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04/11/2012 11:57:18 AM · #26 |
The only particularity I use in voting is that 10s get favd and favs get 10s. Must do an analysis of my voting sometime actually!
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04/11/2012 12:21:24 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by romanlatham:
Dear Neat,
I would like to say first of all thank you for voting on my photo's. You have been so kind with your comments and generally made me feel welcome on this site.
I have read what you are challenging on this forum and now I feel that you are trying to goad people into feeling the way that you do about a picture. Comments like "fess up" makes me feel that if I don't vote the way that you do, I must have something to "fess up" about. The voting is between 1 and 10 and I feel that people have a right to vote however they want to when they look at a photo.I don't want to be made to feel like I have to vote with the rest of the group. I can't remember what score I gave this photo, and frankly I'm not even going to check, just so I can take part in someones witch hunt. Believe me, I have had my fair share of 1's , 2's and 3's and they sometimes make me question " what am I doing here on this site because Damn, my photo's must be god awful to get such low scores. I almost made my first 6 in this challenge and I was very disappointed with my 5.96. But, I didn't complain. I just know that I have do better.I truly hope that I am misunderstanding your forum post. Keep in mind that I am not trying to disrespect you in any way. I hope that I can converse with you in the future without any flak.
Yours respectfully,
Roman Latham |
Roman,
I do not know that Anita is not trying to goad people into feeling the way she does but rather simply trying to understand others' reaction to this photo. This is a photo to which she had a strong positive reaction. Based upon the distribution of scores, others did not. I suspect that her post is a sincere effort to try to understand what others found lacking in a photo that moved her. Maybe I am wrong. I suspect she is sleeping right now. She may let us know later in the day.
Respectfully,
Mark |
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04/11/2012 12:21:32 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by Neat:
Well I wonder if those who gave this a 5 and under would fess up..come on :) |
Fess up. You got it! In this challenge, I gave the Blue a 9, Red a 6, and the Yellow a 3. All over the place.
I don't think our weirdo friend had a shot with that image for all of the reasons stated. BTW, it's small by comparison to the other entries. I'm sure that hurt the score as well. My only 10 in the challenge. |
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04/11/2012 12:22:03 PM · #29 |
I like the idea about your 10's getting favd! I might copy that idea, if it's OK.
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04/11/2012 12:26:52 PM · #30 |
Yeah thanks Mark! I was hoping I was reading it incorrectly. If you're talking about NEAT, she has been most kind to me with my entries. I'm new to photography , so you can imagine my scores. The "fess up" thing just struck a chord with me. I'm probably reading too much into it.
Message edited by author 2012-04-11 13:28:22. |
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04/11/2012 12:29:43 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
Before voting, I look through all the entries and figure out which entries are getting the highest and lowest votes. I use the entire scale, so I always give out at least a 1 and a 9. |
I think the proper term is relative voting... vs. absolute voting. For me, some challenges never get a 9 or 10, some never get anything below a 4... which is more of an absolute scale.
You're comparing the shots only to the ones in the challenge, while I vote based on all photos I've ever seen. |
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04/11/2012 12:30:31 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by romanlatham:
Yeah thanks Mark! I was hoping I was reading it incorrectly. If your talking about NEAT, she has been most kind to me with my entries. I'm new to photography , so you can imagine my scores. The "fess up" thing just struck a chord with me. I'm probably reading too much into it. |
She's fiery. |
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04/11/2012 12:41:46 PM · #33 |
Really James!! Oh-Oh !!! I'd better watch out! I'm going to get it when she wakes up.
Damn,is there any to erase my post????
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04/11/2012 01:07:26 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by romanlatham:
The "fess up" thing just struck a chord with me. I'm probably reading too much into it. |
But there was a Smiley after it!
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04/11/2012 01:13:28 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by romanlatham:
Really James!! Oh-Oh !!! I'd better watch out! I'm going to get it when she wakes up.
Damn,is there any to erase my post???? |
You can edit it to something else entirely. But it's already been "quoted" so you are doomed anyway :-)
R.
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04/11/2012 01:22:52 PM · #36 |
Just kidding about the erasing!! I think I showed all the proper respect. Somethings might look harsher on paper than if I could talk to the person face to face. By the way I looked at her site and she has done some mighty fine work. Thanks anyway Bear Music
Message edited by author 2012-04-11 13:25:04. |
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04/11/2012 01:46:54 PM · #37 |
i dislike the idea in principle of bucket voting.
