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03/11/2012 09:15:30 PM · #1 |
Hey all
Last summer I shot a horseshow for a local stable. Now that stable would like to use a couple of my images on posters that they do up as a thank-you gesture for their clients. The poster would include my contact info and the pics have my copyright in the lower right corner.
However the woman responsible for assembling the poster - and this is a little odd too as she used to shoot shows herself - did horrendous distortion to the image in the sample poster she sent me so I could see what it would look like. I'll upload a link to it in a minute.
Now the person who shot that pic was strictly an amateur; I have a little more invested in terms of gear, skills, ability and yeah, reputation. I want people to look at the poster and think 'Wow that's an amazing shot, who's that photog again?' not 'OMFG look at that shitty image' thinking that I was the one who did the distorting.
Here's last year's poster:  There is no way I want my work looking like that, ever.
Any ideas? Any way I can lock the borders of any images I send them so they are essentially distortion-proof? I did crop it to 8x10 so hopefully that'll help deter tampering, but I dread to think what else might happen.
Message edited by author 2012-03-11 21:25:37. |
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03/11/2012 09:34:03 PM · #2 |
You could always inquire what space the image in going to be shoed into on the note, and see if they let you do the crop or resize.
It would take two seconds on your part and should be a win-win for both parties.
CS |
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03/11/2012 09:35:25 PM · #3 |
| tell them image has to be used in the dimension you provide and they are not allowed to upscale or distort it. tell them YOU will provide the image in the dimensions they require. |
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03/11/2012 10:11:12 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
tell them YOU will provide the image in the dimensions they require. |
What he said. And no, there's no technological way to keep somebody else from distorting your image. You could volunteer to lay out the whole thing. :) |
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03/11/2012 10:14:55 PM · #5 |
[quote=mike_311] tell them image has to be used in the dimension you provide and they are not allowed to upscale or distort it. tell them YOU will provide the image in the dimensions they require. [/quote
Pretty much what I plan to do. Before she sent me that sample poster, she told me that she works from an 8x10 photo, yet the poster is 8x10...then she sent me the poster. I've been wanting to rinse my eyeballs in bleach since. I did mention that I would rather not see the stretch-limo treatment given to the image. I'll have to see if she respects it or not.
Frankly I don't know why she wouldn't just do a desat of the full-sized 8x10 then lay semi-opaque lettering over top. It's not that difficult, even with my rusty desktop publishing skills I could probably do it. Maybe I should offer to do it at $20/poster! |
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03/11/2012 10:23:11 PM · #6 |
| I highly object to your belittling amateurs by your statement: "Now the person who shot that pic was strictly an amateur." I know some highly skilled amateurs and your general taring of them really pisses me off. I think you owe an apology to them. I also know some very poor professionals - but that's for another discussion. |
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03/11/2012 10:40:47 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by d56ranger:
I highly object to your belittling amateurs by your statement: "Now the person who shot that pic was strictly an amateur." I know some highly skilled amateurs and your general taring of them really pisses me off. I think you owe an apology to them. I also know some very poor professionals - but that's for another discussion. |
I know many very skilled amateur photogs, and I've worked for a very poor professional. And I've certainly put in my time as an amateur. And if you're so thin-skinned, then you probably won't like this site very much, and gawd ferbid, don't you dare go check out www.youarenotaphotographer.com.
But I did not belittle that photog, simply pointed out the plain and simple fact that that person who took it is an amateur. The actual photo, if you can imagine it un-distorted, looks pretty good.
However, she did not maintain control over how her image was used, she did not copyright/watermark it, nor did she get paid for the use of the image. I am doing my best to avoid all those mistakes.
Message edited by author 2012-03-11 22:55:16. |
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03/11/2012 10:54:18 PM · #8 |
Aww,  Snaffles/Susan - you can't take the chance of one of your images ending up like that.
As your previous responders say, you must keep control of your image(s) including a firm offer to either make
the poster or actively engage in layout. If you cannot get that assurance, then you might just regretfully
decline the opportunity.
The example you show is a travesty. |
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03/11/2012 10:56:31 PM · #9 |
Why not just point the client to this thread? That ought to get the point across.
