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08/12/2004 12:12:27 AM · #76 |
Originally posted by JEM:
Mad, do not be deterred from further thought on a plan to protect from terrorists. Yes, you deserve a life...but your GF must understand your obligations in a larger sense. And please do not readily encourage mindless, sophomoric rantings in other DPC forums. It is good to hear serious comment from you younger generation. After all, you are going to inherit our country and be responsible for its continued success. |
The problem is that brick walls do not accept new information well, especially if it contradicts their normal intake of information. I find that I make more enemies than friends in my quest to try and spread information. Even to the point that here on DPC I feel I don̢۪t get the time others do in non-political forum conversation.
And as you said John, the future is for my generation. I̢۪m 25 years old but I only know 1 other person in my age group who is active in the quest for knowledge in the subject of our current world situation.
As far as your previous comment John, that you don̢۪t think the leader of America means much in the grand scheme of things, I have to disagree. Granted the policies may not change much, but the man can make all the difference. Had someone without prior interests and agendas been in control of our army, maybe we would have made more wise decisions post 9/11, which ultimately could have led to us still receiving the worlds sympathy and help, instead of the world now condemning what we do and in many cases, distancing themselves from us as a world policy. |
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08/12/2004 01:02:19 AM · #77 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by RonB:
At the time, BEFORE the time, many Democrats were making statements just as overstated. |
You make the mistaken assumption that I care about partisan boundaries in American politics. Both parties are about as far right as possible, given the global scale of things - they have almost identical policies and similar approaches. In many ways that's why I find much of the nonsense that happens in these forums and the media laughable.
As I remember seeing a few times, this current election in the US is a class war.
Yale class of '68 versus Yale class of '66.
Yes, the entire US political system overstated the case to invade another country and ignored the rest of the world. Partisan politics should be the least of your worries in this. |
Gordon, you've provided an awesome series of responses on this issue.
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08/12/2004 09:35:31 AM · #78 |
| Off topic slightly but i do have to say, this is one of the best 'political' threads i have seen on this site. Keep it up!!! I want to see if either side will agree with the other! Though i somehow doubt it.... |
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08/12/2004 10:41:28 AM · #79 |
Mad, my original challenge to you: "Looking back on twenty five years of history what is your specific plan to stop terrorist attacks on our country and its interests?"
Woulda, shoulda, is past. Start with a clean slate and offer concrete, doable recommendations for our course of action. |
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08/12/2004 10:44:25 AM · #80 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Are these the same happy Iraqis that plant roadside bombs, kill our soldiers, kidnap truck drivers, behead people and ambush convoys to burn the corpses and hang them from bridges? |
Nope. For the most part, the Iraqis that plant roadside bombs, kill our soldiers, kidnap truck drivers, behead people and ambush convoys to burn the corpses and hang them from bridges are not women, children or elderly people. In other words, they are the ones who have a lot to lose if democratic rule becomes the way of life. Only by killing democracy can they continue with their enforced repression of women, children, and the elderly, under the guise of "religion".
Of course, there are also the mercenaries brought in from other Arab states to assist the "insurgents".
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
The "honeymoon" between liberated Iraqis and the US forces, if there ever was one, is largely over. |
The "honeymoon" is over between my wife and I, too - has been for nearly 25 years. But guess what? We are still married, and we still love each other. And, to be honest, I never expected the "honeymoon" to last that long, anyway. Only a naive idealist would believe it should.
Ron |
The difference is that the Iraqis want a divorce, before the cruise ship has even left the port. |
You say "the Iraqis" as though you speak for them all. Be assured that you do not. SOME Iraqis, for sure. But "the Iraqis" implies the entire population, and I must disagree with your use of that broad of a statement.
Ron |
OK, maybe not all the Iraqis, but certainly the planning and execution being done by the Iraqis that plant roadside bombs, kill our soldiers, kidnap truck drivers, behead people and ambush convoys to burn the corpses and hang them from bridges is supported, if not directly, then implicitly by a significant number of them.
Ron, you and I are never going to agree at all on any of this. You will always believe in Bush and I will just as fervently believe you both to be wrong, which you are. |
Rather than saying that the insurgents are "supported, if not directly, then implicitly by a significant number of them", I would say that the insurgenst are "not actively opposed by a significant number of them". A nuance, perhaps, but one I find significant. Many individuals, and regimes, come to power not because of significant support, but by significant lack of opposition.
I am sure that we could agree on SOME of this - I just don't know what that SOME is, yet. Perhaps we'll find out in future posts.
Ron |
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08/12/2004 11:13:04 AM · #81 |
Over two centuries past Edmund Burke spoke to today's world when he said: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
In more recent history think of pre-WWll Nazi Germany and Hirohito's Japan. Ruanda and Sudan. Perhaps North Korea and Iran.
Better to take relatively small losses early, rather than terribly huge losses later.