I take each photo and give it a score based on an initial run without looking at the thumbnails. afterwords i go back to my distributed list and bump up/down based on how i feel on a second or third run through. i generally end up with a 6+ average score because if i really like an image i'll 9 or 10 it based on how it meets critera and makes me feel, and basically asking myself "would i be pleased with this photo enough to add it to my wall collection if i shot it?" and "would i buy a print of this to hang in my house/office?"
Yes answers usually end up with higher marks, but there's been a few times i gave out 8 or 9 on an obscure image because that's what the criteria was for and the picture nailed what was asked for even though i personally wouldn't have chosen to 'wall' it. |
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04/11/2012 02:05:02 PM · #38 |
| I guess everyone has their own system that works for them when it comes to voting. I like to vote on every image, usually giving out a couple 10's, very rarely any 1's. Usually, the only time that I don't vote on an image is when I find it very offensive - I don't mind being offended, sometimes great art is offensive- it's more when I feel there is no justification demonstrated for the offense... make sense at all?! After I've marked the photos, I can look at all my 6's for instance, & then bump images up or down accordingly. Often I don't give out 10's right away. I like to look over my 8's & 9's after a day or more & then those images that have stuck with me on an emotional level, bump to 10's! Yup, that's pretty much how I roll ;P Hmmm, I think I may be spending too much time on DPC! |
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04/11/2012 02:14:23 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by RyanWareham:
i dislike the idea in principle of bucket voting. |
There are no incorrect methods of voting as long as the voter is consistent and hopefully votes on every photo. If someone only wanted to give out 1s and 10s, that'd be their prerogative, and contrary to what some may think, is a fair voting method. It's only problematic when a voter selectively votes on a sample of entries. This could lead to situations where a vote scrubber modifies rankings incorrectly (I hear about this vote scrubber a lot, but haven't seen definitive proof it actually exists).
Photo A
Votes: 101
Average: 6.0000
Photo B
Votes: 100
Average: 5.9999
After scrubber eliminates the vote of 1 to each image, Photo A now trails Photo B only because more people voted on their image.
Photo A
Votes: 100
Average: 6.0500
Photo B
Votes: 99
Average: 6.0504
I can construe many situations along these lines. A good book on voting systems, patterns, and how to play the game is Gaming The Vote by Poundstone.
CS
Message edited by author 2012-04-11 14:16:07. |
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04/11/2012 02:25:48 PM · #40 |
Message edited by author 2012-07-24 16:50:44. |
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04/11/2012 02:30:48 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by deeby:
he said he didn't like it...he didn't say it wasn't legit |
I got so caught up in my example I didn't reread the part I quoted. You're right.
CS |
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04/11/2012 02:49:55 PM · #42 |
| yeah, in principle i dislike it. in some cases it's the only fair way to do things, in other cases i feel each should be judged on it's own merit. it's one of the great things about being human - the ability to choose. :) if that's the way people want to vote, by all means, vote away. i'd rather see people vote in a bucket method that straight up low-ball everybody, or not vote at all. :) |
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04/11/2012 03:15:55 PM · #43 |
First off, I liked the shot. Challenge aside,
inherent in the question is not "why didn't this score higher" but rather, "why did other shots that I deem inferior do better than this shot?"
I am not saying I don't whole-heartedly agree, it just seems that is a question we dare not ask, especially, as Robert notes, when a photo does a 6+ and in the top 20's.
although there are many good answers all hinting at cracking the "challenge code"
Message edited by author 2012-04-11 15:16:50. |
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04/11/2012 07:26:38 PM · #44 |
We can look at the problem, the issues, habits of voting, numbers, statistics,
at impossible ways obstructed by each and the sheer sum of the parts,
or we can look at the picture
a little closer and longer than it takes
to devise a scheme, a democracy of opinions
that doesn't hold up against the irrepressible freshness
of the occasional photograph,
of the instant it is what it is
which is so rare, it sings
and this
has nothing to do with taste,
the opinion of one or how to leverage it
what else can we do
but seek out the best, a little diligence
and share it with those who do not know any better
but to oppose it, a little sincerity
and help it along by making it popular
even if it means
putting the horse before the cart,
as if it were some pernicious idea
threatening the rights of individuals
whose interest does not extend
to goods with nothing in it for them.
