Young photographers - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

09/14/2011 10:45:02 AM · #1

I am young... I feel like I don't get respect walking around with my camera next to someone who has a camera but is middle aged. For example last night I was at a volleyball game taking photos for my brother and for warm ups I was next to the court with my 18-55mm sitting on the floor looking up as they hit the ball. The ref told me to leave that part of the court but then an older guy than me (roughly 50 or 60) walked up with his DSLR and did pretty much the same thing I was doing and the ref actually went up to talk to him as he was taking photos as if nothing was wrong.

This is one of only 12 photos I got of the players during warm ups before the ref kicked me off.

Am I going insane or do people not treat younger photographers with respect just because they are young? Chances are I knew more about photography than the guy because he was using "auto" mode... Now that does not mean that he didn't know more but someone who uses "Auto" over manual inside of a gym is in my opinion not very in-tuned with his setting on the camera.

Someone put me in my place if I am going insane here...

Louis

Nikon D800

09/14/2011 10:56:42 AM · #2

Maybe the ref knew the old guy. I'll be 47 in a few days, and personally, I don't feel respected with my camera no matter where I am. I think it's partly because cameras, including DSLRs, are so ubiquitous. Everyone has one. You can't walk down the street of any medium-sized city, or in any decent public park, without tripping over someone's telephoto kit lens. It's kind of ridiculous. Cameras are meant to be difficult and intimidating. Everyone should NOT have one. :P

So, you're not nuts, you're just one out of countless numbers of others with a camera. My guess is that the ref knew the guy, and didn't know you, so you got the bum's rush and he was allowed to stay.

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

09/14/2011 11:02:33 AM · #3

This is not the first time something like this has happened. Not so much as running me out of somewhere but something like me walking around during a game taking photos and getting dirty looks by people like "why are you taking photos? You think you are cool with that big camera?"

Those types of looks.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

09/14/2011 11:03:18 AM · #4

I doubt it has anything to do with age.

Did you talk to the ref/officials beforehand about access, where to shoot from etc.? Maybe the older guy did or maybe he's the league or venue's "official" photographer.

If you had done your work beforehand, I doubt you would have been asked to leave.

Louis

Nikon D800

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

09/14/2011 11:05:35 AM · #5

Well, DO you think you're cool with that big camera? And, incidentally, who DO you think you are? ;)

I always feel looked at when I take pictures in public. I've gotten over it though. Nobody actually cares; it's all in your head.

yakatme

Lytro Illum Light Field Digital

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

09/14/2011 11:06:30 AM · #6

You're not going insane. Things like this happen all the time. People make judgements based on what they see and act on it. It's not fair and that's why there is so much controversy over law enforcement acting on profiling people. In the ref's head, he had no reason to think that you weren't just a punk kid who might get in the way.

Interesting that you summed up the 'older guy' based only on your observations also. You seem to have made a similar assumption based on different criteria, his camera set to "auto" mode.

Another interesting thought...if I had seen you I would not have considered you a serious photographer either. Please don't take offense because that's not my intent. I simply want to illustrate how people make judgements based on criteria that, for good reasons or bad, mean something to them. I always look at the lens that another photographer is using for the scene that the photographer intends to capture. These days, most DSLRs are good enough for many purposes, it's the lens that makes the difference. I can spot a quality lens suitable for capturing action in low light a mile away and it's the first thing that I look at when I see a photographer. I can tell by the shape before I can identify the brand if it is capable of a large aperture as compared to it's zoom. If I had seen you shooting indoors with an 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 lens then I wouldn't have taken you seriously as a photographer either. I might also be wrong for making this assumption/judgement, however. But that's just me.

Everybody is predisposed to judgement based on their life experiences. Now, what do you do about?

Get old. As you pointed out it makes a difference.

Confidently act the part. How you carry yourself makes something of a difference.

Get an ID card that says that you are a photographer, or make one up. Most people won't examine it. My local camera club sells ours for $25. I've been meaning to get one because the other members swear by them in that the cards get them access to places that they normally wouldn't be able to go....and it's only a silly camera club ID with our picture on it. You could also join PPA or another association and add to the ID's hanging on your shirt.

Message edited by author 2011-09-14 11:07:08.

MelonMusketeer

Nikon D7000

Nikon MF 50mm f/1.4

09/14/2011 11:07:47 AM · #7

Ditto what

Louis said in his first post, at least the part that the ref probably knew the guy if their ages were similar. You may have to wait until they have younger refs at a game. You should have moved back into position, and put the ref on the spot about having to run his buddy off the shooting position or to allow you to both shoot side by side. It's a bummer that you didn't get to continue shooting.
If you are interested in getting the action shots, you or your brother could contact the school paper or web coordinator to show them what your shots look like, and see about getting an access or "press" pass for sharing some future photos with them. It might even get you comp tickets to the games.

