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10/12/2011 11:25:35 AM · #101 |
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
I feel like it is starting this result in a religious debate and that is not what I intended this thread to be. I mentioned Christianity for the sole reason that I had to put it in to show the circumstance at hand.
If this does not stop I will ask to lock the thread. Please, I don't want this to be a debate on religion. I was asking about my and my roommate not the beliefs of everyone related to their religious views compared to the previous poster. |
In this case? They're one and the same my man - it's like talking about birds without discussing feathers. |
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10/12/2011 11:29:05 AM · #102 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
I feel like it is starting this result in a religious debate and that is not what I intended this thread to be. I mentioned Christianity for the sole reason that I had to put it in to show the circumstance at hand.
If this does not stop I will ask to lock the thread. Please, I don't want this to be a debate on religion. I was asking about my and my roommate not the beliefs of everyone related to their religious views compared to the previous poster. |
In this case? They're one and the same my man - it's like talking about birds without discussing feathers. |
In this case it lasted for 3 pages without a religious debate... |
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10/12/2011 11:32:51 AM · #103 |
| Marko -- I respect and admire that you are working to improve yourself and live up to the standards you have set for yourself. Navigating life is not easy. This thread has given me a lot to think about in reflecting on my own actions. I hope things work out between you and your roommate and especially for the roommate and young woman. You will all be in my prayers. |
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10/12/2011 11:43:46 AM · #104 |
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
I feel like it is starting this result in a religious debate and that is not what I intended this thread to be. I mentioned Christianity for the sole reason that I had to put it in to show the circumstance at hand.
If this does not stop I will ask to lock the thread. Please, I don't want this to be a debate on religion. I was asking about my and my roommate not the beliefs of everyone related to their religious views compared to the previous poster. |
In this case? They're one and the same my man - it's like talking about birds without discussing feathers. |
In this case it lasted for 3 pages without a religious debate... |
That line of logic is no good. Just because something didn't happen sooner, doesn't mean it's not going to happen. There may be some sort of logical sequitur with your roommate's situation here. :)
In the end, the thread's entire debate revolves around your religion, how the hell did you expect that it shouldn't come up for discussion?
And before you argue that it's not about religion, let me assure you, it is... entirely. |
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10/12/2011 11:45:14 AM · #105 |
To you (Cory), perhaps.
Take out the Christian parts.
Two guys are roommates at a college. They both claim in some form or fashion to believe the same way about something. One does it, one does not.
One gets caught doing what he professes to not believe is right. The second one expresses his opinion about said actions.
Feeling some remorse and questioning whether he reacted in the right way or not, he brings it to a forum where he knows people are willing to express their opinions on anything, and gets said opinions on his actions.
So, IMO, taking Christianity out of the discussion doesn't change the discussion.
eta: removed any "religious sounding words"
Message edited by author 2011-10-12 11:53:21. |
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10/12/2011 11:54:32 AM · #106 |
Originally posted by Cory:
That line of logic is no good. Just because something didn't happen sooner, doesn't mean it's not going to happen. There may be some sort of logical sequitur with your roommate's situation here. :)
In the end, the thread's entire debate revolves around your religion, how the hell did you expect that it shouldn't come up for discussion?
And before you argue that it's not about religion, let me assure you, it is... entirely. |
You are wrong Cory,
He only stated he went to a Christian school to convey the point that there is a contract in place regarded the prohibition of premarital sex.
"I attend a Christian school here in Florida and one of the rules here is you can not have premarital sex (you sign a contract saying that you won't). He walks in tonight around 1:00am here. He notices I am still awake and starts to spill the news... "
It was not his intention to bring the actual religion into the thread, it was everyone else (including you) who misinterpreted his point. His post would not make sense without that statement. |
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10/12/2011 11:55:06 AM · #107 |
Love the sinner, hate the sin.
Your path is clear. It seems that you're just looking for an excuse to get out of doing what your faith tells you to do. |
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10/12/2011 12:01:48 PM · #108 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Oh, and I generally do dislike the human race, and this sort of behavior is just one of the reasons. There are however, a few islands of humanity which I do care for, deeply. |
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
Maybe Christians fall on their face so often because they aim for a high standard? |
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10/12/2011 12:04:37 PM · #109 |
Originally posted by sinistral_leo:
Originally posted by Cory:
That line of logic is no good. Just because something didn't happen sooner, doesn't mean it's not going to happen. There may be some sort of logical sequitur with your roommate's situation here. :)
In the end, the thread's entire debate revolves around your religion, how the hell did you expect that it shouldn't come up for discussion?