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04/11/2012 07:39:05 PM · #45 |
the nice thing about photography is that different images resonate with different people. obviously this image didn't blow peoples away.
no point in trying to find out why people don't think like you, they just don't.
its one thing if you are looking for critique on your own image, but do try and get thoughts on someone elses is fruitless.
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04/11/2012 07:46:55 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
... but do try and get thoughts on someone elses is fruitless. |
I wouldn't say that. There have been some good conversations about challenge results, ribbon winners, etc...previously. This thread had some worthy discussion on the first page of posts, then it fell into the always testy "I vote this way" banter.
I'd like to see more discussions on results, what worked, what didn't, etc... Unfortunately, once the results are in we (DPC) start positioning for the next challenge (description deciphering, opinions on what will meet / not meet the challenge, blah-blah-blah). |
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04/11/2012 08:06:28 PM · #47 |
| Thank you everyone for the wonderful comments! Actually, I didn't even expect this to end at the sixes because it was at 5.7xxx for most of the week. This was taken along highway 1 on a spontaneous road trip to get way from the dreary bay area rain. For me, the main double take was how the terrain mirrors the ocean. However, what really compulsed me to enter it was the free spirited folks who appear to be having so much fun, without a care in the world. The cliff to get down where they are is quite steep. :) The other "doubles" (the peoples postures, the footsteps and the shoreline) became more apparent as I was postprocessing it. Thanks for looking... |
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04/11/2012 08:47:55 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by markwiley:
Originally posted by romanlatham:
Dear Neat,
I would like to say first of all thank you for voting on my photo's. You have been so kind with your comments and generally made me feel welcome on this site.
I have read what you are challenging on this forum and now I feel that you are trying to goad people into feeling the way that you do about a picture. Comments like "fess up" makes me feel that if I don't vote the way that you do, I must have something to "fess up" about. The voting is between 1 and 10 and I feel that people have a right to vote however they want to when they look at a photo.I don't want to be made to feel like I have to vote with the rest of the group. I can't remember what score I gave this photo, and frankly I'm not even going to check, just so I can take part in someones witch hunt. Believe me, I have had my fair share of 1's , 2's and 3's and they sometimes make me question " what am I doing here on this site because Damn, my photo's must be god awful to get such low scores. I almost made my first 6 in this challenge and I was very disappointed with my 5.96. But, I didn't complain. I just know that I have do better.I truly hope that I am misunderstanding your forum post. Keep in mind that I am not trying to disrespect you in any way. I hope that I can converse with you in the future without any flak.
Yours respectfully,
Roman Latham |
Roman,
I do not know that Anita is not trying to goad people into feeling the way she does but rather simply trying to understand others' reaction to this photo. This is a photo to which she had a strong positive reaction. Based upon the distribution of scores, others did not. I suspect that her post is a sincere effort to try to understand what others found lacking in a photo that moved her. Maybe I am wrong. I suspect she is sleeping right now. She may let us know later in the day.
Respectfully,
Mark |
Thanks Mark,
you hit the nail on the head. I'm sorry Roman for using the word 'fess up' I guess it did come across quite strong.
Sometimes a photo just comes along and takes your breathe away and you wonder why it doesn't do the same for others.
Have to keep reminding myself that we are all different, and we all have unique mindsets.
An image which resonates with me, might not with others. I like to look to the 'soul' of the photo, how it makes me feel, others like the eye candy stuff.
 odriew you are so humble I like that :)
Message edited by author 2012-04-11 20:49:52. |
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04/11/2012 11:51:39 PM · #49 |
| Yeah thanks Anita. Mark cleared it up for me as well. Then I felt stupid for even saying anything, as clearly you were passionate about this photo and were just trying to understand why it didn't do better. By the way I did look back and found that I scored it a 7. I really enjoyed looking at your work on your site and hope one day that I will improve to shoot some of the quality work that you have produced. |
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04/12/2012 12:03:16 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by romanlatham:
Yeah thanks Anita. Mark cleared it up for me as well. Then I felt stupid for even saying anything, as clearly you were passionate about this photo and were just trying to understand why it didn't do better. By the way I did look back and found that I scored it a 7. I really enjoyed looking at your work on your site and hope one day that I will improve to shoot some of the quality work that you have produced. |
Oh shucks thanks Roman. |
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