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10/15/2011 07:33:33 PM · #26 |
wonder if that would be cheaper than gas... |
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10/15/2011 07:34:04 PM · #27 |
| Go to prison in Texas and you can make your own shoes. |
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10/15/2011 07:40:40 PM · #28 |
| really they make shoes there..odd |
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10/15/2011 07:58:30 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by o2bskating:
wonder if that would be cheaper than gas... |
Probably, but we should still throw them a bone and pay their college tuition. ...because that's what he wants. |
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10/15/2011 08:45:50 PM · #30 |
That was a very unfair interview. You might want to ask who the sponsors were.
Egad. Sorry about the shoes - I thought I was blessing the issue with the quenching waters of perspective, but it seems to have sprouted a tangle of tangents. |
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10/15/2011 09:02:45 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
How does what the protesters are wearing influence their message? The fact that they use products from major corporations is about as surprising as finding that fish are often wet. The protesters are protesting the fact that the only options Americans have are the products of a very few providers, and that the corporations have not only limited the consumer choices we have, but are now limiting the political choices we can expect to have.
If you can dismiss their opinions because they use they only products available to them, then you are dismissing their protest based on the very thing they are protesting |
Nice one. Thank you. |
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10/15/2011 09:04:19 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
So they're upset because they can only get their shoes from:
3
361 Degrees
A
Adidas
Airness
Alden Shoe Company
[...]
W
Stuart Weitzman
X
Xtep
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
How does what the protesters are wearing influence their message? The fact that they use products from major corporations is about as surprising as finding that fish are often wet. The protesters are protesting the fact that the only options Americans have are the products of a very few providers, and that the corporations have not only limited the consumer choices we have, but are now limiting the political choices we can expect to have.
If you can dismiss their opinions because they use they only products available to them, then you are dismissing their protest based on the very thing they are protesting |
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I suggest you do a Pareto chart for your list.
PS I forgot to add - in terms of market share. It will show very clearly (assuming your list did not miss any big corporates) how the business is concentrated in the hands of the very few.
Message edited by author 2011-10-15 21:11:00. |
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10/15/2011 09:17:08 PM · #33 |
| So where will the change come from if the power is concentrated in the hands of the corrupt politicians representing big money? And why do we need to be represented at all these days? Internet has enabled everyone to vote directly on the issues, no need for intermediaries. |
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10/15/2011 09:36:10 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
So they're upset because they can only get their shoes from:
3
361 Degrees
A
Adidas
Airness
Alden Shoe Company
..... |
Missed pretty much all my shoes.... Dr Martins, RM Williams and Clark's... What does that say about me :-)
Originally posted by MargaretN:
So where will the change come from if the power is concentrated in the hands of the corrupt politicians representing big money? And why do we need to be represented at all these days? |
You think your represented.... lol... really? I have not shared that delusion for a very long time. |
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10/15/2011 09:53:46 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by robs:
Originally posted by kenskid:
So they're upset because they can only get their shoes from:
3
361 Degrees
A
Adidas
Airness
Alden Shoe Company
..... |
Missed pretty much all my shoes.... Dr Martins, RM Williams and Clark's... What does that say about me :-)
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You're an Aussie? |
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10/15/2011 09:54:22 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by robs:
You think your represented.... lol... really? I have not shared that delusion for a very long time. |
So what happened to democracy? Or was it always an illusion?
Message edited by author 2011-10-15 21:55:02. |
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10/15/2011 10:41:46 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by MargaretN:
Originally posted by robs:
You think your represented.... lol... really? I have not shared that delusion for a very long time. |
So what happened to democracy? Or was it always an illusion? |
we never had a democracy, its always been a republic.
but i'll chime in on these protests, also I'll speaking on behalf of my experience in the US. Your experience may vary but i doubt its too far off base.
i don't like it. First off the people protesting most have no idea what they are protesting, nor do they have any solution. there is misguided anger at the rich in the country, its a serious divide that is growing and its scary. just because people are well off doesn't them part of the problem nor do i think wall street on the whole is to blame. yes there are bernie madoffs in this world but the blame the entire banking system is off base. the banks have to work within the rules the federal government set us and if the federal government forces bank to lend money to those who cant repay than its not their fault, they need to please their shareholders and that's coming at the expense of the rest of us. Also, they also paid back the bailout money, the same cant be said for the car companies.
the entire US economy has been based on creating debt for quite sometime now, for selling the notion that home ownership is an entitlement that everyone should have regardless of there income status, that anyone can get a credit card and buy whatever they want and that everyone can go to college all while racking up debt on debt and not worrying about how to pay it back.
Don't blame wallstreet and don't blame the banks. Blame the dopes in government for creating the false premise and the regulations to encourage it.
