B+W XS-Pro MrC Nano Kaesemann Circular Polarizer

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 12-24mm f/4.0G IF-ED

10/05/2011 11:11:47 PM · #1

I need a new, better polarizer...

I want good quality...I do like B+W filters, when they don't get stuck on the lens...I'm considering, this:

B+W 77mm XS-Pro Digital MrC Nano Kaesemann Circular Polarizer

But wow, that seems like a lot of money for the polarizer. People say it's worth it, but is that just cognitive dissonance?

I'm also considering this...which people say is also really good (just doesn't have the name):

Marumi DHG Super Circular Polarizer CPL PL.D 77 77mm Filter Japan

What are your thoughts...I considered the more expensive one because I figure it will last a long time...but then I'll worry about dropping it a lot more!

jbsmithana

Nikon D300

10/05/2011 11:20:02 PM · #2

Why not stick with the Nikon? I use and think it produces great results.
Nikon

10/05/2011 11:30:07 PM · #3

What is the current polarizer you're using?

10/05/2011 11:37:19 PM · #4

I have the Cokin polarizer--I have one for my Cokin holder, but I find it hard to adjust and it vignettes at wide angle.

My understanding was that the Kaesemann Polarizers let in more light. The users give them such glowing reviews.

10/05/2011 11:43:25 PM · #5

I just ask because I have a Hoya that I've never had reason to complain about. It's thin and it's made well. It's about the same cost as the Marumi. Available here.
Hoya also makes a nicer, hardened glass 8 coated version that is about the cost of the B&W one.
I've never had complaints, and I use mine a good deal. Not really sure how that person got their copy to not rotate- mine has been in blowing sand, dirt, all sorts of inclement weather. Even gotten partially iced over, and it's fine.
I know the reviews are glowing for Kaesemann, and I'm sure it's a great product as well, but I shared your "whoa that's a lot." I looked at them myself. If you're curious about light loss, I can take a couple test shots of open sky tomorrow if you'd like.

10/06/2011 12:16:44 AM · #6

Yes, the Hoya looks good.

I was interested in any objective tests anyone had found...and I just found one. Though the article is a bit complex and I skipped over all the theory ;)

Here's the summary...

//www.lenstip.com/115.4-article-Polarizing_filters_test_Results_and_summary.html

I'm actually still looking at it, but it is interesting that the Marumi tied the B+W Kaesemann for first place.

ETA: Well from what I gather, performance wise, the Marumi looks as good as the B+W. I suspect it may not last as long, and they weren't looking at the version with the new Nano coating, which does sound like it repels water pretty well (which is good because when I use it there's often a water spray!) But I may cheap out given the performance similarities....

Message edited by author 2011-10-06 00:32:30.

10/06/2011 12:51:58 AM · #7

Hmm. Interesting reading there, Neil. Thanks a lot for finding/posting that.
I'll have to look at the packaging for mine to see exactly which it is, as I don't recall if its the HMC or PRO1, as I know I have some of the PRO1 Hoya's, just not sure if it's my cir-pol or not.

10/06/2011 09:49:38 AM · #8

Wow, my hat's off to that guy! Some very well-constructed tests, and a great write-up. Thanks so much for posting this Neil!
I particularly liked that he showed the images for the homogeneity test. If you're going to use a polarizer on a telephoto lens, it's a very important consideration, and one that is rarely addressed.
Based on that article, I would not hesitate to buy either the B+W or the Marumi. All depends on whether the nano-coating is a big benefit. For me, it wouldn't be, but I don't shoot all that much in wet or moist conditions.

ETA: All we have to do to confirm that there is a *big* difference between the best and worst filters is to look at the flare and scattering tests. Huge difference.

Message edited by author 2011-10-06 09:51:24.

Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G

10/06/2011 10:13:37 AM · #9

I went ahead and ordered the Marumi super DHG, thanks to the excellent rating in the review. BTW, Marumi claims to have a water repellant coating as well.

vikas

Apple iPhone 13

10/06/2011 10:27:03 AM · #10

Thanks for posting all this research - I ordered a Marumi as well - hoping to get it before the fall colors are past peak (this weekend that is) :)

Originally posted by Neil:

I went ahead and ordered the Marumi super DHG, thanks to the excellent rating in the review. BTW, Marumi claims to have a water repellant coating as well.

10/12/2011 07:22:23 PM · #11

Hmmm...I got the filter. I haven't tried it outdoors yet, but I just did a light test indoors. Supposedly, this filter passes more light than a conventional filter.

Well I just compared it to my Cokin Polarizer...just indoors, on a tripod, just using the meter reading.

Whereas my Cokin measured I needed a 1/2.5" second exposure at F4.2, the Marumi measured 1" at 4.2.

In other words, it was letting in 1/4 the light of my Cokin! I'm a bit surprised by that...Maybe my cheap Cokin is a better filter than I thought :)

Message edited by author 2011-10-12 19:22:43.

10/12/2011 07:45:04 PM · #12

Man, that's a 1.3-stop difference! If it's really that much denser, you should be able to see it just by holding them both up in front of a white computer screen. I'm interested to hear your impressions when you have a chance to test it outdoors.

10/12/2011 08:42:02 PM · #13

What's your total difference from base exposure for the Marumi?

Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G

10/12/2011 09:16:55 PM · #14

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

What's your total difference from base exposure for the Marumi?

Duh, should have tried that! I will have to test later...everything's already put away :(

vikas

Apple iPhone 13

10/18/2011 10:43:12 AM · #15

any updates (review) of the marumi?

I had canceled my previous order as it was not being delivered on time. Since I trust your feedback more than some website, I will wait for your review before ordering it again.

Originally posted by Neil:

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
What's your total difference from base exposure for the Marumi?

