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01/30/2013 01:51:24 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by SDW: I wish the US could come to an agreement on the pipeline from Canada. I think it would help our prices and Canada. But I don't know enough about it to say one way or the other. I guess I need to read up on that a little more. |
The truth is that oil would belong to the oil companies and would be sold on the global market. That means that most likely it would be exported. For some reason people want to believe that oil produced domestically is restricted to the domestic market. It doesn't work that way. |
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01/30/2013 02:09:23 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Spork99: Originally posted by SDW: I wish the US could come to an agreement on the pipeline from Canada. I think it would help our prices and Canada. But I don't know enough about it to say one way or the other. I guess I need to read up on that a little more. |
The truth is that oil would belong to the oil companies and would be sold on the global market. That means that most likely it would be exported. For some reason people want to believe that oil produced domestically is restricted to the domestic market. It doesn't work that way. |
And the people who's backyards it's going into aren't too keen on it either. |
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01/30/2013 02:13:21 PM · #28 |
Remember the fight to open the Alaskan North slope to oil development to lower prices here in the US? Here is where Alaskan oil goes.
South Korea 46.15%
Japan 24.51%
China 16.52%
Taiwan 8.31%
Total Exports 95.49%
info from the Energy Dept
Simply put, Oil is an international resource. The companies that find and process it, feed an international market, and they will sell to the most profitable place they can. If the impact of exploiting a local resource is going to be high, do not expect a lowering of fuel prices to offset those costs. Once oil is out of the ground it is no longer a local resource. |
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01/30/2013 02:30:15 PM · #29 |
does it really matter where it goes? since prices are dependent on supply and demand, if you increase the supply available to the world, the price should (theoretically) decrease. |
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01/30/2013 02:34:12 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB: ...
Once oil is out of the ground it is no longer a local resource. |
Could you expand on that? Does that hold also for felled trees and carrots? |
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01/30/2013 02:44:48 PM · #31 |
You will hear arguments that rapidly exploiting local resources will lower local costs, and they will, but no more than they will lower costs internationally. If exploiting those local resources has additional costs to your area in construction costs, cleanup costs, or inconvenience of for instance having a large pipe split your backyard in half, those problems will have local costs, while the benefits are international.
Originally posted by tnun: Originally posted by BrennanOB: ...
Once oil is out of the ground it is no longer a local resource. |
Could you expand on that? Does that hold also for felled trees and carrots? |
Carrots are mostly a local product, produced and sold locally. Trees are more regional. Oil is international. The market they enter is dependent on the size of the company they require to bring the product to market. There are no mom and pop local source petroleum companies. The only businesses capable of dealing with the costs and complexities of oil are international and huge. I have never found a source for oil at my local farmer's market. Oil has 1 marketplace. Trees in the US have about 5 regional markets. Carrots..I have no idea, but plenty more.
Message edited by author 2013-01-30 14:47:30. |
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01/30/2013 03:52:19 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by mike_311: does it really matter where it goes? since prices are dependent on supply and demand, if you increase the supply available to the world, the price should (theoretically) decrease. |
In one sense, you're right, however, the market isn't really a "free market" simply driven by supply/demand since other government or cartel controlled suppliers manipulate the supply in ways that would be illegal here. The market is driven as much by fear (of unrest in the Middle East, of OPEC and maybe even gremlins). |
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01/30/2013 04:19:24 PM · #33 |
Thank you Brennan. This is interesting to think about, the devil's bargain with big technology... Well, it's been happening, I guess, since bronze. But the carrots aren't out of the woods yet: GMO seeds are marching across the fruiting plain. |
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01/30/2013 05:31:11 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Spork99: In one sense, you're right, however, the market isn't really a "free market" simply driven by supply/demand since other government or cartel controlled suppliers manipulate the supply in ways that would be illegal here. The market is driven as much by fear (of unrest in the Middle East, of OPEC and maybe even gremlins). |
Our leg of the Cartel/ suppliers/ producers wheel of bulging profits in big oil are the speculators. Oil traders set the price of oil futures by speculating based on the probable cost of oil at some point in the future, and buying and selling contracts based on their expectations.