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10/16/2011 01:13:36 AM · #38 |
OK, I give up. The core problem in the US is not going to go away. The poor, the unemployed, the homeless have themselves to blame. THIS IS THE AMERICAN WAY.
Back to the real world :(
And occasionally share some photos. |
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10/16/2011 01:19:14 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
Well...when I see the occupiers on smartphones, carrying video cams and eating Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream, I kind of got the feeling that they really don't know what they actually want. They rail agains the corporations and then I see them using the products of the corporations. They are also all over Facebook and Twitter...two more giant corporations that made their CEOs BILLIONS. Other than that....Meh.....
Originally posted by MargaretN:
Originally posted by BAMartin:
I guess because those of us in the US have been seeing this in every major city in the US for the past few weeks, the excitement has worn off. |
So what do Americans plan to do? Let the bankers continue with their greed and lack of control? Get your unemployment even higher? Have more than third of population live in poverty? BUT WAIT - it is their own fault! Poor, unemployed, homeless - have themselves to blame for that! Isn't this the American Way? |
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The point isn't that all corporations are bad and should be destroyed. Corporations aren't people and when they make profits, they should pay taxes. They also shouldn't be able to buy influence over government, which they do. Corporations have far more influence over how we're governed than the people do. It's not "We the corporation" written into the constitution, is it?
The government isn't accountable to the people anymore, they report to the CEO's of the companies that make the biggest donations.
And the banks shouldn't have taken $400,000,000,000.00 of taxpayer money, claiming they were on the verge of collapse, promising that they would be then be able to lend that money to people when instead, they dropped lending levels to historic lows and paid record CEO and employee bonuses to the same people that fucked things up in the first place.
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10/16/2011 01:35:07 AM · #40 |
| we've been duped I tell ya. let us gather by the river. I got shoes. |
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10/16/2011 04:21:27 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
And the banks shouldn't have taken $400,000,000,000.00 of taxpayer money, claiming they were on the verge of collapse, promising that they would be then be able to lend that money to people when instead, they dropped lending levels to historic lows and paid record CEO and employee bonuses to the same people that fucked things up in the first place. |
I think your blame is misplaced on this one - if the gov't offered you $400B to "keep your business from collapse", would you take it? Especially after you donated generously to the campaigns of those in power? The problem is that the government authorized it. If both sides held their own reps accountable instead of constantly pointing the finger at the other side - which keeps them both in power - we might actually see some changes in our government. If you (not you, Spork, the collective "you") did some research and found out who in the government bailed out the banks, you'd see it is the same list of politicians (left and right) that received large campaign donations from these banks or financial institutions. Many people believe that things would have been terribly worse if they had not been bailed out, but many also believe that we would have gotten through it much quicker and been better off for it.
As long as the left can co-opt this movement and keep the anger aimed solely at the opposing political party, everything will stay the same. The worst possible outcome for the current power structure is that these protesters and the protesters on the right decide to coalesce around the one thing I believe they both agree on - that corporate and special interest wealth and power has WAY too much TOTAL influence on our system of government. The Tea Party and OWS people will never agree on most philosophical or ideological principles, but I still believe there is common ground that could be addressed and may serve to unite people in a more productive way.
Full disclosure: I am a former liberal, programmed to automatically vote Democrat and hate anything anyone on the right ever offers. Evolved to a fiscal conservative, but still somewhat socially liberal. I was a "Republican" for a few years and while they represent some of my views and values more closely than Democrats, I became disenchanted with them when I couldn't see much difference between either party - the rhetoric is different, but the results are the same and I am more interested in results than ideaology. Not that I voted for him or or agreed with his plans, but Obama is more Bush-like than Bush was and I am blown away that the people that supported him don't feel betrayed - much like many on the right who supported Bush felt betrayed by many of his policies - patriot act, overreaching, overspending, etc.
I've had enough of ALL of them and enough of the partisan division amongst ourselves. I'd like to vote for a viable third party candidate, but the media (a cheerleader for the status quo) convinces me that there is no such thing as a viable third party.
While I may participate in some sarcastic political sniping, I am truly more interested in hearing people discuss some viable solutions to these problems that we are all aware of - and I try to give people who may be the polar political opposite to me, the benefit of the doubt that they believe their positions are in the best interest of everyone - I believe most people have most people's best interests at heart regardless of where they are in the political spectrum. Yet we always hear things like "they want to kill your grandmother" or "they want to turn this country into communist country" - anything to keep us polarized. I also try not to rely on only information sources that I know are aligned with me politically and have found that this is the only way I can try and discern any truth - to whatever extent that is possible.
my two cents anyway. |
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10/16/2011 05:01:02 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
If both sides held their own reps accountable instead of constantly pointing the finger at the other side - which keeps them both in power - we might actually see some changes in our government. |
There is a widespread belief that if we just threw the bums out, we would be fine. That our system of government if fine, but for some amazing reason we keep electing thieves and rascals.