BTW for what its worth d56ranger has been here longer than you. So I imagine he understands it well enough. |
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03/11/2012 10:59:25 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Aww, Snaffles/Susan - you can't take the chance of one of your images ending up like that.
As your previous responders say, you must keep control of your image(s) including a firm offer to either make
the poster or actively engage in layout. If you cannot get that assurance, then you might just regretfully
decline the opportunity.
The example you show is a travesty. |
I know!!! It looks like the kind of thing that we did way back in the late 80s with PageMaker. So far I have composed, but not yet sent, an email that essentially offers to do the layout for her, as I did make my living doing a fair amount of desktop publishing back in the day, along with copywriting and editing.
But then, should she say that she still wants to do the posters herself, then she must agree to a non-distortion clause before I will release the images to her. If she won't agree, then we don't have a deal. Which would suck, because most of the sponsors are tack and feed stores and generally they do display these posters - which personally scares the CRAP out of me!!! |
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03/11/2012 11:02:03 PM · #11 |
[quote=ambaker]...BTW for what its worth d56ranger has been here longer than you. So I imagine he understands it well enough. [/quote
Yes...he joined 3 months before I did, and has been a far less active participant than I. Check our respective pages.
Message edited by author 2012-03-11 23:23:20. |
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03/12/2012 12:49:40 AM · #12 |
Susan, I don't think this has to be a big deal or a problem for you.
"Hey, when you asked for 8x10, I thought that the slot you had for the pic would be those dimensions. It really distorts things to squeeze a photo into a different shape, so I'll send you what you need once you lay out the poster. If the sample's the final design, that's fine; please just let me know what the dimensions are. Thanks."
I don't see how she'd take offense to a straightforward request for the dimensions. |
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03/12/2012 02:20:52 AM · #13 |
I wouldn't hesitate to say what I thought of that stretched out image and let them know that it wouldn't be acceptable to do that to my photo. Tell them you want to approve the final before it goes into production.
BTW, I call DNMC on the thread title - it's not really a Catch 22 situation. It's just a situation. ;-) Good luck with it. |
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03/12/2012 07:22:08 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
Susan, I don't think this has to be a big deal or a problem for you.
"Hey, when you asked for 8x10, I thought that the slot you had for the pic would be those dimensions. It really distorts things to squeeze a photo into a different shape, so I'll send you what you need once you lay out the poster. If the sample's the final design, that's fine; please just let me know what the dimensions are. Thanks."
I don't see how she'd take offense to a straightforward request for the dimensions. |
That was precisely what I did, right off the bat. Thing is, in her reply email - with which she sent the sample poster - she even said that she stretches the image to fit the poster. And proved it!
I have sent an email back to her stating that a) I would be quite happy to lay out the posters myself; b) that if she does use my image she must not distort them in any way, as it is not representative of my work and I want my work shown off to full advantage; she must agree to not distort the images before I release them to her; and c) how much is she planning to pay me for the use of my images? I believe it's in the neighborhood of 30-40 sponsors. That's not small potatoes in terms of exposure. I plan to plug the figures she gives me into the Alamy calculator and use that to generate a price.
The really weird thing is, this woman herself has some serious photo chops of her own and used to shoot horseshows, including some pretty big dressage shows. She used to develop her images in b/w fer chrissake. So you'd think if anything that distorting another photog's work would be the last thing she wants to do.
So I'll wait for her reply. |
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03/12/2012 07:27:42 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I wouldn't hesitate to say what I thought of that stretched out image and let them know that it wouldn't be acceptable to do that to my photo. Tell them you want to approve the final before it goes into production.
BTW, I call DNMC on the thread title - it's not really a Catch 22 situation. It's just a situation. ;-) Good luck with it. |
good point, Ken Art.
Approving the final is a good idea.
