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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Tokina 100mm vs Nikon 105mm
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 03/06/2012 09:24:53 AM · #1
Looking to buy a micro/macro lens and was hoping for feedback from the community.
Funds aren't really an issue, but if I get the cheaper lens, it means I can buy a third flash (to accompany a SB-700 and SB-800), or soft boxes, or flash stands, or ....

Which would you choose between the two options in the subject header? Both lenses get good reviews at B&H, just looking for some more viewpoints.

CS
 03/06/2012 08:55:51 PM · #2
I'm just bumping this up a little because I'm curious to hear other peoples opinions as well. I want to get a micro/macro lens for my D700 too, mainly for use in newborn photography... is the Nikon 105mm the best option? Come on macro experts, show us what you know? Lol
 03/06/2012 10:05:56 PM · #3
Which version of the Nikon are you comparing the Tokina to? The AF-S VRII?
This is important, since there is an older version of the 105, the 105 AF.

If comparing to the new one, some things to note-
The Tokina lacks AFS, so it will focus a bit noisily and perhaps slower (I say perhaps because I've seen AF lenses that focus at least as fast as AF-S, so just because it's AF doesn't mean it isn't quick). It also means that to switch from manual to autofocus during shooting you have to use their clutch mechanism, which I've never personally used.

The Tokina does not have stabilization, so if you want to try more handheld macro, it will be more difficult to use.

Also, the Tokina's front element extends (a LOT) during focusing. Personally, I would shy away from this, but it might be a nonissue for you.

Photozone generally does pretty good reviews, here is one for the Tokina

//www.photozone.de/Reviews/269-tokina-af-100mm-f28-at-x-pro-d-macro-review--test-report

And here is their review of the 105 //www.photozone.de/Reviews/224-micro-nikkor-af-s-105mm-f28g-if-ed-vr-review--test-report


The 105 is a well established lens that many love, not only for macro, but also for general portraiture, but there are other options, as well. I'm not terribly familiar with the Tokina model, myself.
 03/06/2012 11:45:34 PM · #4
I have owned the Tokina 100mm f/2.8 for a couple of years now and have been very pleased with it. As spiritualspatula noted, the front element does extend as you change focus, but that is really a non-issue since you can't focus on anything close enough to hit the front of the lens. It is a very well built lens and the focusing clutch is really easy and quick to use. It does not have image stabilization, but personally I use a tripod for macro shots. It works well as a 100mm prime for portraiture, etc. Excellent sharpness and contrast.

One issue to be aware of is that it does not have a built in focusing motor (at least in Nikon mount). Your camera must have a focusing motor built into the body. Focusing is fairly quick (I haven't tested it, but haven't noticed slow focusing either). For macro shooting I always focus manually. For general shooting it auto focuses just fine.

I use it for a wide range of subjects. Here are a few examples

03/07/2012 03:06:44 AM · #5
Originally posted by hmbutler:
I'm just bumping this up a little because I'm curious to hear other peoples opinions as well. I want to get a micro/macro lens for my D700 too, mainly for use in newborn photography... is the Nikon 105mm the best option? Come on macro experts, show us what you know? Lol

Get a fast focuser. I've got the Tamron 90mm and it is the sharpest lens I own, and it takes some simply amazing photos color- and contrast-wise, but you could take a nap before it finds accurate focus (it's primarily a macro lens after all, so I mostly use it in manual). My son is now four months and I don't have a sharp shot of him yet. Awesome lens, but not for infants/babies/anything that moves. Fast at 2.8, not fast at focusing. Something to consider if you want to shoot babies (with a camera).
 03/07/2012 03:14:52 AM · #6
Originally posted by bohemka:
Originally posted by hmbutler:
I'm just bumping this up a little because I'm curious to hear other peoples opinions as well. I want to get a micro/macro lens for my D700 too, mainly for use in newborn photography... is the Nikon 105mm the best option? Come on macro experts, show us what you know? Lol

Get a fast focuser. I've got the Tamron 90mm and it is the sharpest lens I own, and it takes some simply amazing photos color- and contrast-wise, but you could take a nap before it finds accurate focus (it's primarily a macro lens after all, so I mostly use it in manual). My son is now four months and I don't have a sharp shot of him yet. Awesome lens, but not for infants/babies/anything that moves. Fast at 2.8, not fast at focusing. Something to consider if you want to shoot babies (with a camera).


