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03/19/2012 11:41:50 AM · #1 |
Every once in awhile, and it is rare, I dare to think I may have a 6+ entry. I thought I had one here but was wrong. So is the shot simply not worth it? Wrong challenge? Poorly processed? Did the angle hurt it? Thoughtful suggestions appreciated!
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03/19/2012 11:45:49 AM · #2 |
Your bird shot was truly wonderful. I'm guessing it didn't make the tiny violin range because it didn't say lonely to people. Maybe if it had been horizontal vs vertical, we would have had more of a sense of an empty pier, and it may have been lonelier. When it's so close to the camera, you know that the cameraman is right there, and it takes away some of the sense of isolation.
Plus, I think people don't think of birds as lonely. Cloudsme did a lovely portrait of a cardinal, but it placed even lower.
In the loneliness challenge, people want to empathize. They just empathize better with people, abandoned places, zoo animals, etc, more than birds.
The photo is beautiful -- you're right about that. You just got hurt because people didn't think it fit the challenge as tightly.
It would have been a 7 from me in a regular challenge, but it was a 6 here because I didn't feel the isolation or the loneliness. |
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03/19/2012 11:57:30 AM · #3 |
I think giving the subject a more solitude perception would of helped. Here is my take on what I'm talking about. Hope you don't mind the re-edit.
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03/19/2012 12:00:15 PM · #4 |
Deb, I'm unconvinced that "better" = higher score. Please convince me. ;-P
I love the peli's! You must have been quite close to her to get this shot with that lens! IMPRESSIVE! I find the peli's quite shy and not always easy to get close to, but I'm probably more annoying that you are...;-)
She has beautifully expressive wings and I like the composition and the background wispy sky.
My only nattering naybob nitpick is the lighting on her face...but probably my crappy monitor.
Well, that's my unhelpful two cents...:-D
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03/19/2012 12:00:41 PM · #5 |
Nice edit Scott. I'd never think to try that because I cannot do the editing to selectively blur like that. To me it always looks fake. But it does create a sense of isolation!
So wrong challenge. Good feedback! |
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03/19/2012 12:02:09 PM · #6 |
vawendy makes a lot of good points. I also gave it a 6, but it could have easily been a 7.
It's a very good wild bird image. Very nice detail, pose, exposure, focus and presentation. In another challenge, it would have scored better overall. For the All Alone challenge, the bird is in the context of city waterfront. I mean, that is their most common habitat, but the background setting implies other birds and lots of people.
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03/19/2012 12:09:52 PM · #7 |
Mae, I should have said how could this score better. :) And I had the camera practically at her feet. She was very gracious and patient with me.
Richard, yes, that pier is usually filled with people. The lack of such is what created the isolation to me, but in hindsight that isn't apparent to those who don't visit here, I suppose. Good comments! |
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03/19/2012 12:13:02 PM · #8 |
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03/19/2012 12:33:23 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by hihosilver:
Deb, I'm unconvinced that "better" = higher score. Please convince me. ;-P |
I have to frequently work on reminding myself that "good" and "popular appeal" are not always the same. All I have to do is look at some of the pics that I gave very high votes to, but which came in with the pack. I would like to get back to where I am happy with anything over a 5.5.
In this case, the only thing I can think to justify a sub-6 is a perception on the part of many people that it didn't fit the topic too well.
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03/19/2012 12:41:50 PM · #10 |
| In part I think my error stems from the fact that I don't see "alone" or solitude as necessarily sad. While the red ribbon winner seems to have a hopeful sadness to it, I don't see anything sad or lonely in the blue or yellow winners. Both express solitude very well, but are not sad to me. |
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03/19/2012 12:48:01 PM · #11 |
But the challenge description said... A single object or subject, composed and shot to give a feeling of loneliness or solitude.
This is what I based my scoring on. Loneliness is sad. Solitude is not always sad, but can be. I love being alone (though it rarely happens) and it doesn't make me sad. But being alone, and being lonely are two different things. Kind of sounds like I'm talking in circles, doesn't it? LOL! OK, forget that I said anything. ;P |
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03/19/2012 01:07:23 PM · #12 |
| I like the photo it just dosint potray "alone" |
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03/19/2012 01:07:58 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
In part I think my error stems from the fact that I don't see "alone" or solitude as necessarily sad. While the red ribbon winner seems to have a hopeful sadness to it, I don't see anything sad or lonely in the blue or yellow winners. Both express solitude very well, but are not sad to me. |
Yup. My shot wasn't meant to be sad -- it was definitely meant to be solitude. It was done specifically for the A. A. Milne poem that was quoted in the photographer comments.