And before you argue that it's not about religion, let me assure you, it is... entirely. |
You are wrong Cory,
He only stated he went to a Christian school to convey the point that there is a contract in place regarded the prohibition of premarital sex.
"I attend a Christian school here in Florida and one of the rules here is you can not have premarital sex (you sign a contract saying that you won't). He walks in tonight around 1:00am here. He notices I am still awake and starts to spill the news... "
It was not his intention to bring the actual religion into the thread, it was everyone else (including you) who misinterpreted his point. His post would not make sense without that statement. |
Isn't part of Marko's dilemna the fact that he himself wishes to be a good Christian? |
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10/12/2011 12:16:43 PM · #110 |
I think people are forgetting just who is the victim in all this.
If a man seduces a virgin not betrothed and lies with her, he shall surely pay a dowry for her to become his wife. If her father refuses to give her to him, he shall still pay money equivalent to the dowry of virgins. Exodus 22:16
This girls father should get his dowry, baby or not. Any True Christian who reads the bible will be straight on the phone to the girls father with the good news to expect a lump sum (a cause of celebration in these recession hit times). I guess the proof of her virginity beforehand may be tricky to prove but some sort of payment should be going to him i'd say.
If people just read the Bible and follow it instead of cherry picking what suits them they will be far better people and Christians.
Now, i'd better go and let the wife out of the garden shed. She's been menstruating for four days and hasn't been allowed in the house but now she is no longer unclean she can come in and do the housework. |
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10/12/2011 12:22:49 PM · #111 |
| uum u should probably duck when you open the shed door....hope you don't own a pick axe. |
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10/12/2011 12:35:36 PM · #112 |
| Hmmm, Creation of life is not wrong. It is natural. What is wrong is that people do not value it as it was intended. If only one in a 100 million people could have children, and the world was headed for extinction, responses would be completely different (christians and non-christians). |
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10/12/2011 12:46:40 PM · #113 |
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
I think people are forgetting just who is the victim in all this.
If a man seduces a virgin not betrothed and lies with her, he shall surely pay a dowry for her to become his wife. If her father refuses to give her to him, he shall still pay money equivalent to the dowry of virgins. Exodus 22:16
This girls father should get his dowry, baby or not. Any True Christian who reads the bible will be straight on the phone to the girls father with the good news to expect a lump sum (a cause of celebration in these recession hit times). I guess the proof of her virginity beforehand may be tricky to prove but some sort of payment should be going to him i'd say.
If people just read the Bible and follow it instead of cherry picking what suits them they will be far better people and Christians.
Now, i'd better go and let the wife out of the garden shed. She's been menstruating for four days and hasn't been allowed in the house but now she is no longer unclean she can come in and do the housework. |
HA! I highly doubt she was a virgin!! |
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10/12/2011 12:48:42 PM · #114 |
Originally posted by sinistral_leo:
Originally posted by Cory:
That line of logic is no good. Just because something didn't happen sooner, doesn't mean it's not going to happen. There may be some sort of logical sequitur with your roommate's situation here. :)
In the end, the thread's entire debate revolves around your religion, how the hell did you expect that it shouldn't come up for discussion?
And before you argue that it's not about religion, let me assure you, it is... entirely. |
You are wrong Cory,
He only stated he went to a Christian school to convey the point that there is a contract in place regarded the prohibition of premarital sex.
"I attend a Christian school here in Florida and one of the rules here is you can not have premarital sex (you sign a contract saying that you won't). He walks in tonight around 1:00am here. He notices I am still awake and starts to spill the news... "
It was not his intention to bring the actual religion into the thread, it was everyone else (including you) who misinterpreted his point. His post would not make sense without that statement. |
Leo, the bold is unneeded. Thanks.
And I am not wrong sir. You are. Here's why: Any discussion that has, at it's core, a dispute that is religiously based, then the entire thread is, by it's very nature, inherently religious. |
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10/12/2011 01:01:37 PM · #115 |
I guess I must just be missing a whole bunch of things......Marko, take another look at this situation.
This guy did wrong, on multiple levels, and this is not judgement.
1. He broke his agreement/pact/covenant with the university.
2. He possibly got a young woman pregnant because of his disregard for the consequences.
3. He seems to be MORE concerned about getting kicked out of school than this young woman's plight.
4. He unloaded this on you. Doesn't this, to a certain extent, obligate you to pass this along? This was not reasonable for him to do this to you.