+1

I have this lens and it's wonderful. But it's very slow.
 03/07/2012 03:35:11 AM · #7
Originally posted by hmbutler:
I'm just bumping this up a little because I'm curious to hear other peoples opinions as well. I want to get a micro/macro lens for my D700 too, mainly for use in newborn photography... is the Nikon 105mm the best option? Come on macro experts, show us what you know? Lol


Sorry, I'm newbie not an expert but I have 105VR. Basically, I don't use auto focus and VR most of time for macro same as bohemka. 105VR lens is very heavy and feel unbalanced on tripod. Tamron 90 and 105mm AFD version are both exccelent macro lens worth consider. For 105VR, I hacked an old Metz CT-45 bracket to balance it on monopod. If just for macro, it's a very sharp lens. I have same opinion as HarveyG that IF be much better for macro because I attached BR-5 with another reverse prime for higher magnification (there is no Nikon lens as advance as Canon MPE-65 yet). I only use 50mm for non-flash newborn baby, never try with this lens.

Message edited by author 2012-03-07 03:35:55.
 03/07/2012 01:08:02 PM · #8
Nikkor 105mm review
105 mm f/1.8 Nikkor
[AIS] 4.5
(F4)
4.5-5
(D2X)
IR:
4.5-5
(Fuji S3 UVIR, D200 modified) A nicely balancing lens that is sturdily built and fairly heavy. It produces very sharp and contrasty images within its optimal range from f/4 to f/11. Wide open, image contrast is lowered by internal flare, so the f/1.8 setting shouldn't be used indiscriminately. It is moderately resistant to flare and ghosts under normal shooting conditions. Set it to f/5.6 if you are keen on getting the maximum quality from this lens.
On the D2X, the flare at f/1.8 is even more prominent and it looks more like residual spherical aberration to me. Anyway, image detail is very good at f/1.8 despite the lowered contrast, and by stopping down to f/2.8 you do get very high contrast, and superb image sharpness. The excellent image quality holds up surprisingly well to near f/16, but from here you do get some softening mediated by diffraction effects. There is virtually no chromatic aberration (CA) to be seen at the normal aperture settings, but a tiny amount of CA begins to creep in when the lens is stopped down beyond f/11.

IR: No issues were detected when using this lens for IR work on my Fuji S3Pro UVIR camera. Testing with the D200 (modified) confirms this information.
AF Nikkor 105 mm f/2 DC 5
(D1X, D70)
5
(D2X)
4.5-5
(FX: D3X) The 105/2 is the shortest of the two Nikkors offering a defocus control (DC) feature, and possibly a better performer than the longer 135/2 DC. In fact, the 105 DC gives a true stellar optical performance and is one of the finest Nikkors ever made. It comes in a professional-looking crinkle finish and the construction is metal rather than plastics - thank you, Nikon. However, all numerals and lettering on its barrel are just printed, not engraved, which is a pity considering the elevated price this lens commands.

Its optical design includes rear element (RF) focusing, which is a special case of internal (IF) focusing, so the length of the lens won't change while it is focused. The near limit is 0.9 m, which allows for tightly composed shots. AF operation is fairly quick but not noise-free. As manual focusing is fast and easy thanks to a generously-sized focusing collar, the AF performance isn't an issue at all and focusing the lens manually probably will be the preferred option (at least, for me). In common with other high-speed lenses, the 105/2 DC snaps positively into focus. You can be assured of high-quality imagery even at f/2, and from f/2.8-f/4 picture quality is stunning. Beyond f/5.6 performance begins to decline, so this is clearly a lens built for speed. Across the entire aperture range, image contrast is high and colours are vividly rendered. The RF system, however, may introduce slight colour fringing in highlights outside the focused zone. Many IF lenses exhibit this trait.