There is no chance for a person to be elected to public office who is not beholden to monied interests. To run for office, you have to have millions of dollars, once in office you have to spend about half your time pimping yourself so you can be re-elected. No one, no matter how pure they start out can hold office without compromise in a system rigged to protect the interests of donors over those of the electorate.
In California we have term limits, we have instituted a permanent "throw the bums out" and things have just gotten worse with more partisan bitterness and less willingness to do the people's business.
Message edited by author 2011-10-16 05:02:27. |
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10/16/2011 06:47:21 AM · #43 |
A junior Florida Rep who was true to his beliefs (he has been already defeated) said the problem is simple.
Every week someone would come into his office with five million dollars to spend on an issue,
they told him: "we can spend it for your campaign or against it"
So you either bow to special interests, and the most powerful one of the day, or you are broken and thrown aside.
Throwing the bums out is fine, but when you just elect a new group of bums, it is just a waste of time.
Change the system to prevent the electing of bums (or bum conversion) would be more intelligent and mature.
p.s. to the British, "throw the bums out" must be extra funny... An American bum lives on the street, a British one is his chair... |
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10/16/2011 08:26:57 AM · #44 |
As long as our votes are for sale, we'll be electing peddlers and scoundrels to office. It's that simple to me. We close our eyes to the immorality of our government and commerce as long as there's something in it for us. Next time you see a politician and the leaders of some special interest smiling at you from the business page, all lined up around a huge cardboard check with 7 zeros, ask yourself: how many votes did this check buy? The politicians can only buy our votes if they're for sale, you know.
We generally get what government we elect. We generally get what commerce we're willing to pay for.
Short summary: hate your govt, hate your bank? Look in the mirror. |
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10/16/2011 09:11:34 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
snip... I am truly more interested in hearing people discuss some viable solutions to these problems that we are all aware of |
there's a remarkable similarity between your "political evolving" and my own, especially a desire for a viable 3rd party candidate. With such a large percentage of the electorate claiming themselves "independent" it never fails to amaze me there isn't such a candidate that would win a high level election. Of course, the media loves the status quo and there is a LARGE block of american voters who just believe anything their favorite media source tells them...
why not remove money from the equation altogether? if lobbyists were removed (outlawed) and make elections based on PLATFORM and SUPPORT from the people; for instance, depending on the higher office you seek, the more individual signatures you need to become a candidate on the ticket. Then media time (newspaper, mailings, tv ads etc) are all federally funded with an even allocation to each candidate to make their case. Remove the money, remove the corruption.
Of course the realist in me knows that the only ones able to remove the money from the equation are the ones who benefit the most from it, so it would take nothing short of a revolution to change things back in favor of the common man. |
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10/16/2011 09:20:03 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by MargaretN:
We are currently in Barcelona (Spain) and got caught up today in a protest that started with a few hundred people and grew to many thousands as the day went on. Have you seen similar protests today? |
I was at the last part of a the same event here in Perth Western Australia, needs more organising and structure with a emphasis on spreading the facts of the situation and why you should care, i say go people power! we are on the verge of something big and its about time imho. we also have to put up with CHOGM here at the end of the month with huge amounts of money and control being weilded in the name of political and economic change of which their will be neither except to continue the status quo of elitist hidden agenda's and economic slavery of the masses. lol but anyway i hope i havent spoilt the forums thread ;O) back to the photography hehehe |
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10/16/2011 09:30:42 AM · #47 |
| if you made taking money for personal gain as a politician a form of treason against the country once the first politician landed in Leavenworth i think it would stop pretty quick. |
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10/16/2011 09:31:46 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by o2bskating:
if you made taking money for personal gain as a politician a form of treason against the country once the first politician landed in Leavenworth i think it would stop pretty quick. |
excellent idea. |
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10/16/2011 09:32:41 AM · #49 |
| and we need to get rid of government right down to the inner core and start again, remove fiat money altogether and lock up the 1% elite where they deserve to be rotting in gaol for all their duplicity including the economists and bankers who took the public for all theyre worth and give the resources back to people in a logical and fair way... oh well thats my illusion on the delusion we already have ;O) there is no democracy only hipocracy and dogma of the controlling state that teaches kids to be dumber than ever... |
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10/16/2011 09:37:09 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by FourPointX:
Originally posted by o2bskating:
if you made taking money for personal gain as a politician a form of treason against the country once the first politician landed in Leavenworth i think it would stop pretty quick. |
excellent idea. |
only one problem with that, in prison you get 3 square meals, a roof and a bed and toilet, who said they deserve such luxuries? ;O) |
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