He needs to excuse himself from the university. This, I am assuming, is a place where honesty, values, and ethics are held in high regard. He did not make a pact to not get caught.....He made a pact *not* to have re-marital sex.
He needs to step up to the plate and do the right thing.....for himself, for you, for the integrity of the university, and most importantly, for the young woman.
Anything other than that is unacceptable. This situation is not about you....you cannot help this young man. What has to be done has to come from within him. He has placed you in a bad position by involving you in his secret.
I don't get all the back and forth.....Marko, I feel bad for you getting sucked into this young man's problems......all self-induced, at that.
Message edited by author 2011-10-12 13:03:49.
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10/12/2011 01:06:32 PM · #116 |
Originally posted by TheDruid:
Hmmm, Creation of life is not wrong. It is natural. What is wrong is that people do not value it as it was intended. If only one in a 100 million people could have children, and the world was headed for extinction, responses would be completely different (christians and non-christians). |
What was the name of that movie? Dang. Can't recall it...
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10/12/2011 01:08:17 PM · #117 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by TheDruid:
Hmmm, Creation of life is not wrong. It is natural. What is wrong is that people do not value it as it was intended. If only one in a 100 million people could have children, and the world was headed for extinction, responses would be completely different (christians and non-christians). |
What was the name of that movie? Dang. Can't recall it... |
Children Of Men? Based on the P.D James book. Great film i thought.
Message edited by author 2011-10-12 13:08:32. |
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10/12/2011 01:11:57 PM · #118 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Cory:
Oh, and I generally do dislike the human race, and this sort of behavior is just one of the reasons. There are however, a few islands of humanity which I do care for, deeply. |
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
Maybe Christians fall on their face so often because they aim for a high standard? |
There is a good reason the antelope do not graze close to predators. And it's funny that so many who aim so much "lower" do hit so much higher, don't you think? Actually, I take offense to your entire statement, from the implication that pagans are the worst example of love, to your statement that Christians aim for a high standard - what makes your standard so high? High implies goodness, rightness, and a load of other positive connotations...
Let me tell you how I view that very same standard : Impossible-to the point of causing all followers to be hypocrites. Why not a more reasonable standard?
My analogy is this: It's like stopping smoking because your wife wants you to, or stopping smoking because you want to. One will always be a fight, the other is a true joy - why Christians insist on making a fight out of everything just baffles the shit out of me.
Still, the ones like Marko are admirable, if only because he's succeeding in forcing himself to listen to what he's been told, but I'd be shocked to learn that he wasn't struggling with it every day. |
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10/12/2011 01:16:34 PM · #119 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
I guess I must just be missing a whole bunch of things......Marko, take another look at this situation.
This guy did wrong, on multiple levels, and this is not judgement.
1. He broke his agreement/pact/covenant with the university.
2. He possibly got a young woman pregnant because of his disregard for the consequences.
3. He seems to be MORE concerned about getting kicked out of school than this young woman's plight.
4. He unloaded this on you. Doesn't this, to a certain extent, obligate you to pass this along? This was not reasonable for him to do this to you.
He needs to excuse himself from the university. This, I am assuming, is a place where honesty, values, and ethics are held in high regard. He did not make a pact to not get caught.....He made a pact *not* to have re-marital sex.
He needs to step up to the plate and do the right thing.....for himself, for you, for the integrity of the university, and most importantly, for the young woman.
Anything other than that is unacceptable. This situation is not about you....you cannot help this young man. What has to be done has to come from within him. He has placed you in a bad position by involving you in his secret.
I don't get all the back and forth.....Marko, I feel bad for you getting sucked into this young man's problems......all self-induced, at that. |
+1.
Especially the part that he needs to excuse himself from the university. I suggest that you tell him he has 24 hours to notify the Dean himself, and then you're going to do it for him - after all, it is only right, and you would be doing a disservice to yourself, and all of the other good students there if he were allowed to stay. Hell, I say run the place broke - since no-one is listening to the contract, then they all need to be removed from the school... When no-one is left to pay the bills I'm betting they'll fix that silly little contract thing right fast. I'd LOVE to see someone shoot this system of hypocrisy down, and I'd damn sure respect the person who did so from a position of honest indignation, as you Marko, are actually entitled to here. |
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10/12/2011 01:17:21 PM · #120 |
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by TheDruid:
Hmmm, Creation of life is not wrong. It is natural. What is wrong is that people do not value it as it was intended. If only one in a 100 million people could have children, and the world was headed for extinction, responses would be completely different (christians and non-christians). |
What was the name of that movie? Dang. Can't recall it... |
Children Of Men? Based on the P.D James book. Great film i thought. |
That's the one! I seem to remember thinking it was a good watch. The scene where there was the big battle than the girl walked out with the baby and everybody stopped in awe was powerful. |
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10/12/2011 01:22:57 PM · #121 |
You just have a very warped view of Christianity, Cory. Failing a standard is not hypocrisy. A good quote from wiki...