"In essence, says energy analyst Stephen Schork, a lot of oil speculation works like insurance. Countries and companies that need oil are willing to pay a “risk premium†now in order to ensure that they’ll have oil at a reasonable price in the future, even if shortages erupt. Schork adds that oil speculators are typically piggybacking on fundamentals — like the fact that global supplies are tight. By contrast, in the natural gas market, speculators are actually pushing prices down to decade-low levels. “That’s because the fundamentals in that market are the polar opposite,†Schork says." link
That speculation has ensured that oil prices have not dipped during the current oil glut worldwide,
The concern is that players in that market are now so few that they are colluding to increase profitability rather that act purely as a prognosticating tool. Since their only goal is to assure profitability to their shareholders, that is a legitimate concern. So we do have a perfectly legal method of market manipulation right here, |
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01/30/2013 07:11:57 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Venser: Originally posted by Tiny: I can honestly say I have never bought gas. | I own a car and I'm almost in your boat.
In three years, my wife and I put 18,500 kms on our car.
In three years, I ran just over 23,000 kms. |
Ha...some of my co-workers have this running thing beat all to hell. You have no idea at the number of times they have jumped to conclusions in a 3 year period. :O)
Ray |
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01/30/2013 07:25:43 PM · #36 |
FWIW things do have to be put into perspective, in terms of the amount of fuel you use in relation to where you live. I didnèt even get my first car til I was 33. Up til then I was living either in Ottawa or Vancouver, and biked or walked or took transit everywhere.
Then I returned to Ontario and now live out in the country. When I was training horses and had clients scattered all over hellès half-acre, I could easily rack up 700-100km a week. Now I am driving approx 1000km per month, mostly cause I now work close to home and make infrequent trips to Ottawa.
Gas prices now are $123.9 per litre out here in Snafflesland. So I plan to invade Ogdensburg this coming Friday and do what hundreds if not thousands of Canucks do when our gas prices soar sky-high...go across the border and tank up. Why do you think about 94% of us live right near the US border...you think we like you guys or somethinÉ ;-p |
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01/30/2013 07:32:36 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by snaffles: FWIW things do have to be put into perspective, in terms of the amount of fuel you use in relation to where you live. I didnèt even get my first car til I was 33. Up til then I was living either in Ottawa or Vancouver, and biked or walked or took transit everywhere.
Then I returned to Ontario and now live out in the country. When I was training horses and had clients scattered all over hellès half-acre, I could easily rack up 700-100km a week. Now I am driving approx 1000km per month, mostly cause I now work close to home and make infrequent trips to Ottawa.
Gas prices now are $123.9 per litre out here in Snafflesland. So I plan to invade Ogdensburg this coming Friday and do what hundreds if not thousands of Canucks do when our gas prices soar sky-high...go across the border and tank up. Why do you think about 94% of us live right near the US border...you think we like you guys or somethinÉ ;-p |
Woww!!!!! $123 per litre!! That really is a rip off. I'll sell it to you for $120 per litre! :P
Message edited by author 2013-01-30 19:32:55. |
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01/30/2013 07:53:21 PM · #38 |
I sure hope that Snaffles has other business in Ogdensburg cause when one factors in the 80km to get there, the $5.50 to cross the bridge and the time expended, it isn't much of a saving.
Now, since uncle Raymee goes to the UPS store on a regular basis, and purchases groceries from Price Choppers where the nice folks give him a cumulative discount on gas purchases ($0.40)per gallon the last time I went... then it is worth it.
Have a nice trip.
Ray |
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02/01/2013 12:01:36 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by RayEthier: I sure hope that Snaffles has other business in Ogdensburg cause when one factors in the 80km to get there, the $5.50 to cross the bridge and the time expended, it isn't much of a saving.
Now, since uncle Raymee goes to the UPS store on a regular basis, and purchases groceries from Price Choppers where the nice folks give him a cumulative discount on gas purchases ($0.40)per gallon the last time I went... then it is worth it.
Have a nice trip.
Ray |
Actually I managed to wrangle my way into a lineup for gas @ $114.9 so I tanked up for $40 last night :-) And O'burg may be 80k for you but only about 65k for me, and I can always try to stalk the Amish with the 300mm :-) As for Price Chopper I find most of their stuff priced just as high if not higher than local. |
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