN it to people who haven't experienced it. I better shut up now :-)
Message edited by author 2012-06-07 23:12:17.
|
|
|
|
06/07/2012 11:29:09 PM · #54 |
I agree with most of what you have stated, specially with previsualization part so you get everything right on camera.
But what if you have previsualized something to be a square or tight crop but like i said, you are limited by your gear and distance to subject? What kind of exercise would allow you to do that?
It isn't minimal because it isnt part of the minimal ruleset as it is defined now. It also isn't part of mike's redifinition of the rule, but that is my take on what needs to be changed.
Message edited by author 2012-06-07 23:32:32. |
|
|
|
06/07/2012 11:35:59 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by LandzEnca:
I agree with most of what you have stated, specially with previsualization part so you get everything right on camera.
But what if you have previsualized something to be a square or tight crop but like i said, you are limited by your gear and distance to subject? What kind of exercise woul allow you to do that?
It isn't minimal because it isnt part of the minimal ruleset as it is defined now. It also isn't part if mike's redifinition of the rule, but that is my take on what needs to be changed. |
But WHY?
Suppose you were a writer, a poet, and someone had a contest for a Petrarchan Sonnet? And you had a GREAT idea for a Villanelle that you were convinced would win the contest, if only they would loosen up the rules so you didn't have to adhere to the sonnet form? Would that make any sense?
This whole minimal-editing thing is an entirely arbitrary exercise, designed specifically to get the photographer working within a rigid set of constraints. That one of those constraints is the native aspect ratio of your camera is integral to the exercise. That beautiful, square-cropped image you have in mind is destined for a different challenge.
Embrace the limitations! Flourish within them!
R.
|
|
|
|
06/07/2012 11:41:33 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
[quote=LandzEnca] I agree with most of what you have stated, specially with previsualization part so you get everything right on camera.
But what if you have previsualized something to be a square or tight crop but like i said, you are limited by your gear and distance to subject? What kind of exercise woul allow you to do that?
It isn't minimal because it isnt part of the minimal ruleset as it is defined now. It also isn't part if mike's redifinition of the rule, but that is my take on what needs to be changed. |
But WHY?
Suppose you were a writer, a poet, and someone had a contest for a Petrarchan Sonnet? And you had a GREAT idea for a Villanelle that you were convinced would win the contest, if only they would loosen up the rules so you didn't have to adhere to the sonnet form? Would that make any sense?
This whole minimal-editing thing is an entirely arbitrary exercise, designed specifically to get the photographer working within a rigid set of constraints. That one of those constraints is the native aspect ratio of your camera is integral to the exercise. That beautiful, square-cropped image you have in mind is destined for a different challenge.
Embrace the limitations! Flourish within them!
R.
Except that that new minimal has adjustment layers and raw adjustment. Crop is consistent with these processing allowances. |
|
|
|
06/08/2012 01:47:01 AM · #57 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Minimal. As is, no crop.
Normal. Previously known as Advanced.
Gyaban. Previously known as Expert. |
LOL! |
|
|
|
06/08/2012 02:46:59 AM · #58 |
Originally posted by LandzEnca:
I sometimes feel that a scene or a subject is well suited for a square crop but since i dont have a square sensor, i cant do it on camera. |
Yes, you can - AND with a fancy border... ;-)
 
Originally posted by cloudsme:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
This whole minimal-editing thing is an entirely arbitrary exercise, designed specifically to get the photographer working within a rigid set of constraints. That one of those constraints is the native aspect ratio of your camera is integral to the exercise. That beautiful, square-cropped image you have in mind is destined for a different challenge.
Embrace the limitations! Flourish within them!
R. |
Except that that new minimal has adjustment layers and raw adjustment. Crop is consistent with these processing allowances. |
I thought the consensus was to leave minimal as-is. I guess I didn't read Mike's proposed new description of minimal - I am for as-is. |
|
|
|
06/08/2012 02:52:14 AM · #59 |
| Hehe. Very creative Art as usual. But i fear the border patrol.... :) |
|
|
|
06/08/2012 09:41:47 AM · #60 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by blindjustice:
Ok, you scared the crop out of me.
Right outta the camera sounds good.
We all agree no in-camera bullshite like the silly effects found in cheap point and shoots, for minimal right? |
not just found in P&S's anymore...
they were always banned (in minimal) and i dont think anyone has any will to let them in :) |
They were allowed and still would be in your proposed ruleset.
Originally posted by minimal editing rules:
You may:
use any feature of your camera while photographing your entry, with the exception of combining multiple captures in-camera. |
|
|
|
|
06/08/2012 09:58:34 AM · #61 |
Originally posted by james_so:
They were allowed and still would be in your proposed ruleset.
|
wait, what???
we need to redo the rule set now.
if we were allowed to the provide gimmicky style effects in camera then the whole minimal rulset has lost its merit. |
|
|
|
06/08/2012 10:03:13 AM · #62 |
The name changes proposed (especially Melethia's) are fine, but minimal should be left alone. No crop, no change.....the entire point of minimal is to test the photographer, not test your post processing skills.
I agree with...Robert, Ken, & Melethia. :P |
|
|
|
06/08/2012 10:19:41 AM · #63 |
I like the idea of three rule sets as well.
a merging of basic and advanced seems reasonable.
This would be an excellent time to redefine, and clarify rule sets.
Minimal - no crop, no rotation, what you shot is what you get. Makes for good training on the fundamentals.
Normal - multiple exposures of the same sbuject for HDR, time lapse, etc. No adding elements from other images, no text, no drawing on your image.
Open - whatever floats your boat, but it must be your work.
|
|
|
|
06/08/2012 10:29:44 AM · #64 |
| good points on minimal so far for leaving it as is, im coming around to the idea of what it represents and why it should stay, however basic still needs to die. |
|
|
|
06/08/2012 10:35:38 AM · #65 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
good points on minimal so far for leaving it as is, im coming around to the idea of what it represents and why it should stay, however basic still needs to die. |
Agreed. I've been saying that so often I gave up...
R.
|
|
|
|
06/08/2012 11:17:03 AM · #66 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by james_so:
They were allowed and still would be in your proposed ruleset.
|
wait, what???
we need to redo the rule set now.
if we were allowed to the provide gimmicky style effects in camera then the whole minimal rulset has lost its merit. |
Indeed, it would be very hard to police though and changing the rule would create more grey areas.
|
|
Home -
Challenges -
Community -
League -
Photos -
Cameras -
Lenses -
Learn -
Help -
Terms of Use -
Privacy -
Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 07/29/2025 04:15:11 PM EDT.