There is a sliding-out sunshade which, fortunately, can be screwed firmly into place. Be aware though that the threads are finely pitched and the hood occasionally gets stuck in the locked position. The lens has a 72 mm filter size which is at variance with the current 77 mm standard for the Nikon professional lens line, but the smaller size does keep the lens more compact. The front element is deeply recessed and the propensitiy for lens flare is low. Even under adverse light situations there is virtually no ghosting either, so this is a perfect lens for available-light shooting. The superb optical performance at wide aperture settings helps in this respect, too. Geometric distortion is virtually non-existent, a desirable trait if you are into architectural photography or suchlike applications.

The DC feature actually is a user-controllable over- or undercorrection of residual spherical aberration in the out-of-focus zones. A rotating collar adjacent to the focusing ring allows setting DC to operate in front of, or to the rear of, the plane on which the lens is focused. In conjunction with a nicely rounded aperture opening, this allows the bokeh of the image to be precisely managed. If the DC setting coincides with the selected aperture, nicely glowing highlights and pleasingly smooth images are obtained, but still a biting sharpness is present in the image. You can go one further by maxing out the DC setting to get very visible softening of the non-focused areas. This depends on using quite wide apertures because the deliberately introduced spherical aberration is largely eliminated when the lens is stopped well down. The best effects are obtained in the f/2 to f/5.6 range. It is difficult to envision the optical effects from defocusing the image unless you practice this for a while. Each alteration of the DC setting demands refocusing the lens so operating the 105/2 in DC mode can be cumbersome for the novice user.

I just recently acquired this lens, but it has quickly become one of my favourite lenses on D1X. For my own shooting with the 105/2, I tend to work with the defocus control switched off. However, DC is a nifty feature when the need for it arises, such as in portraiture, and being incorporated in the lens design, DC is literally at your fingertips, with no extras needed.
On the super-high resolution D3X, you need to get he focus perfect otherwise you'll see a lot of red or green fringing. I've downrated this lens a little with this camera saince its flaws are more visible and you really need to stop down to f/4-f/5.6 to get bitingly sharp images.
105 mm f/2.5 Nikkor-P (Sonnar Type)
[non-AI] 4.5
(F2, F3) This portrait Nikkor inherited the Sonnar optical formula (5 elements in 3 groups) of the legendary rangefinder 'S' version from 1953. The Sonnar is easily identified by its smallish rear element compared to more recent versions. It was an extremely sharp lens for its time and the optical quality still surpasses that of many modern lenses. It underwent cosmetic changes of the exterior only and stayed in production until 1971. It is a great performer at f/5.6 and provides for good performance even wide open, but flare could be a problem here.
105 mm f/2.5 Nikkor-Pâ€Â¢C (Gauss Type)
[lenses labelled Pâ€Â¢C are non-AI,
otherwise AI, AIS ] 5
(F2, F4, F5)
5
(D2X)
5
(FX: D3, D3X)