Either way, though, the bird doesn't really show solitude, because the cameraman is so close to it. I guess since it's filling the frame, I feel like I'm right there with it. Plus we can't see what's to the right or the left of the bird. We need more space for solitude. Now the gorilla shot shows loneliness, simply because we know it's in a zoo -- so a closeup works there. |
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03/19/2012 01:11:04 PM · #14 |
| Heh! Yes, I apparently just don't get it. I'll keep trying! (My urban landscape is WAY off, apparently!) |
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03/19/2012 01:14:04 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Heh! Yes, I apparently just don't get it. I'll keep trying! (My urban landscape is WAY off, apparently!) |
Nope -- you get it. It's just an environment we're not used to, so we didn't get it. I can see looking in the distance that it's empty, I just didn't trust the sides, I guess. :) |
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03/19/2012 01:19:49 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by hihosilver:
Deb, I'm unconvinced that "better" = higher score. Please convince me. ;-P |
I have to frequently work on reminding myself that "good" and "popular appeal" are not always the same. All I have to do is look at some of the pics that I gave very high votes to, but which came in with the pack. I would like to get back to where I am happy with anything over a 5.5.
In this case, the only thing I can think to justify a sub-6 is a perception on the part of many people that it didn't fit the topic too well. |
A tough juggling act...:-/
While this image may not hit the voter straight between the eyes with a feeling of "All Alone," I wouldn't necessarily mire this image directly into the DNMC quicksand trap either. |
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03/19/2012 01:28:03 PM · #17 |
I'm going to comment just for the sheer absurdity of *moi* telling you how to make 5.7+ shot score higher.
The angle, while very interesting and dramatic, does not convey solitude. The bird takes up most of the frame and actually seems to lord over his surroundings. I know it's lonely at the top, but we tend to forget that. |
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03/19/2012 01:35:09 PM · #18 |
| It still comes back to the photograph. Several top placers in a recent challenge did not meet the criteria at all, but that could be because the criteria was less understandable maybe? (Euphemisms) |
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03/19/2012 01:36:25 PM · #19 |
I thought you processed it very nicely...wouldn't change anything there. For me, the choice to place your subject right in the front of the frame worked against the concept of alone. If the bird was way in the background, surrounded by an empty expanse of pier/road/? it would've been more of an impact.
That said, for any other challenge I would've scored it much higher than I did for this challenge. |
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03/19/2012 01:42:03 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
I'm going to comment just for the sheer absurdity of *moi* telling you how to make 5.7+ shot score higher. |
Yes, I realize asking the question is terribly arrogant and I apologize for that aspect of it. I really didn't get the dnmc part off it bit I do now. Thanks! |
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03/19/2012 02:25:10 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Originally posted by posthumous:
I'm going to comment just for the sheer absurdity of *moi* telling you how to make 5.7+ shot score higher. |
Yes, I realize asking the question is terribly arrogant and I apologize for that aspect of it. I really didn't get the dnmc part off it bit I do now. Thanks! |
I missed the part where I was calling you arrogant!! |
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03/19/2012 02:46:56 PM · #22 |
| Asking to score better when the score is 5.7 is arrogant in my book. I should be more than satisfied with a 5.7, as that is a good score for me. No worries. I'm balancing all this out with a score that is too high in another challenge. :) |
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03/19/2012 05:59:23 PM · #23 |
i would echo most others here... i LOVED!!!!!!!!!!!! the processing, but although it was "alone" in the area in which you got the photo, overall it didn't strongly convey "all alone" to me.
but did i say i LOVED!!!!!!!!!! the processing!
-m |
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03/19/2012 06:20:24 PM · #24 |
Im with  mefnj I really do like the pic...I like the processing, the angle it was taken...but he just doesn't look alone to me.
By the way..I did not vote in the challenge and I prob would have given you a 6.
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03/19/2012 06:26:07 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Asking to score better when the score is 5.7 is arrogant in my book. |
I have to disagree. It is quite a bit easier to find the missing element in a 5.7 scoring image (since like this one there seems to be ONE missing element) than it can be to point the way on an image that scores 4.2. The latter will often have a host of technical and conceptual flaws, while an image like yours, and a thread like his can be instructive to us all. |
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