Message edited by author 2011-09-14 11:09:05.

NiallOTuama

Google Pixel 2

09/14/2011 11:10:31 AM · #8

Grow a beard. It adds on a few years :-)

I tend to say I'm a freelance photographer for independent media if people ask me to move. Prepare your story before you go in so you won't have to make it up on the spot.

amsterdamman

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

09/14/2011 11:10:34 AM · #9

I think it is more of a assumed GWC syndrome. Guy (Gal) With Camera. If the ref didn't know you and knew the other photog that will impact it. But also, if you are just a amateur taking images, and not from the press or known to be a reporter / photojournalist then he is right to keep you back and out of the way. It is one of my favorite perks, getting to sit closer to the games, and go where even the writers and journalists are prevented from going. Sounds like the ref knew him personally, and assumed your a GWC.
The DSLR camera swinging a big white lens has gotten me through many gates with less questions. I regularly will happen to be taking it out of my bag as we approach the security, they send us to the better parking quicker that way. So, yes, that is also a factor, and the 18-55mm wont command the same auto respect.

Be known, next time go up to the ref and tell him who you are, and that you are from the team and are taking shots for them for the web site etc, introduce yourself, start it off polite and respectful. He will tell you where he wants to to go or not to go. Do as he says, and the next game after than he will be chatting with you. I know many refs now.

Respect is earned in time, but should be given up front.

KristinaG

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS

09/14/2011 11:28:07 AM · #10

I definitely judge people based on the equipment they use and what they are using it for, but also other factors such as dress, and demeanor.
Honestly, the demeanor is the most telling. Photographers act a certain way, while hobbyists act another. I have found that equipment does NOT necessarily mean anything. This summer I worked as a camp photographer. Among the staff there were 10 people total who had DSLR cameras. Of all of them, I had the CHEAPEST OLDEST camera. I had an Xti, while most of them had T2is that they had just picked up and were using in Auto mode. However, I really felt like it was obvious that I was the photographer and not them, based on the way I acted while taking pictures, what I took pictures of, and where I stood to get the best angle and picture. Zoom lens also DEFINITELY help. They look important.

As far as age goes, you can give yourself credibility by talking to people. Old people give themselves credibility by just looking wise and experienced, but that doesn't mean we young people aren't capable of getting the same credibility. I frequently pull the "I am shooting for a photography class, can I please sit here...blablabla...I'll stay out of your way" even though its a total lie because I haven't taken any photography classes in a while. I have yet to be turned down using that line (as long as I asked about something where it was feasible for me to go to). Just saying that I am in a photography class gives me credibility that a random kid with a camera would not have. It also promotes people taking pity on me and making exceptions, since its for a class not for personal gain. Although, being a young FEMALE photographer definitely does play a role. I make sure to ask men for exceptions and not women, they are so much more likely to give them ;-)

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

09/14/2011 12:58:17 PM · #11

Originally posted by NiallOTuama:

Grow a beard. It adds on a few years :-)

Lol. If only I could! Facial hair is not something I grow very easily.

As for everyone else's comments. Thank you for putting into retrospect for me. I thought for sure I was being disrespected as a younger photographer.

I agree with everyone here who talked about equipment and how it deems respect over other equipment. My little 18-55mm lens was the only one that I have that seemed fitting for the angle that I wanted. (my 50mm 1.8 was and still is being borrowed by a friend). I used my 55-200mm during the game while sitting in the front row of the bleachers so it was not like I didn't get any shots of the game but I really wanted to get a wide angle close up during warm ups because I knew I wouldn't be able to during the actual match.

Originally posted by Fiora:

I make sure to ask men for exceptions and not women, they are so much more likely to give them ;-)

I should start asking the females to make exceptions then. Lol!

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

09/14/2011 01:01:36 PM · #12

Did you tell the ref you were shooting for the team? It is the ref's job to keep everyone safe, and shooting from close in on the netline during hitting practice is dangerous. Had you let him know that you understood the dangers to yourself and to the hitters, and were there on assignment, he would have done his job, and you could have continued with yours.