If she's a good photographer, she's probably thinking that she's being artistic by stretching the photo -- I assume that's why she's doing it. |
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03/12/2012 09:59:10 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
If she's a good photographer, she's probably thinking that she's being artistic by stretching the photo -- I assume that's why she's doing it. |
or lazy |
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03/12/2012 11:20:05 AM · #17 |
Ok, here's what I plan to show them - exactly the same info as on the sample one. I know my layout is very basic but at least it's clean and the pic isn't distorted all to hell. I even did some funky effects on the text :-) And I can easily change the crop to make it more of a classic poster.
Feedback welcome.
Message edited by author 2012-03-12 11:21:16. |
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03/12/2012 11:40:22 AM · #18 |
| the text at the top is extremely hard on the eyes and difficult to read. go with a bolder face plain white font. |
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03/12/2012 11:45:33 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by snaffles:
Originally posted by levyj413:
Susan, I don't think this has to be a big deal or a problem for you.
"Hey, when you asked for 8x10, I thought that the slot you had for the pic would be those dimensions. It really distorts things to squeeze a photo into a different shape, so I'll send you what you need once you lay out the poster. If the sample's the final design, that's fine; please just let me know what the dimensions are. Thanks."
I don't see how she'd take offense to a straightforward request for the dimensions. |
That was precisely what I did, right off the bat. Thing is, in her reply email - with which she sent the sample poster - she even said that she stretches the image to fit the poster. And proved it!
I have sent an email back to her stating that a) I would be quite happy to lay out the posters myself; b) that if she does use my image she must not distort them in any way, as it is not representative of my work and I want my work shown off to full advantage; she must agree to not distort the images before I release them to her; and c) how much is she planning to pay me for the use of my images? I believe it's in the neighborhood of 30-40 sponsors. That's not small potatoes in terms of exposure. I plan to plug the figures she gives me into the Alamy calculator and use that to generate a price.
The really weird thing is, this woman herself has some serious photo chops of her own and used to shoot horseshows, including some pretty big dressage shows. She used to develop her images in b/w fer chrissake. So you'd think if anything that distorting another photog's work would be the last thing she wants to do.
So I'll wait for her reply. |
Here's where a small change in demeanor can make all the difference, and where email can get you in trouble fast because tone is determined 100% by the listener.
If we're talking, and I have a friendly tone (or even better, in person so I can show through body language that I'm not being harsh), and I use language like "I'd rather avoid ..." instead of "you must not," I convey one thing.
But if I send an email, and the relationship's not rock-solid to begin with, her reading "you must not ..." and "I'll do it for you," what she could easily hear in her head is "you're incompetent and I'm worried you'll screw up my perfection with your bumbling."
Make sense?
Sometimes a 5-minute phone call will totally save what could turn into email ugliness. |
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03/12/2012 11:49:58 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
Here's where a small change in demeanor can make all the difference, and where email can get you in trouble fast because tone is determined 100% by the listener.
If we're talking, and I have a friendly tone (or even better, in person so I can show through body language that I'm not being harsh), and I use language like "I'd rather avoid ..." instead of "you must not," I convey one thing.
But if I send an email, and the relationship's not rock-solid to begin with, her reading "you must not ..." and "I'll do it for you," what she could easily hear in her head is "you're incompetent and I'm worried you'll screw up my perfection with your bumbling."
Make sense?
Sometimes a 5-minute phone call will totally save what could turn into email ugliness. |
+1
Message edited by author 2012-03-12 11:50:12. |
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03/12/2012 12:29:40 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by levyj413:
Here's where a small change in demeanor can make all the difference, and where email can get you in trouble fast because tone is determined 100% by the listener.
If we're talking, and I have a friendly tone (or even better, in person so I can show through body language that I'm not being harsh), and I use language like "I'd rather avoid ..." instead of "you must not," I convey one thing.
But if I send an email, and the relationship's not rock-solid to begin with, her reading "you must not ..." and "I'll do it for you," what she could easily hear in her head is "you're incompetent and I'm worried you'll screw up my perfection with your bumbling."
Make sense?
Sometimes a 5-minute phone call will totally save what could turn into email ugliness. |
+1 |
True, and I appreciate what you're saying. I did tactfully word the email so my point was clear; I didn't lay down the law. In fact reading it this morning I thought I had soft-pedalled it way too much! Still waiting to hear back from her.