Duh, should have tried that! I will have to test later...everything's already put away :(

10/18/2011 11:16:13 AM · #16

I took it with me on my recent trip, so here's an update for you.

I am not sure this is entirely unique to this filter, but here are some problems I encountered.

I was out on a warm but very humid day. I found whenever I put the lens cap on the camera, and pulled it off, there was a consistent "pattern" of moist fog on the filter when I removed it (I think related to the way the Nikon cap is molded. It was a pain...it did not dissapate quickly, leaving me to wipe it each time. But perhaps that would have been true of another filter too under those conditions. But read below.

I also found that wiping the filter with my microfiber cleaning cloth seemed to smear stuff around, it was not "easy" to clean as they claim. I got frustrated with this, and eventually switched to my Cokin filter on my main lens (and put the Marumi on a lens I was using less).

I think I might have better off with the B+W, but I don't know if it would have had these issues.

Actual performance in terms of being a nice thin filter, and polarizing, were fine. I am not sure it's actually better than my Cokin (though by letting less light in, it's actually better for waterfalls--it serves as a slight ND filter too). Given what I feel are some false advertising claims, I may try to return it/exchange it for the B+W. Shame to have to spend that much on a filter, but what the heck. (Though I wonder if I exchange it, and I'm unhappy with the B+W, whether I would be able to return that. I did buy it from a pretty good company...2filter. They've been great in the past when I've had issues.

Nuno

Nikon D700

10/18/2011 01:08:39 PM · #17

I don't have a polarizer bt I do have the 77mm ND 10 stops from B+W (the single coated not the multicoated) and the quality is awsome.

i think like with the lens you get what you pay for and cheap sometime scan be very expensive when you aren't satisfyed.

10/18/2011 08:55:57 PM · #18

Originally posted by Neil:

I was out on a warm but very humid day. I found whenever I put the lens cap on the camera, and pulled it off, there was a consistent "pattern" of moist fog on the filter when I removed it (I think related to the way the Nikon cap is molded. It was a pain...it did not dissapate quickly, leaving me to wipe it each time. But perhaps that would have been true of another filter too under those conditions.

I've used various lens caps on my polarizer and never had the problem you describe. While I live in a relatively dry region, I had no issues shooting in the rainforests of New Zealand.
Was your setup acclimated to the conditions completely?
I will sometimes have issues shooting in the mountains when it's very cold. I've found that removing the filter and reapplying it with the cold dry high altitude air behind it helps this. In your scenario, it could have been that your filter was colder than the air. If this is the case, I would try warming it in a pocket and then reapplying.

10/18/2011 09:03:31 PM · #19

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

Originally posted by Neil:

I was out on a warm but very humid day. I found whenever I put the lens cap on the camera, and pulled it off, there was a consistent "pattern" of moist fog on the filter when I removed it (I think related to the way the Nikon cap is molded. It was a pain...it did not dissapate quickly, leaving me to wipe it each time. But perhaps that would have been true of another filter too under those conditions.

I've used various lens caps on my polarizer and never had the problem you describe. While I live in a relatively dry region, I had no issues shooting in the rainforests of New Zealand.
Was your setup acclimated to the conditions completely?
I will sometimes have issues shooting in the mountains when it's very cold. I've found that removing the filter and reapplying it with the cold dry high altitude air behind it helps this. In your scenario, it could have been that your filter was colder than the air. If this is the case, I would try warming it in a pocket and then reapplying.

The equipment was definitely out for a long time when it was happening...I was out for hours. The worst part is the residue that seemed to stay on the filter when I was cleaning it in the field. I may do some "smear testing" and then I may try to return it if it's no better than my inexpensive Cokin filter.

alexlky

10/18/2011 10:11:17 PM · #20

A good CPL will cut reflection much better. Interesting to know if you could test both on water surface, the distance how far the filter cut the reflection.

08/27/2013 08:41:16 PM · #21

Just bumped into this old thread of mine during a search and I thought I'd follow up on this...

I finally broke down and bought the B+W 77mm Kaesemann Circular Polarizer with Multi-Resistant Coating when the price came down. At least it seemed to come down, but mainly I gave up on spending on the Nano coated version!

I still have the Marumi...it might be useful on a second lens so I don't have to switch (as I did last week) when switching lenses). It's definitely "darker" than the B+W.

The B+W is a very nice filter, as usual.

ETA: Looks like the nano pricing is down as well: B+W 77mm XS-Pro Kaesemann Circular Polarizer with Multi-Resistant Nano Coating

Message edited by author 2013-08-27 20:42:58.

08/27/2013 09:20:11 PM · #22

Hmmm. It's interesting that they don't seem to offer the nano coating in the non-Kaesemann version. AFAIK, the only thing the Kaesemann version gives you is the very high quality ring and sealing between the glass and ring. For those that really need that, perhaps it's worth the cash. Most of us, I suspect, really do not. I know I don't. But the nano coating may well have some advantages, I suppose.

08/27/2013 11:34:54 PM · #23

Originally posted by kirbic:

I thought the advantage of the Kaesemann technology was that it lost less light.

The B+W site talks about efficiency a bit:

The â��high-endâ�� polarizing foils of the KÃ¤semann-type filters are neutral in color, they have a higher efficiency than conventional polarizing foils and they are cemented between high-grade plano-parallel optical glass. The resulting sandwich is then precision-polished again to achieve highly accurate plano-parallel surfaces. Subsequently they are edge-sealed to protect the foil against humidity. Discriminating photographers regard the B+W KÃ¤semann-Type Polarizing Filter to be the very best of all polarizing filters. They are well suited for applications that require the highest possible imaging quality, especially with high-speed telephoto lenses and apochromatic lenses.