And of course in some part you were being singled out because you look young. It does amaze me the crap I can get away with because I look like I could be the father of most of the guys who work security. I get into places I don't really belong because I expect to get in, I walk up to the guy who looks to be in charge of security and ask where press is setting up, and never get asked for my ID. Is it fair? No. But it is what it is. There is an expectation when you look old that you know what you are doing, you have the permissions and you know the risks, and that you might be friends with someone important. You can cultivate that same attitude of entitlement without having white hair and a beard, but it sure is easier with them.

IAmEliKatz

Nikon D5

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

09/14/2011 01:48:26 PM · #13

I feel its also how you look. Depending on the event or location, How you dress could mean getting in vs getting yelled at. I was recently walking around NYC and I managed to get into a a few Press only areas by looking like I was meant to be there.

Then again, I was trying to take pictures (I forget where or what) but a security guard came over and told me to put my camera away (Nikon d50 w/ 18-105 lens) which bothered me as other people around me were using P&S cameras with no problems.. His response.. We don't allow professional cameras... Excuse me WHAT NOW?!??! After going back and forth for 10 minutes I spoke to his supervisor trying to be allowed to use my gear when I out of sheer annoyance I played "Fine, If you would like to be the one for not allowing photographs to be taken for Time Magazine then be my guest. Let me just get your names so I can report back to my boss who will call your boss who will allow me to photograph anyway and will make your jobs that much more enjoyable.

I won.

Message edited by author 2011-09-14 13:48:40.

hajeka

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS USM

09/14/2011 02:30:26 PM · #14

Don't blame the old, e.g me :) Guess is just a matter of life experience. Just ignore the people who think they are something.

09/14/2011 03:34:23 PM · #15

I don't blame the old at all. I blame the people who are not respecting the young.

I have so much respect for people who are older than me and have been doing photography longer than I have. Shoot... My whole WPL team is older than me and I have so much respect for them!

I wonder who the youngest (active) person on this site is...

nB maybe?

I wonder if he can chime in and see if he feels the same way...

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 85mm f/1.4G

09/14/2011 04:29:06 PM · #16

Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

Good day... i sometimes feel out of place especially when im using say the 100-400 and standing next to adults with point and shoots. It tends to get some stares..
But i feel like if i wanted to photograph something im not at the age where it would really be considered "suspicious," just weird...

JamesA

Nikon D800

09/14/2011 04:29:35 PM · #17

Was your white balance on auto? :)

KristinaG

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS

09/14/2011 04:57:37 PM · #18

Originally posted by nB:

Dang, I am drooling over all of your camera equipment! Do your parents buy you all that? ;-)
I am such a broke college student, and I even have a job! Lol, sad day.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

09/14/2011 05:00:03 PM · #19

Originally posted by Fiora:

Originally posted by nB:

Good day... i sometimes feel out of place especially when im using say the 100-400 and standing next to adults with point and shoots. It tends to get some stares..
But i feel like if i wanted to photograph something im not at the age where it would really be considered "suspicious," just weird...

Dang, I am drooling over all of your camera equipment! Do your parents buy you all that? ;-)
I am such a broke college student, and I even have a job! Lol, sad day.

haha no, i have bought almost all my equipment by myself, although the 100-400 was with a little help from my parents;)
and my first camera (t1i) was a birthday present, so i guess that doesnt count..

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

09/14/2011 06:01:14 PM · #20

To summarize, get a fake beard and a pro lens, check your white balance, get an id card and stop giving a shit.

09/14/2011 06:39:54 PM · #21

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

To summarize, get a fake beard and a pro lens, check your white balance, get an id card and stop giving a shit.

yes

09/14/2011 06:46:04 PM · #22

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

To summarize, get a fake beard and a pro lens, check your white balance, get an id card and stop giving a shit.

Pretty much...

nB - Do you ever go to places just to take photos where other photographers are? If so do you get almost talked down to when you are there?

I just feel like when I get older people will think I am more intelligent about photography.

I also feel like if I wanted to actually start getting jobs as say a wedding photographer that my age would put a hold on that. (Not that I am willing to do a wedding just yet but it is an example).

Confidence is key, I understand that but I mean... Age has to do with it as well.. Am I right?

09/14/2011 06:54:20 PM · #23

haha not really. Most people just look at me and must be thinking: that kid just picked up his professional parents camera gear for fun.
I'm ok with that;) not like it really matters. But i think if it is harder to get a job being in your younger years than your older years, unless the family (say if you are doing a wedding) want a more contemporary style of photography, in which case you might have the upper hand. just my 2c i have no idea ive never tried to photograph a wedding;) actually will be helping out for my music teachers wedding in november though!

09/14/2011 07:01:58 PM · #24

Maybe I am just going insane... Lol.

Thank you all for putting it all into retrospect for me. :)