ETA: Trust me, Mike, I'd much rather do stoopid things with fonts than have all kinds of horrendous squash'n'stretch done to my images. And it was my first time messing around with Bevel, so I'm just having some fun with it at the moment.
Message edited by author 2012-03-12 12:36:48. |
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03/12/2012 12:50:11 PM · #22 |
Susan,
I didn't see are they paying you for this?? If so remove your name etc and take the money and run...
If Not getting paid, NO way in hell let them do the editing to your shot!! As wise and maker of many $$$ Rmac say's Never show a bad shot, not that yours would be bad but folks would think it's your photo, the normal non-photographic peeps have no idea what editing is. The higher end folk who you want to sell your horse shots to, will go argh that person doesn't know how to shoot a horse...
Tell them (if it's a free shot) You will do the edit on the front for $10.00 and the picutre is free, explain your reason. Thats more than fair enough... If you need any help with the edit (writing resizeing etc) yell at me, I'd be glad to help... Yeah I may not be a Wendy, Lydia or Snaffels in the photo takeing (YET) lol... BUT I designed edited and added font to Billboards for several major companys,for years.
Hugs |
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03/12/2012 01:05:53 PM · #23 |
| That's just it, kiddo, I don't want people thinking that either a)I did that distortion or even worse, b)let someone else do that to an image of mine. So far they have not offered any kind of payment but have yet to hear back from them. And you're more than welcome to give me a hand with the fonts etc, I know my GD skills are very basic....which is why I left it so bare bones. Will get back to you once I get a response from them. Crazy horse people!! |
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03/12/2012 01:08:47 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by snaffles:
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by levyj413:
Here's where a small change in demeanor can make all the difference, and where email can get you in trouble fast because tone is determined 100% by the listener.
If we're talking, and I have a friendly tone (or even better, in person so I can show through body language that I'm not being harsh), and I use language like "I'd rather avoid ..." instead of "you must not," I convey one thing.
But if I send an email, and the relationship's not rock-solid to begin with, her reading "you must not ..." and "I'll do it for you," what she could easily hear in her head is "you're incompetent and I'm worried you'll screw up my perfection with your bumbling."
Make sense?
Sometimes a 5-minute phone call will totally save what could turn into email ugliness. |
+1 |
True, and I appreciate what you're saying. I did tactfully word the email so my point was clear; I didn't lay down the law. In fact reading it this morning I thought I had soft-pedalled it way too much! Still waiting to hear back from her.
ETA: Trust me, Mike, I'd much rather do stoopid things with fonts than have all kinds of horrendous squash'n'stretch done to my images. And it was my first time messing around with Bevel, so I'm just having some fun with it at the moment. |
At some point, you have to lay down the law or lay down yourself to get stepped on.
The problem is that you seem to be doing this without a written contract/licensing agreement and conjecturing about what might go wrong. The contract is for what happens when things go wrong. I suggest you draft something up with terms that address how your image is to be used with a clause that licensing is granted only after your approval of the final poster design.
If she's not willing to use a written agreement/contract that addresses your concerns. Run away. Don't walk, RUN.
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03/12/2012 01:44:54 PM · #25 |
This was a completely out-of-the-blue deal. A few days ago she emailed me asking if they could use two of my images on the posters that they give sponsors. I said I'd be glad and asked for info - format, size, colour, b/w...then they sent me that sample poster. I haven't been the same since! Again, this woman has been a show photog herself, I was just stunned to see what she had done to that other photog's pic.
Oh, and of course she asked me to get back in touch with her ASAP, yadda yadda yadda...which I do anyway...but now she's taking her sweet time getting back to me. And trust me, if she doesn't play by my rules, she's not getting anything. They're not a huge show barn and like most horsepeople (including me, I was in the biz for most of my life) she's slightly crazy. Plain and simple fact, most horse pros are a little eccentric. Why else would a knowledgeable photog want to do terrible things to other people's work?!
I have to admit I didn't even think much originally about a contract and licensing but hellya, the smelling salts have been waved under my nose. |
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