IR:
5
(D200 modified, S3Pro UVIR) Nikon redesigned the popular 105 mm in 1972 and choose to use a new Gauss-type design (5 elements in 4 groups) instead of the earlier tested and tried Sonnar formula. Probably they did this because of the 105 mm's growing popularity as a portrait lens. Since the Gauss formula gave better performance towards the near focusing limit this seems a wise move. The first batch evidently were released without multi-coating and carried the 'P' designation (I own one of them), but these were quickly replaced by multicoated 'Pâ€Â¢C'-labelled lenses.
Current versions are outfitted with rubberised focusing collars and the lens data are removed. Compared to the earlier type of the 105/2.5 Nikkor, the new formula offered even better image definition, enhanced close-range performance, and a much improved colour saturation for the multi-coated versions. It performed better than its predecessor wide open, and delivered tremendously sharp images from f/4 onwards. Flare is only a problem under the most extreme of adverse light conditions and ghosting is rarely a threat to image quality.
During the years, it has undergone some external changes, but the optical formula survived to this day. This is one of the truly great lenses of all times and a definite Nikon classic. It easily holds its own again any modern lens - what a pity that this prime lens lost its popularity during the onslaught of low-speed, medium-quality AF zooms. Oh well, the general public always get what they want - don't they.
The 105/2.5 is a killer combination on the D3. Even set wide open, high-contrast. bitingly sharp images result. At f/2.5, the extreme corners are a little soft, mainly due to field curvature, but at f/4 and beyond the entire frame is crisp and clear. Image quality holds up well to beyond f/16 where diffraction rears its fuzzy head.
IR: excellent performance, no hot spots.
Added note: My 105/2.5 PC finally underwent CPU-matrix surgery and now works on all my digital cameras. This was a test project of mine. While the maximum aperture of the chip doesn't match the lens (2.8 vs 2.5), so far metering seems little affected by this discrepancy. Later, I replaced the first chip with a custom-programmed CPU so as to have the true f/2.5 reading. Metering is still spot-on.

eta my newest lens My new mission is to get the fastest Nikkor glass I can. With the advent of higher and higher megapixels, the lenses will likely be the shortfall. Therefore, the very best professional grade lenses will be the work horses on the camera's of tomorrow.

Message edited by author 2012-03-07 13:19:21.
 03/07/2012 01:38:54 PM · #9
Just went to pick up the Nikkor 105mm AF-S, but they were out of stock. Even though the camera store next door had them in, I rarely patronize another store unless I have a good reason.

CS
 03/07/2012 01:51:09 PM · #10
I freakin' LOVE my 105VR.
 03/07/2012 03:15:42 PM · #11
I like the older Ai manual lenses on the D7000, and they do everything that I need to do.
Most of the time, shooting macro outdoors involves things moving around in any breeze or air movement that's going on, and VR does not stop that, even when shooting with a tripod and the VR off. When you are at macro ranges, just a slight amount of subject movement will move the subject across a lot of the frame.
For things that don't fly or crawl away, I like the 55, 2.8, or the early model 55, 3.5. For things that scare away easily, the 105, 2.8 works great.
Focus range is very thin in micro ranges, so AF can have a problem selecting exactly where you wish the focus to be. My personal experience is that AF is not really necessary, since just moving in or out a couple of MM can get the focus where you want it to be. For tripod work, a focusing rail may be helpful if you are shooting stationary subjects.

@ Flash, The 105 f2.5, pre Ai, is an outstanding short tele, but it can't focus closer than about 5 ft without using extension rings. There are a couple of those in my "once in a while" bag.
I see that you have discovered Bjorn R's lens reviews pages. His advice and reviews have been very helpful, and very accurate in my quest to collect a good supply of the older Nikon glass.
ETA, all my macro glass is the older manual Nikkor versions. I also use extension tubes with some of the other primes. Using an 11mm ring with a fairly wide lens, like 28 or 35mm yields unusual perspectives because of the proximity of the sensor to the subject, and the wider angle of view. With a 15 fisheye, and a 11mm ext, the front element touches the subject before running out of close focusing range.

Message edited by author 2012-03-07 15:19:39.
 03/08/2012 12:05:14 PM · #12
Originally posted by MelonMusketeer:
I see that you have discovered Bjorn R's lens reviews pages. His advice and reviews have been very helpful, and very accurate in my quest to collect a good supply of the older Nikon glass.


Yes. I think I stumbled upon his page about 6 or 7 years ago and have used his lens reviews to decide upon some pretty amazing glass. I most like his rating system on various bodies and his indepth assessment and comparison. I personally consider his opinion FIRST when considering anything Nikon. Morgan, here on DPC is another who is quite knowledeable on Nikon/Nikkor and whose opinion I have relied on in the past.
 03/08/2012 01:26:18 PM · #13
Just pulled the trigger on the Nikkor 105mm VR.
Time to start saving up for either the 200-400mm or the 400mm.

CS
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