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08/13/2004 09:30:30 AM · #82 |
| Hot topic..may a good Challenge? Take a photo of Privacy or the lack of. |
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08/13/2004 11:48:00 AM · #83 |
Originally posted by biohazard:
Off topic slightly but i do have to say, this is one of the best 'political' threads i have seen on this site. Keep it up!!! I want to see if either side will agree with the other! Though i somehow doubt it.... |
Hey Bio, I hope you're following this thread, too.
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08/13/2004 04:10:58 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Are these the same happy Iraqis that plant roadside bombs, kill our soldiers, kidnap truck drivers, behead people and ambush convoys to burn the corpses and hang them from bridges? |
Nope. For the most part, the Iraqis that plant roadside bombs, kill our soldiers, kidnap truck drivers, behead people and ambush convoys to burn the corpses and hang them from bridges are not women, children or elderly people. In other words, they are the ones who have a lot to lose if democratic rule becomes the way of life. Only by killing democracy can they continue with their enforced repression of women, children, and the elderly, under the guise of "religion".
Of course, there are also the mercenaries brought in from other Arab states to assist the "insurgents".
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
The "honeymoon" between liberated Iraqis and the US forces, if there ever was one, is largely over. |
The "honeymoon" is over between my wife and I, too - has been for nearly 25 years. But guess what? We are still married, and we still love each other. And, to be honest, I never expected the "honeymoon" to last that long, anyway. Only a naive idealist would believe it should.
Ron |
The difference is that the Iraqis want a divorce, before the cruise ship has even left the port. |
You say "the Iraqis" as though you speak for them all. Be assured that you do not. SOME Iraqis, for sure. But "the Iraqis" implies the entire population, and I must disagree with your use of that broad of a statement.
Ron |
OK, maybe not all the Iraqis, but certainly the planning and execution being done by the Iraqis that plant roadside bombs, kill our soldiers, kidnap truck drivers, behead people and ambush convoys to burn the corpses and hang them from bridges is supported, if not directly, then implicitly by a significant number of them.
Ron, you and I are never going to agree at all on any of this. You will always believe in Bush and I will just as fervently believe you both to be wrong, which you are. |
Rather than saying that the insurgents are "supported, if not directly, then implicitly by a significant number of them", I would say that the insurgenst are "not actively opposed by a significant number of them". A nuance, perhaps, but one I find significant. Many individuals, and regimes, come to power not because of significant support, but by significant lack of opposition.
I am sure that we could agree on SOME of this - I just don't know what that SOME is, yet. Perhaps we'll find out in future posts.
Ron |
Not actively opposing the insurgents IS implied support. In other words, those Iraqis that do not take some action against the insurgents are tacitly expressing their support of the insurgents and their acts. I DO believe that a small portion of Iraqis actively support the insurgents, but a larger fraction of Iraqis give this tacit approval for the insurgents' actions.
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08/13/2004 08:24:58 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Not actively opposing the insurgents IS implied support. In other words, those Iraqis that do not take some action against the insurgents are tacitly expressing their support of the insurgents and their acts. I DO believe that a small portion of Iraqis actively support the insurgents, but a larger fraction of Iraqis give this tacit approval for the insurgents' actions. |
Not necessarily so. I can think of two reasons why:
1) Perhaps they have been misled by the Iraqi liberals :-) No - seriously, they could very well have been misled as to what is going on in their country as to who are the "good guys" and who are the "bad guys". I find that Americans, in general, are far too ignorant of what's going on in their own country. I would say that the majority do not have a clue who Colin Powell is, or who the Secretary of Defense is. Why would I expect Iraqi's to be so much more aware of the politics of what is happening in their own country.
2) Perhaps they are aware of what's going on, but are afraid to oppose the armed insurgents. They have seen what happened to those who opposed the Baath Party members and are not very confident that the same fate won't befall them if they oppose the insurgents ( many of whom were probably former Baath Party members ).
Just a thought.
Ron |
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08/16/2004 08:48:20 PM · #86 |
This is interesting !
CNN
Stay home and keep quiet,will take photos later !
Message edited by author 2004-08-16 21:03:02. |
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08/16/2004 09:31:12 PM · #87 |
| As if the protesters will be allowed to get anywhere near Madison Square Garden. This is just harrassment of the citizens of the US who criticize the government. |
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08/16/2004 11:38:29 PM · #88 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Not actively opposing the insurgents IS implied support. In other words, those Iraqis that do not take some action against the insurgents are tacitly expressing their support of the insurgents and their acts. I DO believe that a small portion of Iraqis actively support the insurgents, but a larger fraction of Iraqis give this tacit approval for the insurgents' actions. |
So who are you campaigning for? Because, as you state, "Not actively opposing the insurgents IS implied support." SO you must be actively supporting someone, or just passivley supporting the status quo?
As to the original post on this thread, you can stop 90% of the info gathering - stop using credit cards, cell phones, 'shopper advantage cards' , the internet... to get these modern conveniences you give out information. Want to retain privacy then move to a third world country and live in a computer-less society - but DOH! they are not 'free' in most of them...Catch 22 I suppose. Perhaps we are not as paranoid as we should be.
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