Hypocrisy is not simply failing to practice those virtues that one preaches. Samuel Johnson made this point when he wrote about the misuse of the charge of "hypocrisy" in Rambler No. 14:
Originally posted by Samuel Johnson, english author and poet:
Nothing is more unjust, however common, than to charge with hypocrisy him that expresses zeal for those virtues which he neglects to practice; since he may be sincerely convinced of the advantages of conquering his passions, without having yet obtained the victory, as a man may be confident of the advantages of a voyage, or a journey, without having courage or industry to undertake it, and may honestly recommend to others, those attempts which he neglects himself. |
Thus, an alcoholic's advocating temperance, for example, would not be considered an act of hypocrisy as long as the alcoholic made no pretense of constant sobriety.
Message edited by author 2011-10-12 13:26:06. |
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10/12/2011 01:28:17 PM · #122 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
You just have a very warped view of Christianity, Cory. Failing a standard is not hypocrisy. A good quote from wiki...
Hypocrisy is not simply failing to practice those virtues that one preaches. Samuel Johnson made this point when he wrote about the misuse of the charge of "hypocrisy" in Rambler No. 14:
Originally posted by Samuel Johnson, english author and poet:
Nothing is more unjust, however common, than to charge with hypocrisy him that expresses zeal for those virtues which he neglects to practice; since he may be sincerely convinced of the advantages of conquering his passions, without having yet obtained the victory, as a man may be confident of the advantages of a voyage, or a journey, without having courage or industry to undertake it, and may honestly recommend to others, those attempts which he neglects himself.
Thus, an alcoholic's advocating temperance, for example, would not be considered an act of hypocrisy as long as the alcoholic made no pretense of constant sobriety. |
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Fancy quote there Doc..
Unfortunately many Christians do make exactly such a pretense.
Furthermore, if you say "It is good when someone" that is fine, no hypocrisy... If, however, you say "You should", "You must", etc. that is where the problem comes in... Problem is, I rarely ever hear a Christian talk in the "It is good when"... More often than not they speak in imperatives and commandments.
Let me help you with a definition instead of a quote... I know, us non-believers always wanting to work with fact instead of emotion... I know, I know...
Hypocrisy:
Noun
The practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.
ETA:
A far less reliable source, that matches your chosen source material better...
(1) A person who engages in the same behaviors he condemns others for.
(2) A person who professes certain ideals, but fails to live up to them.
(3) A person who holds other people to higher standards than he holds himself.
The only reliable product of an organized religion is a flock of hypocrites who feel that only *their* hypocrisy is divinely sanctioned.
-----
Clearly, the real meaning of the word, the popular usage, and the common understanding is that, despite your ability to find quotes to support yourself, it is a weak and thinly populated position.
Message edited by author 2011-10-12 13:31:26. |
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10/12/2011 01:33:34 PM · #123 |
Ya, wiki, what a bunch of garbage, eh?
So, just to be clear. You don't have hypocrisy in your own life? I don't want to put words in your mouth. |
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10/12/2011 01:35:28 PM · #124 |
First off thank you all for your input here. The first three pages were well worth the read!
I am no longer going to participate in this thread because I feel as if it has not been kept on topic. If you would like to PM me about the situation feel free to do so.
Again thank you all for your time.
Good day to all. |
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10/12/2011 01:36:18 PM · #125 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Leo, the bold is unneeded. Thanks.
And I am not wrong sir. You are. Here's why: Any discussion that has, at it's core, a dispute that is religiously based, then the entire thread is, by it's very nature, inherently religious. |
Ummm, You're welcome??
I bolded the text because it is hard to decypher what was a quote and what was mine.
Like I said, The OP was not about religion, stubborn people like you inflated it. You bashing a religion isn't helping anything, besides the personal satisfaction you get of trying to get a rise out of others while sitting behind your protective computer screen.
Just because people honed in on that particular topic isn't Marko's fault. Why couldn't the dispute be about how you hate Virgin's or College, or Roommates, or unprotected sex. No, Religion brings drama, heck, it brings wars! DPCers love drama! Typical for you to follow suit... |
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